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Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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I was expecting an ECHR case involving Russia or Transylvania to support why Amanda’s legal team did zip and left it to Amanda to make her accusation on the witness stand, I wondered if they knew? Guess not otherwise they would have advised her of the possible outcome.
 
I was expecting an ECHR case involving Russia or Transylvania to support why Amanda’s legal team did zip and left it to Amanda to make her accusation on the witness stand, I wondered if they knew? Guess not otherwise they would have advised her of the possible outcome.

Just once in a blue moon, I gotta agree with you Coulsdon. I don't know what the strategy was. Didn't Maori repudiate what she said? Or was that something else? Whatever. It's a bizarro world over there, fer sure.
 
Really? You think someone wielding a knife for "extreme experiences" is "a healthy young woman"?


What proof do you have that she wielded a knife? I forgot, Your belief is based on your sick fantasy and nothing else. Again where is the call, text or email between Rudy and Amanea/Raffaele? You see its stupid to think your way. Amanda was supposed to work that night so she communicated with Patrick. Where is the communication with Rudy that night? Or any night? Or day? How about calls between Raffaele and Rudy?

Nope. It doesn't take a Mensa member to figure out that there is no way, those 3 got together that night. But I guess basic logic isn't on the Mensa quiz.
 
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Just once in a blue moon, I gotta agree with you Coulsdon. I don't know what the strategy was. Didn't Maori repudiate what she said? Or was that something else? Whatever. It's a bizarro world over there, fer sure.

Aaah! Labor day tomorrow, explains everything! Catch up bro!!:cool:
 
I was expecting an ECHR case involving Russia or Transylvania to support why Amanda’s legal team did zip and left it to Amanda to make her accusation on the witness stand, I wondered if they knew? Guess not otherwise they would have advised her of the possible outcome.

Welcome back, CoulsdonUK.

I was taking a little nap while awaiting the motivation report, but your mention of the ECHR was a clear sign that I could contribute some information.

I regret, however, that the case-law I will cite does not involve Transylvania, but rather a neighboring State.

Hajnal v Serbia 36937/06 19-06-2012

Violation of Article 3, Substantive and Procedural aspects.

Regarding the procedural aspect:

Para. 94-95. The Government claimed that the applicant failed to file the appropriate written complaint as required. Furthermore, there was insufficient evidence that the applicant had been abused. The applicant maintained that he had brought his claim of abuse properly to the attention of judges and the competent prosecuting authorities.

Para. 96-99. The Court (ECHR): There must be an official investigation of credible assertions of abuse. Even when, strictly speaking, no complaint has been made, an investigation must be started if there are sufficiently clear indications that ill-treatment has been used. In the present case...the Court further notes that the applicant had indeed complained of having been abused by the police. He did so before the investigating judge and the deputy public prosecutor, as well as the trial and appellate chambers. Yet, despite the Convention and the domestic law requiring that an allegation of this sort be explored ex officio, no separate abuse-related investigation...was ever instituted by the competent authorities....there has been a violation of Article 3 of the Convention.

I hope the above satisfies your needs and those of others with questions about this matter. To tie in the above ECHR case-law with the Knox calunnia conviction against Lumumba, and her claims of abuse at her Nov. 5/6, 2007 interrogation, let us recall that Knox alerted the authorities about the alleged abuse in her Memoriale 1 of Nov. 6, soon after the interrogation. This was handed over to the police. It was the obligation of the Italian authorities upon receipt of that document to launch an investigation, which could have included having Knox fill out any complaint forms their bureaucracy would like.

Based upon prison phone intercepts, it is believed that Knox had been warned (perhaps by her lawyers) to not file a formal complaint, for fear that the Italian authorities would retaliate by worsening her conditions of incarceration. She did, however, testify to being abused, and apparently followed up by mentioning the alleged abuse in each appeal. Furthermore, the Italian authorities did not conduct an independent, effective investigation of her allegations. Instead, they retaliated against her by charging her with calunnia against the police. Her trial for that charge will have a hearing on 7 September 2015. There was also a retaliation by the police against her parents for repeating her allegations to the UK journalist, John Follain; her parents, but not Follain or his newspaper, were sued for defamation.

