Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

That's not really an answer to my question, is it?
I wanted to know where you got the "extreme experiences" from in context with Amanda Knox "wielding a knife"?

Raff wrote on his public domain Facebook profile that he was looking for extreme experiences. The same one wherein he posed as a mad scientist butcher wielding a meat cleaver.

 

[Vixen]

Gee. Objective and scientific. Awesome. How the heck did she wangle her way out of that?

The top theories are:

1. Raff's mafia connections
2. The US state intervening
3. Marasca and Bruno's political activites. Lobbying and backhanders, etc.

You note, none of these theories involve miscarriage of justice.

 

[Vixen]

Only 52? Neat.

Told you they'd have trouble explaining it.

 

[carbonjam72]

I google-translated a little bit of your link:

[deleted superfluous 'translation']

ETA Ninja'd a bit there. Is the ISC saying the whole thing is Amanda's fault for accusing Lumumba?

Here's two paragraphs on the calunnia from the two articles linked above:

FROM Processo Meredith, la Cassazione: "Clamorosi errori nell'inchiesta"
...
It 'a matter "of undoubted significance" in favor of Knox and Sollecito - "so as to exclude their participation in material murder, despite the assumption of their presence in the house on Via della Pergola" - the "absolute lack of evidence related to their biological "in the room or on the body of the murder victim. In "troubled path and inherently contradictory" the Kercher murder trial is a "just because of irrefutable certainty: the guilt of Amanda Knox in order to slanderous accusations against Patrick Lumumba." The judgment notes that the libel was confirmed by the same Knox in an environment "free from abnormal psychological pressure." For this "a possible ruling by the European Court of Justice in favor of" the appeal in which Knox denounced "an unorthodox treatment of the investigators against him" could not "in any way tarnish" the final step in the court decision of guilt for slander, "not even in view of possible revision of the judgment, considering that the slanderous accusations that the same defendant turned to Lumumba as a result of the alleged coercion, were also confirmed by her before the PM, during the interrogation, therefore a context institutionally immune to abnormal psychological pressure. " ...

And:

FROM - http://corrieredelmezzogiorno.corrie...6ebd96ca.shtml
...
Doubts
According to the Supreme Court, if it were not for these defaillance investigation, and if the investigation had not been affected by these 'guilty omissions, "would" in all likelihood, allowed, right now, to outline a framework, if not certainty at least tranquilizer reliability, a view you want the guilt of foreignness "of Knox and Sollecito respect to the charge of killing the British student Meredith Kercher in Perugia on Nov. 1, 2007.
Certainty
In "troubled path and inherently contradictory," the Kercher murder trial is a "just because of irrefutable certainty: the guilt of Amanda Knox in order to slanderous accusations against Patrick Lumumba." It underlines the Supreme Court in the grounds of absolution of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. The judgment notes that the libel was confirmed by the same Knox in an "abnormal immune to psychological pressure." Thus, "a possible ruling by the European Court of Justice in favor of" the appeal in which Knox denounced "an unorthodox treatment of the investigators to him," could not "in any way tarnish" the final step in the court decision of guilt for slander, "not even in view of possible revision of the judgment, considering that the slanderous accusations that the same defendant turned to Lumumba as a result of the alleged coercion, were also confirmed by her before the PM, during the interrogation, therefore a context institutionally immune to abnormal psychological pressure. " Furthermore, such allegations - says the Supreme Court - "were also confirmed in the memorial" signed by Knox "at a time when the same accuser was alone with himself and his conscience, in terms of objective tranquility, away from environmental conditioning" .
...

It seems like they're saying accusing Lumumba is Amanda's fault, because she repeated it when she spoke to Mignini, and also wrote it in one of her memoriales. But they seem to ignore her questioning the truth of the memory, and the possibility that she's suffering from confusion as a result of the 'alleged pressures'.

But they do seem to almost anticipate a favorable ruling at the ECHR on the issue, due to the circumstances under which Amanda statements was originally extracted, and that everything that comes after it is therefore going to get tossed (even though their interpretation of it is silly).

So I'm reading this as cassation is aware Amanda's appeal to ECHR will be granted in favor, and a revision trial in Italy will toss the calunnia conviction and expunge the conviction. (Bye-bye Patrick's "damages award").

But on this issue, cassation seems to be blaming Amanda for 'clinging to her story' when no pressure was present (indeed, to which such pressure was and is, "institutionally abnormal").

So looks like they slammed the investigation, and are protecting the "institution" (i.e., Mignini).

