"The Principle" - anti-Copernican movie

[Rincewind]

Yes, you were, sorry. Can we just turn Sungenis over to your Luggage?

If you can find it...

And is that fair to the luggage?

 

[Mudcat]

Just for ***** and giggles I decided to see if anyone out there had any legitimate arguments for a geocentric universe. Unsurprisingly the most arguments for it stems from the proposed authority of the bible, the rest had arguments that went along the lines of "If we assume geocenticricy is true then the conclusion that we live in a heliocentric universe is wrong and so are the observations that lead to that conclusion."

Yeah, I'm going to just leave it alone that we don't live in a heliocentric universe and conclude that you're a moron now, thanks.

 

[turingtest]

Just for ***** and giggles I decided to see if anyone out there had any legitimate arguments for a geocentric universe. Unsurprisingly the most arguments for it stems from the proposed authority of the bible, the rest had arguments that went along the lines of "If we assume geocenticricy is true then the conclusion that we live in a heliocentric universe is wrong and so are the observations that lead to that conclusion."

Yeah, I'm going to just leave it alone that we don't live in a heliocentric universe and conclude that you're a moron now, thanks.

Interesting; from the ICR article:

Perhaps the most important lesson to be learned from the history of geocentricity is in connection with the question, "What role should scientific discovery play in the interpretation of the Bible?" It is surely ironic to see the incident of Galileo's trial before the Inquisition paraded as a supposedly unarguable illustration of the "mistake" recent-creationists make when they insist on a literal, supernatural, six-day creation and fail to yield to modern scientific views of how the universe came to be. "After all," we hear, "the theologians said that Galileo's heliocentric viewpoint was heresy, but now everybody knows that the theologians were wrong and Galileo was right."

In actual fact, as we have seen above, the current scientific consensus is that "Today we cannot say that the Copernican theory [which Galileo held] is 'right' and the Ptolemaic theory [which the theologians held] 'wrong' in any meaningful physical sense."

The generally overlooked lesson here is that scientific theories do not provide a very secure basis from which to interpret Scripture. In the course of the last five hundred years the weight of scientific consensus has rested in turn with each of three different theories about the form of the universe: first geocentricity, then helio-centricity, and now relativity.

This is the way it is with scientific theories—they come and go. But the Word of God endures forever. Let us be immovable in upholding what the Bible clearly teaches.

About as perfect a case of needing to be able to eat your cake and have it too as I've ever seen- even when religion is wrong, it's right, because it never changes; and even when science is right, it's wrong, because it does change. And that last (highlighted) bit is especially ironic, in view of the fact that the author had just spent a good bit of his article excusing the theologians (who were persecuting Galileo for espousing heliocentricity) on the ground that the Bible doesn't actually "clearly teach" geocentricity at all. The whole thing is, in effect, an exhortation to be "immovable" by waffling as the case for faith may require it.

 

[Mudcat]

Interesting; from the ICR article:

I love how they try to use Einstein to back their argument.

About as perfect a case of needing to be able to eat your cake and have it too as I've ever seen- even when religion is wrong, it's right, because it never changes; and even when science is right, it's wrong, because it does change.

I've seen that argument used a lot as if that's supposed to be a legitimate argument for religion and against science when it's laughably easy to dispute.

But yeah. More Geocentric eccentricity:

Because the earth's atmosphere is magically Velcroed to the earth and rotates with it.

...Wait, what? How about you try gravity? Drooling idiot.

 

[turingtest]

But yeah. More Geocentric eccentricity:

Originally Posted by Alantean Conspiracy
Because the earth's atmosphere is magically Velcroed to the earth and rotates with it.

...Wait, what? How about you try gravity? Drooling idiot.

I haven't read the article (yet); but, if this guy really thinks anyone has ever said anything about the atmosphere being "magically velcroed to the earth," I'd invite him to look up "Coriolis force"- go stand in the middle of a hurricane (as I have, several times, including Katrina), and tell me about it. A line from Blue Oyster Cult's "Astronomy" occurs to me- "you'll want to know where winds come from."

 

[Mudcat]

I haven't read the article (yet); but, if this guy really thinks anyone has ever said anything about the atmosphere being "magically velcroed to the earth," I'd invite him to look up "Coriolis force".

I think it's garden variety "I don't understand so therefore magic."

 

[turingtest]

I think it's garden variety "I don't understand so therefore magic."

Along with a lot of "I don't believe it, therefore something else"; as in his answer to "why do the sun and the moon appear to be the same size?"

GC [GeoCentric- his idea]: Because they are the same size.

HC [HelioCentric- the idea he opposes]: They only appear to be the same size because of an incredibly perfect parallax perspective from Earth. Actually the Sun is 1.392x10^6 km in diameter and 1.496x10^8 km from Earth. The Moon is 3474 km in diameter and 384,403 km from the Earth. And these just happen to be the EXACT diameters and distances necessary for a viewer from Earth to falsely perceive them as being the same size.