I believe all of these facts will be considered by the ECHR when it judges Knox's case, which will happen probably sometime in the next 1, 2, or 3 years.
 
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Welcome back, CoulsdonUK.

Based upon prison phone intercepts, it is believed that Knox had been warned (perhaps by her lawyers) to not file a formal complaint, for fear that the Italian authorities would retaliate by worsening her conditions of incarceration. She did, however, testify to being abused, and apparently followed up by mentioning the alleged abuse in each appeal. Furthermore, the Italian authorities did not conduct an independent, effective investigation of her allegations. Instead, they retaliated against her by charging her with calunnia against the police. Her trial for that charge will have a hearing on 7 September 2015. There was also a retaliation by the police against her parents for repeating her allegations to the UK journalist, John Follain; her parents, but not Follain or his newspaper, were sued for defamation.

I believe all of these facts will be considered by the ECHR when it judges Knox's case, which will happen probably sometime in the next 1, 2, or 3 years.

What CoulsdonUK will not concede is the obvious. There was no evidence against Sollecito or Knox. All the "evidence" which caused the two of them along with **Lumumba** had collapsed, and still they were enduring solitary confinement and harsh conditions.

Knox even was given a bill to pay for one of the items of evidence used against her, an item which eventually collapsed.

It is the height of 20/20 hind-sight to suggest (post March 2015 exonerations) that they should have launched a full frontal defence against being hit at interrogation, but it is exactly as you say - the PLE was in total control of the two, and as you say, they were not shy about extending their judicial harassment to Amanda's parents.

If it was not harassment, why did they not similarly charge John Follain, the author of the alleged parents defamation? It was obvious, judicial persecution to shut up the parents.....

So tell me again, why would they go after the being-abused-in-interrogation charge, when they were (then) facing a full monty of murder charges?
 
Look, folks, it's pretty simple: If you're discussing a 16th century German priest, you are probably off topic. If you're wondering about Paul's letter to the Ephesians, you're probably off topic. If your post contains references to evolutionary neuroanatomy, you're probably off topic. If Amanda Knox herself wouldn't recognize this as a conversation about Amanda Knox, you are certainly, definitely and unreservedly off topic.

This is the second Mod warning in a very short time. Closer moderation of this thread will not be enjoyable. Thank you.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader
 
What proof do you have that she wielded a knife? I forgot, Your belief is based on your sick fantasy and nothing else. Again where is the call, text or email between Rudy and Amanea/Raffaele? You see its stupid to think your way. Amanda was supposed to work that night so she communicated with Patrick. Where is the communication with Rudy that night? Or any night? Or day? How about calls between Raffaele and Rudy?

Nope. It doesn't take a Mensa member to figure out that there is no way, those 3 got together that night. But I guess basic logic isn't on the Mensa quiz.

If you recall, Amanda wrote in her own hand she saw him in "blurry flashing images at the basketball court". Sure, she substituted the name, Patrick. However, the wording is psychologically true. Brian Draper, perp of the equally frivolous "Scream" murder, used similar phrasing for his memories of his victim's murder.

Amanda even said or wrote that she wished Mez had been murdered on the basketball court. Nice.
 
You are getting things mixed up,aren't you? (If not: "Quote, please...")

This idea I am a "slut shamer" is pure hyperbole based on the old hippie precept of , "anything goes; do thou what thou willst (cf Aleister Crowley)". Objectively, and leaving out emotive terms, such as, "degenerate", there is an undoubted link between serious organised crime and drugdealing, prostitution and pimping. Anyone buying cocaine is inadvertently supporting these activities. Amanda was actively consorting and sleeping with a cocaine dealer involved in serious crime. No doubt, this was due to the naivety of youth. OTOH it's quite wrong to call it the "passions of a healthy young woman". As we saw, Amanda's reckless behaviour led to tragic consequences, not just for Mez, but for herself, Raff and their families.

