Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[JREF2010]

One of the few times you make half a point correctly. Many here would make a silly argument (if she was caught on video at Q's it would have just meant she forgot she had been there) but the chance that it is Raf's is zero. If it came up pure Raf and was done by Steffi no one should believe it.

There is no reason why they need to match the DNA. If the DNA didn't match Rudi or Giacomo then the prosecution would have some splayin' to do. Clearly at a minimum the Italian justice system would look like a total joke again for not having tested it during one of the trials.

IIRC some general information about the donors heritage would be known from the DNA. If it was Albanian,...

Same with waiting 10yrs to check the cusp/handle area of the knife or even remove the handle. Why wasnt it done early on? Or maybe, the Perugia Pack and people in power never in their wildest dreams thought they would have to explain their accusations and actually prove their scenarios with the truth, instead of fictional ever changing scenarios of what happened and never a solid timeline that included their fantasy fiction detective work.

Stefonani failed miserably, and I wont even mention the rings on Raf's shoes that were not even verified correctly, wasnt it Raffaeles little cousin who found that out?

Italy Perugia Pack has a different definition for experts than most the world does, like the COmputer Experts who destroyed not one, but several hardrives?

 

[TruthCalls]

Personally I'm dubious both about it being semen and about it being Guede's (as Grinder says, if it is his it's strange and uncharacteristic that not only did he not make up something to explain it, he explicitly denies that it's his).

But even if both those things are true, isn't the problem with your theory about "the end of the assault" that the sequence had to be: semen gets on pillow > Guede steps in it > Meredith placed on pillow? He couldn't step in it after she was lying on top of it, so it had to have gotten onto the pillow earlier.

I'm agnostic as to what it was, however, I do think if it was tested and wasn't semen then that would have been disclosed and that would have been the end of it. So either it wasn't tested or it was and the investigators chose not to disclose the results. Either way, it's suspicious.

I'm not attempting to suggest it being deposited had to have been the last event of the assault, only that it would suggest Guede took the sexual assault further than he admitted. Each piece of evidence helps to tell the story of what happened. This would be one more piece, once again pointing to Guede, and this one likely occurs further along the timeline.

 

[TruthCalls]

ETA - Oh and have you found any cases where a burglar was caught and then raped and brutally murdered a woman that found him in her place, much less the over one a day you claimed?

According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report, from 2003-2007 there was an annual average of 1,025,520 household burglaries when someone was home, and of that number, 2.2% resulted in rape/sexual assault. By my math that amounts to 22,561 rapes/sexual assaults committed during the commission of a household burglary every year. Granted, this is based on a report by the U.S. Department of Justice, not Italy, but I see no reason to think there would be a significant difference with Italian statistics.

According to a Bureau of Justice St... http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

Granted, this report is not addressing murder but it's clear the regularity of burglaries that result in a sexual assault is alarmingly high. Burglaries that result in one or more murders are also well documented. Linking the sexual assault with murder is a more challenging research that I might spend time on since you seem determined to suggest such crimes don't happen.

 

[bagels]

You'd also need DNA profiles of possible culprits. Think about it. If it matched Raff, you guys would start arguing, so what, Amanda lived there and Raff made out with her on that pillow.

That's why the PGP should have been eager to have it tested before the trials were over instead of making a case based on bloodless chef's knives and underwear shopping or whatever. Your side honestly thought two students were going to spend 30 years in prison for a murder bursting with the forensic traces of random burglar because of a junkie's changing incoherent testimony. Even now if you ask any PGP in the world about the semen stain they will rattle off 20 reasons why the semen found at a sex murder should never be tested instead of going, well I guess in the end it couldn't have hurt and maybe the students wouldn't have gotten away with it....but that would be normal and rational conclusions, which is something I've literally never seen from your side.

 

[acbytesla]

Delete

 

[acbytesla]

I'm sure some with incites into Italian law will let us know. Well I'm sure that some sort of suit could be filed whether it would be successful or not of course is the real question.

I can imagine even at this late date that there would be concern of the honesty of the test or if the cloth has been kept secure.

What we need is a plan the break through PLE garage security and recover the pillow case and send half to lab in a neutral country such as Switzerland.

We need a leader that can think several weeks moves ahead and can smell a rotten copper a block away. Then we can publish a peer reviewed article in Ground Report and case will be changed. Though I don't think it would have impacted the trial, I do think that the media at this stage will impact public thinking on this.

I really don't see how it would reveal anything. I see only 4 possible results.

1. It doesn't test positive for DNA and it changes nothing
2. It tests positive for Rudy's DNA and it changes nothing.
3. It tests positive for unknown DNA and it changes nothing.
4. It tests positive for Raffaele's DNA and ???

Of course if there is any way possible that it could be Raffaele's semen, he wouldn't pursue this. I wouldn't think he would in any circumstances but definitely not if Raffaele thought it was his.