I just went outside on the balcony of my apartment, held up my right thumb, and covered perfectly an SUV in the parking lot down the street. There's one of two things going on here- either my thumb and that SUV really are the same size, or...perspective. Nothing magical or "incredibly perfect" about it, just the way the universe works; the moon and the sun are the same apparent size in obedience to the age-old law of "**** happens."

That kind of brings up what is, to me, an interesting point- how woo-slingers, CTists, and religiously-addled people must depend on "philosophy" to back their conclusions rather than, you know, just empirically testing for them. (There's a poster on this forum, who shall remain here nameless, who insists on this approach) They begin with an idea, but then, instead of trying by experiment to falsify it, they decide that simply arguing will suffice to "prove" it. It's all sitting around the BS table and debating for them; reality is determined by who makes the best points (or can outlast the other). So you end up with things like messages from the dead in radio commercials, "the Mafia killed JFK!" and the Shroud Of Turin being, for them, just as likely as anything evidence can show; you find yourself spinning plots, reality be damned.

 

[Pixel42]

Along with a lot of "I don't believe it, therefore something else"; as in his answer to "why do the sun and the moon appear to be the same size?"

The apparent similarity in size is, of course, temporary as the moon is moving away from the earth. They will only appear roughly the same size for a small percentage of the earth's existence. So the only even slightly remarkable fact is that our species happened to evolve during that brief window.

 

[Mudcat]

So you end up with things like messages from the dead in radio commercials.

If the person or persons that made the radio commercial(s) is/are dead, wouldn't they be 'messages from the dead'?

 

[Tolls]

Along with a lot of "I don't believe it, therefore something else"; as in his answer to "why do the sun and the moon appear to be the same size?"


I just went outside on the balcony of my apartment, held up my right thumb, and covered perfectly an SUV in the parking lot down the street. There's one of two things going on here- either my thumb and that SUV really are the same size, or...perspective.

It's all very Father Ted.

"These are small… but the ones out there are far away."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS12p0Zqlt0

 

[Syameese]

wrong thread

 

[lpetrich]

ScreeningNOW -- "The Principle", now available for purchase on DVD or Blu-Ray. It will be available for rent on December 8, 2015, presumably by streaming online.

So you can now see what it's about, though you must be willing to make the great sacrifice of supporting its creators' careers.

 

[asydhouse]

ScreeningNOW -- "The Principle", now available for purchase on DVD or Blu-Ray. It will be available for rent on December 8, 2015, presumably by streaming online.

So you can now see what it's about, though you must be willing to make the great sacrifice of supporting its creators' careers.

Can't be arsed.

 

[deaman]

The Earth is not the center of the Universe but, it's very close, because I AM the center of the Universe, obviously!

 

[Major Major]

At the risk of necroing this thread, I can report that The Principle is still going, along with a documentary on the topic of "Thoughtcrime: The Conspiracy to Stop The Principle"

http://www.theprinciplemovie.com/buythemovie/

You may now resume your excursion into the world of sanity.

 

[fuelair]

Wait! People still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe, and are not participating in satire?

I weep for humanity should such nonsense ever gain mass appeal.

An unpleasantly large number of people are uneducated, many of them by their own choice, on the realities of the Universe. The majority of them base this ignorance and refusal to learn on their religion so I must logically blame it on their religion!!!!!! And the Universe knowledge is not the only problem religion causes or assists.

 

[fuelair]

Or even glorifies.

 

[CORed]

How do these people reconcile the fact that if we lived in a geocentric universe then objects revolving around us further out, just in this galaxy alone, would be going faster than the speed of light?

Einstein is clearly wrong. Relativity is bunk. Heck, once you buy into geocentrism, denying relativity, and probably Newtonian physics as well is a piece of cake. You weren't really expecting rationality or even internal consistency from cranks like that, were you?

 

[Mudcat]

Einstein is clearly wrong. Relativity is bunk. Heck, once you buy into geocentrism, denying relativity, and probably Newtonian physics as well is a piece of cake. You weren't really expecting rationality or even internal consistency from cranks like that, were you?

Not really but damn if the whole thing don't make me cringe. I mean you don't have to go far before things would be traveling faster than light just to match what we observe, and even then we'd be able to tell if that was happening.

It just makes me wonder just how do these mouth breathing morons think these celestial bodies stay in orbit of Earth. Haven't they ever hear of centrifugal force? What's keeping all of these celestial bodies from flying off faster than the speed of light? Critical failure of geocentrism at every scale! Fractal failure at its finest!

 

[fuelair]

Not really but damn if the whole thing don't make me cringe. I mean you don't have to go far before things would be traveling faster than light just to match what we observe, and even then we'd be able to tell if that was happening.

It just makes me wonder just how do these mouth breathing morons think these celestial bodies stay in orbit of Earth. Haven't they ever hear of centrifugal force? What's keeping all of these celestial bodies from flying off faster than the speed of light? Critical failure of geocentrism at every scale! Fractal failure at its finest!

A key problem in your last paragraph lies in the assumption clearly obvious by the phrase "mouth breathing morons think", in which the word "think" is clearly an unwarranted assumption!!!