Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[sept79]

This was the DNA from a couple they never found.

As Raff pleaded for police to "search the bushes for the murder knife"; and lo! a butterknife was found, I expect it was cleverly planted by Raff himself.

Seriously ?

 

[anglolawyer]

Oh Anglo the two are so different. CT wasn't identifying anything to do with the crime. He never was sure that it was Rudi.

Who do you think worked to prove Koko knew Rudi? Do you think Mignini wasted a minute on it? Did the kids' defense team do anything about it before it became a judicial truth? Certainly there is as much evidence that Koko knew Rudi as Amanda knew Rudi and way more than Raf knowing Rudi.

Which case would you rather prove, that Rudi knew Raf or that Rudi knew Koko?

Koko's story doesn't interest me but his presence does and should interest the kids' defense because it gives another connection to the multiple killer circumstantial evidence. Why rely on he did it as a "lone wolf".

Hmmm, I sense you shimmying smoothly away from your three-handed house burglary (burglary is mostly a solitary actvity I believe). You never did say who the third guy was.

 

[Vixen]

So you have to agree that Kokomani or another man he drove to the cottage could have been involved and not left evidence that the ISC found or if they found it neglected to identify to whom it belonged. Out of the hundreds of unidentified pieces surely one of them could belong to the Albanian killer.

I would imagine police took swabs from Kokomani and perhaps he had an alibi. Clearly, they did not have any evidence to charge him.

 

[Vixen]

Seriously ?

Yes, it's true Raff's defense begged for the bushes to be searched instead of focusing on the knife found in his apartment.

 

[Grinder]

Hmmm, I sense you shimmying smoothly away from your three-handed house burglary (burglary is mostly a solitary actvity I believe). You never did say who the third guy was.

Oh no I always saw Koko as the wheel. The third guy is the one who left the "semen" stain on the pillow. By profiling I've determined that he was a commando in the Albanian Revolutionary Army and was 38 years old at the time of the murder.

But I do appreciate the smooth description.

 

[Grinder]

I would imagine police took swabs from Kokomani and perhaps he had an alibi. Clearly, they did not have any evidence to charge him.

Vixen his alibi was that he was there throwing olives and phones at people. You would probably imagine that the cops would have taken reference prints from all the residents of the cottage present and those just prior. You'd think they would have tested the "semen" stain. You'd think they would have picked up the bra clasp the first day and that the cops that tossed the placed between 11-2 and 12 -18 might have noticed it and thought "this might be important" instead of kicking it under the carpet - or maybe they did pick it up.

 

[Strozzi]

They could have come from your list or an accomplice of Rudi's.

Hypodermic syringes were occasionally left on the property. Do IV drug addicts occasionally bleed and do they leave their discarded materials behind?

Superstar witness Curatolo testified in court that he used the area as his toilet. Did he leave his blood-tinged toilet paper in the area?

The parking garage videos show no pedestrian moving in tandem with Rudi.

So far, I see no evidence that a second participant was with Rudi on the evening of Nov 1, 2007.

 

[Grinder]

Hypodermic syringes were occasionally left on the property. Do IV drug addicts occasionally bleed and do they leave their discarded materials behind?

Superstar witness Curatolo testified in court that he used the area as his toilet. Did he leave his blood-tinged toilet paper in the area?

The parking garage videos show no pedestrian moving in tandem with Rudi.

So far, I see no evidence that a second participant was with Rudi on the evening of Nov 1, 2007.

No evidence? Koko says he talked with Rudi. Koko's phone was pinged.

Would you say there is as much evidence that the third man was with Rudi as Raf being with Rudi? Because that's the point.

 

[JREF2010]

Yes, it's true Raff's defense begged for the bushes to be searched instead of focusing on the knife found in his apartment.

too bad the investigators didnt look in both places.
being tunnel visioned in a murder investigaiton is probably not helpful in the long run.
they shouldnt have listened to edgardo giobbi, i think maybe hes an idiot.

 

[Bob001]

Start the ball rolling, Bob001!

I have no doubt that Amanda and Raffaele were falsely accused and unjustly railroaded. I'm trying to understand the thinking of those who reject the obvious, including two appeals court decisions.

So you first.

 

[Grinder]

I have no doubt that Amanda and Raffaele were falsely accused and unjustly railroaded. I'm trying to understand the thinking of those who reject the obvious, including two appeals court decisions.

So you first.

One appeals court ( Court of Assizes of Appeal or second instance) and one supreme court (Court of Legitimacy) ruling. Not that it matters much.

 

[Anode]

Kokomani testimony in a nutshell:

He was driving and 30-40 meters in front of him turned out to be AK and RS.
He bumped them "lightly" with his car
He then had his olive/phone/knife encounter with the two punching RS hard enough to knock his glasses to the pavement.
He tried to drive away, but was not able to, because he was held up in traffic caused by the broken down car.
While he is held up he sees and has a talk with Guede, who is also outside the cottage.
According to him all three are *outside the cottage*.

Guede told the other two to leave him alone because he knew them. He hears a scream from the cottage. All of this while the three are outside the cottage.

The conversation is over when "Kokomani has to leave quickly after seeing Sollecito in the side-view mirror coming with a knife."

What is MK doing screaming while the three are outside the cottage? Where is the damage to RS's face and glasses? Traffic was heavy enough that he had to stop. Where are the other drivers that saw this knife/olive fight? How about the broken down car? Did they see anything?

This is nonsense. I feel like my IQ went down a few points even reading it...