 

[Grinder]

According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report, from 2003-2007 there was an annual average of 1,025,520 household burglaries when someone was home, and of that number, 2.2% resulted in rape/sexual assault. By my math that amounts to 22,561 rapes/sexual assaults committed during the commission of a household burglary every year. Granted, this is based on a report by the U.S. Department of Justice, not Italy, but I see no reason to think there would be a significant difference with Italian statistics.

According to a Bureau of Justice St... http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

Granted, this report is not addressing murder but it's clear the regularity of burglaries that result in a sexual assault is alarmingly high. Burglaries that result in one or more murders are also well documented. Linking the sexual assault with murder is a more challenging research that I might spend time on since you seem determined to suggest such crimes don't happen.

Thank you so much for the effort. My math gets a different result. I am assuming that is a 5 year span 2003-07. 1/5 of that is 205,104 and 2.2% of that is 4518 per year (much higher than I would have guessed) which translates into 12 per day. This should mean that here in Seattle one should occur about once per month and that just doesn't seem right. (Using 1 million people in the greater Seattle area which is a conservative number as the metro area is closer to 3.6 million) I'd ask you to do your area and see if it makes sense to you.

I didn't say they never happened, but I did think your description was over the top. You made it seem that multiple burglaries turned into murder rapes every day. I have no objection to using the US stats even though it does appear we are a more violent country than Italy.

One aspect of what you report is that it doesn't seem (haven't read the link yet) they distinguish between home invasions and second story guys that are caught by the homeowner.

Once again thanks for the effort and I am surprised at the stats.

 

[Grinder]

That's why the PGP should have been eager to have it tested before the trials were over instead of making a case based on bloodless chef's knives and underwear shopping or whatever. Your side honestly thought two students were going to spend 30 years in prison for a murder bursting with the forensic traces of random burglar because of a junkie's changing incoherent testimony. Even now if you ask any PGP in the world about the semen stain they will rattle off 20 reasons why the semen found at a sex murder should never be tested instead of going, well I guess in the end it couldn't have hurt and maybe the students wouldn't have gotten away with it....but that would be normal and rational conclusions, which is something I've literally never seen from your side.

Bagels once we have our leader to liberate the stain perhaps the PGP will kick a few bucks to help get true justice for Meredith. They might add the knife to our list to free so it's hilt could be removed.

Always fascinating how the PGP were on the vanguard of opposing more testing in their quest for justice.

 

[Grinder]

I really don't see how it would reveal anything. I see only 4 possible results.

1. It doesn't test positive for DNA and it changes nothing
2. It tests positive for Rudy's DNA and it changes nothing.
3. It tests positive for unknown DNA and it changes nothing.
4. It tests positive for Raffaele's DNA and ???

Of course if there is any way possible that it could be Raffaele's semen, he wouldn't pursue this. I wouldn't think he would in any circumstances but definitely not if Raffaele thought it was his.

Tesla if it reveals the DNA from semen of someone other than Rudi, Raf or Giacomo, you don't see that this would blow the whole case for the kids being the accomplices? Even if the stain isn't dated by the shoe print on it, what would the explanation be for this third man being there? Are you suggesting that the stain preceded Giacomo and Meredith hadn't washed her sheets for weeks?

 

[Vixen]

Thank you so much for the effort. My math gets a different result. I am assuming that is a 5 year span 2003-07. 1/5 of that is 205,104 and 2.2% of that is 4518 per year (much higher than I would have guessed) which translates into 12 per day. This should mean that here in Seattle one should occur about once per month and that just doesn't seem right. (Using 1 million people in the greater Seattle area which is a conservative number as the metro area is closer to 3.6 million) I'd ask you to do your area and see if it makes sense to you.

I didn't say they never happened, but I did think your description was over the top. You made it seem that multiple burglaries turned into murder rapes every day. I have no objection to using the US stats even though it does appear we are a more violent country than Italy.

One aspect of what you report is that it doesn't seem (haven't read the link yet) they distinguish between home invasions and second story guys that are caught by the homeowner.

Once again thanks for the effort and I am surprised at the stats.

TruthCalls did say "annual average".

 

[Vixen]

Bagels once we have our leader to liberate the stain perhaps the PGP will kick a few bucks to help get true justice for Meredith. They might add the knife to our list to free so it's hilt could be removed.

Always fascinating how the PGP were on the vanguard of opposing more testing in their quest for justice.

The police are answerable to themselves, not PGP or PIP, or even the press. They probably did not consider it seminal fluid, assuming they ran it under ultraviolet, but as Mach says, it was almost certainly vaseline.

The so-called PGP did not oppose testing. It was Bongiorno for Raff who advised her client to keep quiet about it as Raff thought it might be found to be his.

 

[Grinder]

TruthCalls did say "annual average".

By my math that amounts to 22,561 rapes/sexual assaults committed during the commission of a household burglary every year.

I think this is the same thing.