This suggests some low level people, like Ficarra, Zugarini, Napoleone, and maybe some other police, will be criticized, and maybe disciplined. Mignini will officially skate, but I predict he retires (gets the boot, with full retirement benefits) before the end of the year.

Case closed. (Until ECHR tosses this mess).

 

[acbytesla]

This idea I am a "slut shamer" is pure hyperbole based on the old hippie precept of , "anything goes; do thou what thou willst (cf Aleister Crowley)". Objectively, and leaving out emotive terms, such as, "degenerate", there is an undoubted link between serious organised crime and drugdealing, prostitution and pimping. Anyone buying cocaine is inadvertently supporting these activities. Amanda was actively consorting and sleeping with a cocaine dealer involved in serious crime. No doubt, this was due to the naivety of youth. OTOH it's quite wrong to call it the "passions of a healthy young woman". As we saw, Amanda's reckless behaviour led to tragic consequences, not just for Mez, but for herself, Raff and their families.

Two sets of judges at merits hearings decreed prima facie evidence showed Amanda wielded the knife, including objective scientific DNA evidence.

To pretend Amanda was only prosecuted because she enjoyed dangerous sex, is specious.

Of course you are slut shaming. You just equated Amanda having sex and smoking a joint to Amanda being a whore. You just said Amanda enjoyed "dangerous sex". What makes it "dangerous"?

This is the root of the issue and why you are portraying Amanda in such a sick way. Instead of addressing the non existent evidence you subtly use the terms "degenerate" and "dangerous sex" and suggest that there is some link between this case and "pimping" "drug dealing"and "prostitution". Which of course anyone with any knowledge of this case who HAS A SHRED OF PERSONAL INTEGRITY knows that there isn't. That person wouldn't allude to it.

 

[Vixen]

Of course you are slut shaming. You just equated Amanda having sex and smoking a joint to Amanda being a whore. You just said Amanda enjoyed "dangerous sex". What makes it "dangerous"?

This is the root of the issue and why you are portraying Amanda in such a sick way. Instead of addressing the non existent evidence you subtly use the terms "degenerate" and "dangerous sex" and suggest that there is some link between this case and "pimping" "drug dealing"and "prostitution". Which of course anyone with any knowledge of this case who HAS A SHRED OF PERSONAL INTEGRITY knows that there isn't. That person wouldn't allude to it.

Er, it led to murder...? Bringing home a string of strange men, led to Mez being left vulnerable, especially during that All Soul's weekend where she was home alone.

Drugs are almost certainly at the root of the crime facilitation.

ETA Would you want your kids sharing a house with reckless characters seeking "extreme experiences" and bringing home all sorts of shady people?

 

[anglolawyer]

The top theories are:

1. Raff's mafia connections
2. The US state intervening
3. Marasca and Bruno's political activites. Lobbying and backhanders, etc.

You note, none of these theories involve miscarriage of justice.

Don't you think those Mafia connections might have come through a little sooner? I mean, why put them through 7 years of hell at a cost of millions of euros? Just make Mignini an offer he can't refuse and bosh! Sorted.

But you are so right. The world is a very corrupt place in which unjust things happen to ordinary, innocent people.

 

[sept79]

.
.
. . . allegations - says the Supreme Court - "were also confirmed in the memorial" signed by Knox "at a time when the same accuser was alone with himself and his conscience, in terms of objective tranquility, away from environmental conditioning" .
September 7, 2015 | 13:58

It appears that 'maybe', 'confused', 'events seem more unreal', 'doubtful of the verity of my statements', 'pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion', 'not quite sure', 'things seem unreal to me' don't translate accurately from English to Italian. Very confusing and troubling . . .

 

[anglolawyer]

Told you they'd have trouble explaining it.

Less is more. I could explan it in a few paragraphs.

 

[anglolawyer]

Here's two paragraphs on the calunnia from the two articles linked above:

FROM Processo Meredith, la Cassazione: "Clamorosi errori nell'inchiesta"
...
It 'a matter "of undoubted significance" in favor of Knox and Sollecito - "so as to exclude their participation in material murder, despite the assumption of their presence in the house on Via della Pergola" - the "absolute lack of evidence related to their biological "in the room or on the body of the murder victim. In "troubled path and inherently contradictory" the Kercher murder trial is a "just because of irrefutable certainty: the guilt of Amanda Knox in order to slanderous accusations against Patrick Lumumba." The judgment notes that the libel was confirmed by the same Knox in an environment "free from abnormal psychological pressure." For this "a possible ruling by the European Court of Justice in favor of" the appeal in which Knox denounced "an unorthodox treatment of the investigators against him" could not "in any way tarnish" the final step in the court decision of guilt for slander, "not even in view of possible revision of the judgment, considering that the slanderous accusations that the same defendant turned to Lumumba as a result of the alleged coercion, were also confirmed by her before the PM, during the interrogation, therefore a context institutionally immune to abnormal psychological pressure. " ...

