Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

I'm asking you if that was a lie? Not if the PGP think it was, as I know they don't.

I do not regard it as a lie. It appears to be one of the few times (remarkably few) when Raffaele caved in to the overall scenario he was being bombarded with.

(Did he have legal representation when he said this - I cannot remember.)

In any event, Raffaele covers these things in his book.

 

[JREF2010]

One person's ceiling is another person's floor. The point remains that Koko or the third man make the multiple attacker theory of less value because it is another connection.

Whose semen stain is it? It would be paramount for the ICSI to hide the DNA of a third man. Rudi's wouldn't have changed anything.

Who had connections to those who beatup Rudy while in prison?

Its too bad the PGP, with the close connections to the prosecution, didnt use their time obsessing over Rudy more. Toto death in police custody, is never discussed.

Why and who really allowed Rudy the Fast Track , Italys big embarrassment.

Why is the semen not tested? Will it be tested in Rudys probable future calunnia trial?

 

[Strozzi]

No evidence? Koko says he talked with Rudi. Koko's phone was pinged.

Would you say there is as much evidence that the third man was with Rudi as Raf being with Rudi? Because that's the point.

There is no evidence that anyone was with Rudi in the flat, except for the victim who came home a few minutes after 9pm.

There is also no evidence that anyone was outside the flat assisting (serving as lookout or driver for) Rudi while Rudi was burglarizing the flat, which must have been from at least a few minutes before 9 until close to 10pm.

Koko's phone pinged a cellular tower serving the neighborhood at 8:01 pm.

Given Koko's performance in court, you cannot trust anything he says. He is unreliable.

I will also point out that there is no reason why Rudi would need help to break into or burglarize the cottage or haul away small items (cash, jewelry, credit cards, a laptop). Rudi knew the cottage including the dark, downhill route away from the property.

 

[Vixen]

Kokomani testimony in a nutshell:

He was driving and 30-40 meters in front of him turned out to be AK and RS.
He bumped them "lightly" with his car
He then had his olive/phone/knife encounter with the two punching RS hard enough to knock his glasses to the pavement.
He tried to drive away, but was not able to, because he was held up in traffic caused by the broken down car.
While he is held up he sees and has a talk with Guede, who is also outside the cottage.
According to him all three are *outside the cottage*.

Guede told the other two to leave him alone because he knew them. He hears a scream from the cottage. All of this while the three are outside the cottage.

The conversation is over when "Kokomani has to leave quickly after seeing Sollecito in the side-view mirror coming with a knife."

What is MK doing screaming while the three are outside the cottage? Where is the damage to RS's face and glasses? Traffic was heavy enough that he had to stop. Where are the other drivers that saw this knife/olive fight? How about the broken down car? Did they see anything?

This is nonsense. I feel like my IQ went down a few points even reading it...

You have changed the fact of Kokomani's testimony. Kokomani did not say he heard "screaming". He said he heard a sole individual "shouting" or "yelling". This completely changes the context, as we are not necessarily looking at the time of death.

Whether or not Kokomani is lying - and if he were, he didn't take it out of the newspapers, for they described a "scream" as corroborated by four independent people, including Amanda and Rudy - then it was absolutely correct for police examiners to pay close attention to this claim, being as it were circa 21:30, a critical time.

If true, it could be Mez was falsely imprisoned, with her phones confiscated.

Having trained and worked as a voluntary counsellor, something like that must be listened to, and not ignored.

 

[Vixen]

too bad the investigators didnt look in both places.
being tunnel visioned in a murder investigaiton is probably not helpful in the long run.
they shouldnt have listened to edgardo giobbi, i think maybe hes an idiot.

Police did, for they found the bloody tissues and knife too blunt to be the murder weapon.

 

[anglolawyer]

You have changed the fact of Kokomani's testimony. Kokomani did not say he heard "screaming". He said he heard a sole individual "shouting" or "yelling". This completely changes the context, as we are not necessarily looking at the time of death.

Whether or not Kokomani is lying - and if he were, he didn't take it out of the newspapers, for they described a "scream" as corroborated by four independent people, including Amanda and Rudy - then it was absolutely correct for police examiners to pay close attention to this claim, being as it were circa 21:30, a critical time.

If true, it could be Mez was falsely imprisoned, with her phones confiscated.

Having trained and worked as a voluntary counsellor, something like that must be listened to, and not ignored.

Circa as in plus or minus two hours?

The guilters have this way of rearranging the deck chairs when discussing this aspect of the case, then arranging them back again when discussing that aspect as if it doesn't matter that the final arrangement can never be settled. Kokomani can't have passed at 9.30 anyway since the broken down car hadn't broken down yet and they were already in he square at precisely 9.28 when Curatolo showed up, according to the atomic clock he was wearing.