Two sets of judges at merits hearings decreed prima facie evidence showed Amanda wielded the knife, including objective scientific DNA evidence.

To pretend Amanda was only prosecuted because she enjoyed dangerous sex, is specious.
 
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Here's another, from google translate:

http://corrieredelmezzogiorno.corri...io-acab7b1c-5556-11e5-9cb9-704b6ebd96ca.shtml

Amanda and Raffaele shadow
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1
5
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A load of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito - accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher - missing a 'set of evidence "marked" by the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. " It underlines the Supreme Court in the grounds of the absolution of two former boyfriends filed this morning by the Fifth Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court. «The process - is written in the reasons - he has had a process objectively wavering, whose oscillations are, however, also the result of sensational defaillance or" amnesia "investigative and guilty omission of investigations."

No biological trace
As a matter "of undoubted significance" in favor of Knox and Sollecito - "so as to exclude their participation in material murder, despite the assumption of their presence in the house on Via della Pergola" - the "absolute lack of biological traces referring to them "in the room or on the body of the murder victim. The Supreme judges - in the judgment of 52 pages 36080 - argue that the crime scene and the body of Meredith are "instead were found numerous traces attributable to Guede," the young Ivorian definitely convicted to 16 years imprisonment for murder "in competition" with the summary procedure. As for the bra clasp of the victim, the Supreme courts point out that the "only biological traces" found on that hook does not offer "no assurance" as to its "traceability" in Raffaele Sollecito 'because that track - says the Supreme Court - It is not susceptible of second amplification, given its small size, the element so that it is devoid of evidential value. "
Doubts
According to the Supreme Court, if it were not for these defaillance investigation, and if the investigation had not been affected by these 'guilty omissions, "would" in all likelihood, allowed, right now, to outline a framework, if not certainty at least tranquilizer reliability, a view you want the guilt of foreignness "of Knox and Sollecito respect to the charge of killing the British student Meredith Kercher in Perugia on Nov. 1, 2007.
Certainty
In "troubled path and inherently contradictory," the Kercher murder trial is a "just because of irrefutable certainty: the guilt of Amanda Knox in order to slanderous accusations against Patrick Lumumba." It underlines the Supreme Court in the grounds of absolution of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. The judgment notes that the libel was confirmed by the same Knox in an "abnormal immune to psychological pressure." Thus, "a possible ruling by the European Court of Justice in favor of" the appeal in which Knox denounced "an unorthodox treatment of the investigators to him," could not "in any way tarnish" the final step in the court decision of guilt for slander, "not even in view of possible revision of the judgment, considering that the slanderous accusations that the same defendant turned to Lumumba as a result of the alleged coercion, were also confirmed by her before the PM, during the interrogation, therefore a context institutionally immune to abnormal psychological pressure. " Furthermore, such allegations - says the Supreme Court - "were also confirmed in the memorial" signed by Knox "at a time when the same accuser was alone with himself and his conscience, in terms of objective tranquility, away from environmental conditioning" .
September 7, 2015 | 13:58
 
La Repubblica is saying the Marasca report is out. It's 52 pages (!) and highlighting how everything quickly got out of hand.
 
This idea I am a "slut shamer" is pure hyperbole based on the old hippie precept of , "anything goes; do thou what thou willst (cf Aleister Crowley)". Objectively, and leaving out emotive terms, such as, "degenerate", there is an undoubted link between serious organised crime and drugdealing, prostitution and pimping. Anyone buying cocaine is inadvertently supporting these activities. Amanda was actively consorting and sleeping with a cocaine dealer involved in serious crime. No doubt, this was due to the naivety of youth. OTOH it's quite wrong to call it the "passions of a healthy young woman". As we saw, Amanda's reckless behaviour led to tragic consequences, not just for Mez, but for herself, Raff and their families.

Two sets of judges at merits hearings decreed prima facie evidence showed Amanda wielded the knife, including objective scientific DNA evidence.