And:

FROM - http://corrieredelmezzogiorno.corrie...6ebd96ca.shtml
...
Doubts
According to the Supreme Court, if it were not for these defaillance investigation, and if the investigation had not been affected by these 'guilty omissions, "would" in all likelihood, allowed, right now, to outline a framework, if not certainty at least tranquilizer reliability, a view you want the guilt of foreignness "of Knox and Sollecito respect to the charge of killing the British student Meredith Kercher in Perugia on Nov. 1, 2007.
Certainty
In "troubled path and inherently contradictory," the Kercher murder trial is a "just because of irrefutable certainty: the guilt of Amanda Knox in order to slanderous accusations against Patrick Lumumba." It underlines the Supreme Court in the grounds of absolution of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. The judgment notes that the libel was confirmed by the same Knox in an "abnormal immune to psychological pressure." Thus, "a possible ruling by the European Court of Justice in favor of" the appeal in which Knox denounced "an unorthodox treatment of the investigators to him," could not "in any way tarnish" the final step in the court decision of guilt for slander, "not even in view of possible revision of the judgment, considering that the slanderous accusations that the same defendant turned to Lumumba as a result of the alleged coercion, were also confirmed by her before the PM, during the interrogation, therefore a context institutionally immune to abnormal psychological pressure. " Furthermore, such allegations - says the Supreme Court - "were also confirmed in the memorial" signed by Knox "at a time when the same accuser was alone with himself and his conscience, in terms of objective tranquility, away from environmental conditioning" .
...

It seems like they're saying accusing Lumumba is Amanda's fault, because she repeated it when she spoke to Mignini, and also wrote it in one of her memoriales. But they seem to ignore her questioning the truth of the memory, and the possibility that she's suffering from confusion as a result of the 'alleged pressures'.

But they do seem to almost anticipate a favorable ruling at the ECHR on the issue, due to the circumstances under which Amanda statements was originally extracted, and that everything that comes after it is therefore going to get tossed (even though their interpretation of it is silly).

So I'm reading this as cassation is aware Amanda's appeal to ECHR will be granted in favor, and a revision trial in Italy will toss the calunnia conviction and expunge the conviction. (Bye-bye Patrick's "damages award").

But on this issue, cassation seems to be blaming Amanda for 'clinging to her story' when no pressure was present (indeed, to which such pressure was and is, "institutionally abnormal").

So looks like they slammed the investigation, and are protecting the "institution" (i.e., Mignini).

This suggests some low level people, like Ficarra, Zugarini, Napoleone, and maybe some other police, will be criticized, and maybe disciplined. Mignini will officially skate, but I predict he retires (gets the boot, with full retirement benefits) before the end of the year.

Case closed. (Until ECHR tosses this mess).

What did she say to Mignini when not under pressure that confirmed her accusation of Patrick?

 

[acbytesla]

Amanda was acquainted with Rudy. It is a fact.

Being acquainted means nothing. I'm acquainted with the mini mart clerk, that doesn't mean we killed someone last night. At least with Patrick there was the exchange of texts. With Rudy there is NOTHING. Do you have any calls between them? NO. Texts? NO. E-mails? NO. Any CCTV footage of Amanda or Raffaele out that night when they said they were in? NO.

Can you prove that they got together that night? NO. Any night? NO.

You have a fantasy that they got together and that's all. Not a shred of evidence to support it.

It should take a hell of a lot more than that to convict someone.

 

[acbytesla]

Er, it led to murder...? Bringing home a string of strange men, led to Mez being left vulnerable, especially during that All Soul's weekend where she was home alone.

Drugs are almost certainly at the root of the crime facilitation.

ETA Would you want your kids sharing a house with reckless characters seeking "extreme experiences" and bringing home all sorts of shady people?

Never mind that NONE of this happened. These girls lived in a cottage above 4 men. One of which Mez was sleeping with. Every single girl in that cottage smoked cannabis and the victim was watering those plants. In fact, there is no evidence actually that drugs of any kind are even peripherally involved in this murder. But, hey, why let a silly thing like the facts get in the way?