Anyone know what time he was pinged? Where's Dan O?

 

[Vixen]

I do not regard it as a lie. It appears to be one of the few times (remarkably few) when Raffaele caved in to the overall scenario he was being bombarded with.

(Did he have legal representation when he said this - I cannot remember.)

In any event, Raffaele covers these things in his book.

Oh come, come. If ALL the Italian housemates knew to get a lawyer to visit the police, then it's crap to claim Raff or Papa Raff didn't know to get a lawyer.

 

[Vixen]

There is no evidence that anyone was with Rudi in the flat, except for the victim who came home a few minutes after 9pm.

There is also no evidence that anyone was outside the flat assisting (serving as lookout or driver for) Rudi while Rudi was burglarizing the flat, which must have been from at least a few minutes before 9 until close to 10pm.

Koko's phone pinged a cellular tower serving the neighborhood at 8:01 pm.

Given Koko's performance in court, you cannot trust anything he says. He is unreliable.

I will also point out that there is no reason why Rudi would need help to break into or burglarize the cottage or haul away small items (cash, jewelry, credit cards, a laptop). Rudi knew the cottage including the dark, downhill route away from the property.

Well you saw the cctv footage as referred to by Randy which shows several passersby stopping in their tracks at the car park. People usually do this for auditory reasons, assuming they were looking ahead, and thus it wouldn't be for a visual event.

 

[Bill Williams]

Oh come, come. If ALL the Italian housemates knew to get a lawyer to visit the police, then it's crap to claim Raff or Papa Raff didn't know to get a lawyer.

This post makes no sense at all.

 

[Anode]

You have changed the fact of Kokomani's testimony. Kokomani did not say he heard "screaming". He said he heard a sole individual "shouting" or "yelling". This completely changes the context, as we are not necessarily looking at the time of death.

Whether or not Kokomani is lying - and if he were, he didn't take it out of the newspapers, for they described a "scream" as corroborated by four independent people, including Amanda and Rudy - then it was absolutely correct for police examiners to pay close attention to this claim, being as it were circa 21:30, a critical time.

If true, it could be Mez was falsely imprisoned, with her phones confiscated.

Having trained and worked as a voluntary counsellor, something like that must be listened to, and not ignored.

If I did this then I apologize to the board. I got my information from "themurderofmeredithkercher.com" and we've seen in the past that it's been less than accurate at times.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Hekuran_Kokomani's_Testimony_(English)

Under "Discussion with Rudy".

"Kokomani also testified that he heard a scream from the cottage but that Guede told him that was the music from the party."

 

[Grinder]

There is no evidence that anyone was with Rudi in the flat, except for the victim who came home a few minutes after 9pm.

There is also no evidence that anyone was outside the flat assisting (serving as lookout or driver for) Rudi while Rudi was burglarizing the flat, which must have been from at least a few minutes before 9 until close to 10pm.

Koko's phone pinged a cellular tower serving the neighborhood at 8:01 pm.

Given Koko's performance in court, you cannot trust anything he says. He is unreliable.

I will also point out that there is no reason why Rudi would need help to break into or burglarize the cottage or haul away small items (cash, jewelry, credit cards, a laptop). Rudi knew the cottage including the dark, downhill route away from the property.

For the last time, what Koko said means nothing except if he knew things that weren't public at the time. I've read somewhere that he talked about the tow truck before it was public knowledge.

Whether Rudi needed a car to remove the loot isn't clear. Carrying 4 laptops, a couple of cameras, a printer and other stuff might have been a bit much for Rudi to carry.

Once again, there is as much or more evidence that Koko was near the cottage when the crime occurred than there is that Raf was there which impacts the multiple attacker circumstantial evidence.

Clearly Koko wasn't going to tell the truth about driving the gang to the cottage. Rudi was already nailed dead to rights so naming him and making the kids the villains served Rudi as well.

 

[Grinder]

Circa as in plus or minus two hours?

The guilters have this way of rearranging the deck chairs when discussing this aspect of the case, then arranging them back again when discussing that aspect as if it doesn't matter that the final arrangement can never be settled. Kokomani can't have passed at 9.30 anyway since the broken down car hadn't broken down yet and they were already in he square at precisely 9.28 when Curatolo showed up, according to the atomic clock he was wearing.

Anyone know what time he was pinged? Where's Dan O?

At least one phone was pinged at 8:01 pm according to amandaknoxcase.com but it's possible the police deleted some pings

 

[TruthCalls]

One person's ceiling is another person's floor. The point remains that Koko or the third man make the multiple attacker theory of less value because it is another connection.