To pretend Amanda was only prosecuted because she enjoyed dangerous sex, is specious.

What on earth are you talking about?

Your confirmation bias blinds you to the fact that both AK and RS have been absolved of murder. The bizarre drug dealer theories you strangely STILL see as factual, one can only shake one's head.

I guess this is what hippies do!
 
If you recall, Amanda wrote in her own hand she saw him in "blurry flashing images at the basketball court". Sure, she substituted the name, Patrick. However, the wording is psychologically true. Brian Draper, perp of the equally frivolous "Scream" murder, used similar phrasing for his memories of his victim's murder.

Amanda even said or wrote that she wished Mez had been murdered on the basketball court. Nice.

Wow! So, we're supposed to imagine how they got together? What? You think they communicated through some kind of dream experience? You keep ignoring the salient point. That Amanda met Rudy only 2 weeks earlier and by all accounts, they barely spoke to each other. In the mean time Rudy went off to Milan only to be arrested for B&E and Amanda met Raffaele.

At no time did they communicate with each other. You certainly can't prove it. You can only imagine it, which is certainly not evidence.
 
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This idea I am a "slut shamer" is pure hyperbole based on the old hippie precept of , "anything goes; do thou what thou willst (cf Aleister Crowley)". Objectively, and leaving out emotive terms, such as, "degenerate", there is an undoubted link between serious organised crime and drugdealing, prostitution and pimping. Anyone buying cocaine is inadvertently supporting these activities. Amanda was actively consorting and sleeping with a cocaine dealer involved in serious crime. No doubt, this was due to the naivety of youth. OTOH it's quite wrong to call it the "passions of a healthy young woman". As we saw, Amanda's reckless behaviour led to tragic consequences, not just for Mez, but for herself, Raff and their families.

Two sets of judges at merits hearings decreed prima facie evidence showed Amanda wielded the knife, including objective scientific DNA evidence.

To pretend Amanda was only prosecuted because she enjoyed dangerous sex, is specious.
Gee. Objective and scientific. Awesome. How the heck did she wangle her way out of that?
 
Wow! So, we're supposed to imagine how they got together? What? You think they communicated through some kind of dream experience? You keep ignoring the salient point. That Amanda met Rudy only 2 weeks earlier and by all accounts, they barely spoke to each other. In the mean time Rudy went off to Milan only to be arrested for B&E and Amanda met Raffaele.

At no time did they communicate with each other. You certainly can prove it. You can only imagine it, which is certainly not evidence.

Amanda was acquainted with Rudy. It is a fact.
 
Really? You think someone wielding a knife for "extreme experiences" is "a healthy young woman"?
You are getting things mixed up,aren't you? (If not: "Quote, please...")
This idea I am a "slut shamer" is pure hyperbole based on the old hippie precept of , "anything goes; do thou what thou willst (cf Aleister Crowley)". Objectively, and leaving out emotive terms, such as, "degenerate", there is an undoubted link between serious organised crime and drugdealing, prostitution and pimping. Anyone buying cocaine is inadvertently supporting these activities. Amanda was actively consorting and sleeping with a cocaine dealer involved in serious crime. No doubt, this was due to the naivety of youth. OTOH it's quite wrong to call it the "passions of a healthy young woman". As we saw, Amanda's reckless behaviour led to tragic consequences, not just for Mez, but for herself, Raff and their families.

Two sets of judges at merits hearings decreed prima facie evidence showed Amanda wielded the knife, including objective scientific DNA evidence.

To pretend Amanda was only prosecuted because she enjoyed dangerous sex, is specious.
That's not really an answer to my question, is it?
I wanted to know where you got the "extreme experiences" from in context with Amanda Knox "wielding a knife"?
 
What on earth are you talking about?

Your confirmation bias blinds you to the fact that both AK and RS have been absolved of murder. The bizarre drug dealer theories you strangely STILL see as factual, one can only shake one's head.

I guess this is what hippies do!

Not bizarre, it's factual Federico Martini, Amanda's drugdealer lover was jailed for serious crime.
 
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