What so called "extreme" experiences? Better not let your kids out of your sight then. Because people smoke grass, drink and have sex. Especially at college. Sometimes even kids who don't go to college.

 

[andreajo]

Machiavelli is tweeting from the calunnia trial.

Witnesses so far include Mignini, Napoleoni, Zugarini, Gubiotti. Machiavelli does not give details on the content, but comments that the judge appears irritated by Dalla Vedova's remarks (statements rather than questions).

ETA actually Mignini and the judge are irritated.

 

[acbytesla]

This just in. ROME - Italy's top criminal court says it threw out murder convictions against Amanda Knox and her former Italian boyfriend because there was absolutely no proof they were at the scene of her British roommate's slaying.

The Court of Cassation on Monday issued its formal written explanation, as required by Italian law, for its March ruling vindicating the pair once and for all in the legal battle over the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy.

The court wrote there was an "absolute lack of biological traces" of Knox, an American, or co-defendant Raffaele Sollecitio in the room or on the body of the victim. Slamming the quality of the prosecution's case, the court faulted the investigators for "blameworthy omissions of investigative activity."

 

[anglolawyer]

Machiavelli is tweeting from the calunnia trial.

Witnesses so far include Mignini, Napoleoni, Zugarini, Gubiotti. Machiavelli does not give details on the content, but comments that the judge appears irritated by Dalla Vedova's remarks (statements rather than questions).

ETA actually Mignini and the judge are irritated.

Can I have a transcript of Mignini's evidence, professionally translated? IIRC he wasn't in the room so how the heck does he know who hit whom

 

[Numbers]

Can I have a transcript of Mignini's evidence, professionally translated? IIRC he wasn't in the room so how the heck does he know who hit whom

According to Italian procedural law, as PM, he was in charge of the police for the investigation.

He may have directed the actions in advance, as to any hitting that occurred.

 

[anglolawyer]

Machiavelli is tweeting from the calunnia trial.

Witnesses so far include Mignini, Napoleoni, Zugarini, Gubiotti. Machiavelli does not give details on the content, but comments that the judge appears irritated by Dalla Vedova's remarks (statements rather than questions).

ETA actually Mignini and the judge are irritated.

According to Italian procedural law, as PM, he was in charge of the police for the investigation.

He may have directed the actions in advance, as to any hitting that occurred.

You are suggesting he is there to prove no one gave orders to hit anyone? Does that need actual evidence? Hopefully he'll say what time he arrived and how he reacted on being told the interrogations were not being taped.

 

[Bill Williams]

Not bizarre, it's factual Federico Martini, Amanda's drugdealer lover was jailed for serious crime.

Ah, so you're combining slut-shaming with her so-called connection to some crime completely irrelevant to the Kercher murder. Got it.

 

[Bill Williams]

Machiavelli is tweeting from the calunnia trial.

Witnesses so far include Mignini, Napoleoni, Zugarini, Gubiotti. Machiavelli does not give details on the content, but comments that the judge appears irritated by Dalla Vedova's remarks (statements rather than questions).

ETA actually Mignini and the judge are irritated.

According to Italian procedural law, as PM, he was in charge of the police for the investigation.

He may have directed the actions in advance, as to any hitting that occurred.

You are suggesting he is there to prove no one gave orders to hit anyone? Does that need actual evidence? Hopefully he'll say what time he arrived and how he reacted on being told the interrogations were not being taped.

Don't shoot me for asking the question, but will there be crossexamination of anyone who is giving testimony? (I ask because there have been times - maybe one - where someone was allowed into a courtroom, had a letter they'd proportedly written, read for them, then they exited before opposition lawyers were allowed at him.)

Will Machiavelli be tweeting a fair rendering of such cross examination? Or will Machiavelli simply tweet how annoyed Mignini got?

It's good, though, that the young lad and the former-PM are finally in the same room. Wonder if we'll get all sorts of scoops once Mach is back home and can post here? Maybe Mignini and Machiavelli will discuss the final ISC motivations report over wine tonight.

 

[anglolawyer]

Amanda's drug empire was so successful she became a capo di tutti capi, masterminding her operation from her jail cell in Capanne. All the prison guards ended up in her pocket. Now, while she lives an outwardly Bohemian life on her olive oil ranch in Washington, a blood-soaked battle is raging through the Italian courts between her devoted followers and the demented Mignini and his dwindling crew of brigands, ne-er do wells, judges on the payroll, ice cream vendors ... (Continued on page 94)

Vixen - the above is a segment of the plot of the book you advised me to write. Can you run your eye over it and give me some feedback?