 

[Bill Williams]

I long ago gave up trying to follow -- or even make sense of -- this thread, but I note that it's still going strong. So I propose a dance-off:

1/ The people who still hold the belief that Amanda and Raffaele had anything at all to do with Meredith's death: summarize your evidence point-by-point, particularly citing errors you think were made by the two Italian courts that determined there is no evidence against them;

2/ Others who disagree: respond point-by-point.

Bob001 - I used to find it most fruitful to discuss these things in PM with those who, "hold the belief that Amanda and Raffaele had anything at all to do with Meredith's death". It was away from the glare of one-up-man-ship in the public thread.

The most helpful result of that process was to understand how central it is to "guilters" what they claim is, "All the lies Amanda told." We could mutually agree that people don't kill over "sex-games gone wrong", or "pooh in the toilet", or the slut-shaming jealousies others propose....

But the most consistent thing guilters (admittedly anecdotally) won't let go of is, "all the lies", particularly the "lie" about Lumumba, uttered first at interrogation.

Perhaps you can sense why that is a stumbling block - I simply do not see that as a lie, but as an interrogation-induced "false confession", well trod territory for those who study these things.

So - one point of evidence which seems to have no resolution between sane people innocentisti and guilters is this.

I once compiled a list of the lies they claim Amanda (and Raffaele) told, a list generated by spending way, way too much time looking for the very specifics you asked for. There were thirteen of them, draw from three sources, the main one being Harry Rag/The Machine. HR/TM had reason to list them because he, too, is the purveyor over the years of "all the lies Knox told", as being necessary to understand why he so persistently believes in guilt.

I can find it and relist it if you'd like.

 

[Grinder]

Kokomani testimony in a nutshell:

He was driving and 30-40 meters in front of him turned out to be AK and RS.
He bumped them "lightly" with his car
He then had his olive/phone/knife encounter with the two punching RS hard enough to knock his glasses to the pavement.
He tried to drive away, but was not able to, because he was held up in traffic caused by the broken down car.
While he is held up he sees and has a talk with Guede, who is also outside the cottage.
According to him all three are *outside the cottage*.

Guede told the other two to leave him alone because he knew them. He hears a scream from the cottage. All of this while the three are outside the cottage.

The conversation is over when "Kokomani has to leave quickly after seeing Sollecito in the side-view mirror coming with a knife."

What is MK doing screaming while the three are outside the cottage? Where is the damage to RS's face and glasses? Traffic was heavy enough that he had to stop. Where are the other drivers that saw this knife/olive fight? How about the broken down car? Did they see anything?

This is nonsense. I feel like my IQ went down a few points even reading it...

It is clear that his testimony is nonsense and has nothing to do with his possible involvement unless one views his testimony as genius in eliminating him from suspicion.

His phone was in the area of the cottage. His car may have been one spotted near the cottage. He and Rudi may (keeping Anglo off my back temporally, oh yeah he's sleeping ) have worked together at a farm/restaurant that Rudi's foster dad owned.

At any rate he was as likely to be involved as either Raf or Amanda.

 

[Bill Williams]

It is clear that his testimony is nonsense and has nothing to do with his possible involvement unless one views his testimony as genius in eliminating him from suspicion.

His phone was in the area of the cottage. His car may have been one spotted near the cottage. He and Rudi may (keeping Anglo off my back temporally, oh yeah he's sleeping ) have worked together at a farm/restaurant that Rudi's foster dad owned.

At any rate he was as likely to be involved as either Raf or Amanda.

Why didn''t you just say that he was innocent!

And as for that other guy - he never sleeps.

 

[Grinder]

Bob001 - I used to find it most fruitful to discuss these things in PM with those who, "hold the belief that Amanda and Raffaele had anything at all to do with Meredith's death". It was away from the glare of one-up-man-ship in the public thread.

What are you talking about.

Btw - it's one-upmanship

Did Raf lie when he said " In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of
her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies"

 

[Grinder]

Why didn''t you just say that he was innocent!

And as for that other guy - he never sleeps.

One person's ceiling is another person's floor. The point remains that Koko or the third man make the multiple attacker theory of less value because it is another connection.

Whose semen stain is it? It would be paramount for the ICSI to hide the DNA of a third man. Rudi's wouldn't have changed anything.

 

[Bill Williams]

One person's ceiling is another person's floor. The point remains that Koko or the third man make the multiple attacker theory of less value because it is another connection.

Whose semen stain is it? It would be paramount for the ICSI to hide the DNA of a third man. Rudi's wouldn't have changed anything.

I'll give you that. It is completely unbelievable that the Perugian cops did not identify that substance, for both composition and ownership - remember, it's only a "presumed" semen stain. That is perhaps the best wedge issue into your own version of conspiracy. To address bob001, there simply is no sane guilter-rationale for that substance not being tested and identified. It strains credulity.

Second is the way people like Judge Massei, sloughed it off as a judicial issue. Proof that the convicting courts were patently insane are such things.

 

[Bill Williams]

What are you talking about.

Btw - it's one-upmanship

LOL! Putting the subject matter into practise!!! Brilliant.

Did Raf lie when he said " In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of
her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies"

I haven't posted the definitive guilter-list recently. I get accused of "whinging" when I do. But, no, that was not one of the lies guilters said Raffaele told.

 

[Grinder]

LOL! Putting the subject matter into practise!!! Brilliant.


I haven't posted the definitive guilter-list recently. I get accused of "whinging" when I do. But, no, that was not one of the lies guilters said Raffaele told.

I'm asking you if that was a lie? Not if the PGP think it was, as I know they don't.