Whose semen stain is it? It would be paramount for the ICSI to hide the DNA of a third man. Rudi's wouldn't have changed anything.

Of course it would change things. Guede' story precludes him for depositing semen. He claims he was fooling around, goes to the bathroom, and comes out only after Meredith has already been attacked. If it is his semen, then this proves his sexual assault against Meredith went far further than he claims, making the chance anyone else was there even more remote.

 

[Mr Fied]

You have changed the fact of Kokomani's testimony. Kokomani did not say he heard "screaming". He said he heard a sole individual "shouting" or "yelling". This completely changes the context, as we are not necessarily looking at the time of death.

Whether or not Kokomani is lying - and if he were, he didn't take it out of the newspapers, for they described a "scream" as corroborated by four independent people, including Amanda and Rudy - then it was absolutely correct for police examiners to pay close attention to this claim, being as it were circa 21:30, a critical time.

If true, it could be Mez was falsely imprisoned, with her phones confiscated.

Having trained and worked as a voluntary counsellor, something like that must be listened to, and not ignored.

IIRC it was the police who mentioned the scream to Amanda. When pushed on why she didn't hear the scream she said she must have had her hands over her ears.

This was all part of the being told to imagine what went on because she had obviously suffered trauma induced amnesia.

So she did not corroborate a scream.

So we are down to three people that heard the scream. All within a 2 hour window.

So if Kokomani heard the scream how come the driver of the breakdown truck, the occupants of the broken down car or even the drivers of all the other cars that caused the traffic he was caught up in, never heard it?

 

[anglolawyer]

For the last time, what Koko said means nothing except if he knew things that weren't public at the time. I've read somewhere that he talked about the tow truck before it was public knowledge.

Whether Rudi needed a car to remove the loot isn't clear. Carrying 4 laptops, a couple of cameras, a printer and other stuff might have been a bit much for Rudi to carry.

Once again, there is as much or more evidence that Koko was near the cottage when the crime occurred than there is that Raf was there which impacts the multiple attacker circumstantial evidence.
Clearly Koko wasn't going to tell the truth about driving the gang to the cottage. Rudi was already nailed dead to rights so naming him and making the kids the villains served Rudi as well.

Three compatibles equals a match and now two nothings apparently amounts to a circumstantial case? If you are going to use the extremely low evidence threshold that was used against Raf you can implicate anybody.

Didn't Rudy walk to the cottage? I thought he was seen in the car park vid. Walking.

 

[Grinder]

This post makes no sense at all.

Why doesn't it make sense? I have always wondered why Raf didn't know to get a lawyer after reading Frank's accounts.

 

[Mr Fied]

You have changed the fact of Kokomani's testimony. Kokomani did not say he heard "screaming". He said he heard a sole individual "shouting" or "yelling". This completely changes the context, as we are not necessarily looking at the time of death.

Whether or not Kokomani is lying - and if he were, he didn't take it out of the newspapers, for they described a "scream" as corroborated by four independent people, including Amanda and Rudy - then it was absolutely correct for police examiners to pay close attention to this claim, being as it were circa 21:30, a critical time.

If true, it could be Mez was falsely imprisoned, with her phones confiscated.

Having trained and worked as a voluntary counsellor, something like that must be listened to, and not ignored.

So in this case, they locked Meredith in her room, went out for a stroll, took her phones with them, had an olive fight, then thought, "let's all go back and watch Rudi kill Meredith while we stand outside the room so we don't leave any evidence of ourselves in the murder room".

 

[anglolawyer]

So in this case, they locked Meredith in her room, went out for a stroll, took her phones with them, had an olive fight, then thought, "let's all go back and watch Rudi kill Meredith while we stand outside the room so we don't leave any evidence of ourselves in the murder room".

 

[Bill Williams]

Why doesn't it make sense? I have always wondered why Raf didn't know to get a lawyer after reading Frank's accounts.

You'd be doing me an unmerited kindness by not only explaining what that response means - standing alone - but what it has to do with the post it responds to. But I'm warning you, type slowly because I don't get it.

The only person who wonders more as to why he didn't get a lawyer is Raffaele himself. He covers that bit of brilliant 20/20 hindsight in his book!

 

[Bill Williams]

If I did this then I apologize to the board. I got my information from "themurderofmeredithkercher.com" and we've seen in the past that it's been less than accurate at times.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Hekuran_Kokomani's_Testimony_(English)

Under "Discussion with Rudy".

"Kokomani also testified that he heard a scream from the cottage but that Guede told him that was the music from the party."

Unfortunately it takes three or four experiences like this with the guilter fake-Wiki before even the best of us sees it for what it is. Best ignored.

Indeed it's run by folks with, shall we say, questionable credentials - and I'll leave it at that given that mods here protect him.