 

[Vixen]

That's why the PGP should have been eager to have it tested before the trials were over instead of making a case based on bloodless chef's knives and underwear shopping or whatever. Your side honestly thought two students were going to spend 30 years in prison for a murder bursting with the forensic traces of random burglar because of a junkie's changing incoherent testimony. Even now if you ask any PGP in the world about the semen stain they will rattle off 20 reasons why the semen found at a sex murder should never be tested instead of going, well I guess in the end it couldn't have hurt and maybe the students wouldn't have gotten away with it....but that would be normal and rational conclusions, which is something I've literally never seen from your side.

Your saying the stain is semen, doesn't make it so, even if there are a hundred of you saying it a hundred times.

Bongiorno put in a late application to Nencini (the second instance court, the appeal court) when she must have been aware it would be dismissed.

Nencini dismissed the application, Massei assessed it as irrelevant.

The purported semen is pure conspiracy theory masquerading as fact, and this thread is awash with it as a consequence of PIP's clutching at any remote straw in their desperate search for "police corruption".

 

[acbytesla]

Tesla if it reveals the DNA from semen of someone other than Rudi, Raf or Giacomo, you don't see that this would blow the whole case for the kids being the accomplices? Even if the stain isn't dated by the shoe print on it, what would the explanation be for this third man being there? Are you suggesting that the stain preceded Giacomo and Meredith hadn't washed her sheets for weeks?

But to the best of my knowledge Giacomo did NOT provide a sample to check it against.

And then even if it wasn't Giacomo, the prosecution argument would be that Meredith wasn't a saint and it's still irrelevant.

 

[Vixen]

I think this is the same thing.

No, the quote was:
According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report, from 2003-2007 there was an annual average of 1,025,520 household burglaries when someone was home

 

[Mr Fied]

The police are answerable to themselves, not PGP or PIP, or even the press. They probably did not consider it seminal fluid, assuming they ran it under ultraviolet, but as Mach says, it was almost certainly vaseline.

The so-called PGP did not oppose testing. It was Bongiorno for Raff who advised her client to keep quiet about it as Raff thought it might be found to be his.

How many more times is this going to be brought up?

A fluid stain was found under a sex attack victim. Any competent police team would have it tested to determine A) If it is bodily fluid and B) If so, can a DNA profile be obtained from the sample.

It has nothing to do with whether the defence wanted it tested or not. The same can be said about the knife, why wasn't the handle dismantled and checked for blood?

Anyone would think the police and prosecution didn't want to find out the results in case it put a spanner in the works of their rock solid case.

 

[acbytesla]

Your saying the stain is semen, doesn't make it so, even if there are a hundred of you saying it a hundred times.

Bongiorno put in a late application to Nencini (the second instance court, the appeal court) when she must have been aware it would be dismissed.

Nencini dismissed the application, Massei assessed it as irrelevant.

The purported semen is pure conspiracy theory masquerading as fact, and this thread is awash with it as a consequence of PIP's clutching at any remote straw in their desperate search for "police corruption".

I sort of agree. That said, there was and is no excuse that it wasn't tested.

 

[Vixen]

But to the best of my knowledge Giacomo did NOT provide a sample to check it against.

And then even if it wasn't Giacomo, the prosecution argument would be that Meredith wasn't a saint and it's still irrelevant.

They will almost certainly have taken a swab of Giacomo Silenzi's DNA from his inside cheek. He was the boyfriend. Key initial suspect.

They would extract DNA from the spermatozoa in the stain, assuming it was bodily fluid. A sample of the matter from Giacomo would not be required.

 

[bagels]

Your saying the stain is semen, doesn't make it so, even if there are a hundred of you saying it a hundred times.

Bongiorno put in a late application to Nencini (the second instance court, the appeal court) when she must have been aware it would be dismissed.

Nencini dismissed the application, Massei assessed it as irrelevant.

The purported semen is pure conspiracy theory masquerading as fact, and this thread is awash with it as a consequence of PIP's clutching at any remote straw in their desperate search for "police corruption".

This post would make a lot more sense if the students were soundly convicted, currently sitting in prison, with all appeals exhausted. Acting as if the prosecution's case wasn't in shambles after Hellmann is not rational and shows an inability to grasp reality. The PIP "won." The final judgement of the highest court is the investigation was a sham. You're the one who is grasping at straws saying it was a mafia conspiracy. Maybe if they had promptly and properly analyzed the apparent semen stain on day one and matched it to Raffaele upon his arrest you would really have something to hold over our heads while the 30 year sentence actually starts ticking away. But it was decided it was more important to dig up witnesses who saw nothing immediately after the murder and get them suddenly remembering incredible key details months to years later. Give me a break.

 

[bagels]

Bagels once we have our leader to liberate the stain perhaps the PGP will kick a few bucks to help get true justice for Meredith. They might add the knife to our list to free so it's hilt could be removed.

Always fascinating how the PGP were on the vanguard of opposing more testing in their quest for justice.

They really think the evidence was overwhelming and the fact that it failed to secure a conviction hasn't dissuaded them in the least lol