Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

Just to show how people change the point as the thread goes on:

Ken Dine; said:
two new younger gals since for Amanda & Meredith, this was their first experience living away from their mothers' homes.

Nothing about them still living as students or any other cover spin - just plain "they had never lived away from their mothers" which is pure bull.

And Tesla if I missed it I apologize but I didn't see confirmation that West Seattle isn't in any way "around the corner" from the UW. In fact it is about as far from the UW as you can get in Seattle.

MichaelB · Aug 28, 2015

Here's an OCR of toto at Hellmann if anyone wants to put it through google translate.

Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

Ken Dine said:
The police found five (5) curly African hairs in Meredith's bedroom, so from DAY-1 the police knew that they were looking for a Black perp, and Lumumba was one of the few African men living in Perugia, and Amanda worked for Lumumba, so CASE CLOSED!

The police were under pressure to quickly close the case with all the foreign students living there, so Amanda & Lumumba both fit the bill since they could blame Meredith's murder as an aberration committed by non-Italians.

Raffaele was unfortunately Italian, so they eventually made him a bit player under the spell of Amanda (the witch). If Raffaele had played ball early on, then the police could have written his part to be the witch's unwitting new boyfriend who simply fell asleep as his witch-GF snuck out to murder.

back to start - did they know from day one they were looking for a black perp? Had they even processed those hairs on day one?

Do you all really think these speculations in the form of definitive truth are helpful in sorting out precisely what happened?

Does a PP made 2 year later with knowledge of Rudi being at the scene prove that the cops were looking for a black man on day one? They confused some fiber with hair IIRC what else could they confuse "short black kinky hairs" with?

Here is the PG Wiki summary KD referred to:

Of the over 480 tests prepared on samples, 93 of these constituted hairs or fibers. 86 were human hairs of varying length, in varying colors. The most significant colors noted were black, blonde, chestnut, light chestnut and red chestnut.
Only 3 hairs yielded DNA; all 3 hairs yielded DNA compatible with Ms. Kercher’s DNA. All 3 hairs were chestnut colored and over 15 cm long.
35 hairs were chestnut in color; the vast majority of these were found in Ms. Kercher’s room. 2 were also found on a kitchen sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
7 hairs were black in color. 6 of these were 4 cm long or less, and so likely Guede’s hair. 4 of these were on the duvet and 1 was on the mattress cover, both in Ms. Kercher’s room. 1 was also on a sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.

Of course they leave out half the hairs. So from 5 short kinky black hairs found in Meredith's they knew it was a black man that killed her right away - you know day one.

Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

Curatolo Google Translated

THE WITNESS, warned UNDER ARTICLE 497 OF THE CODE:
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, THE LAW OF FORMULA RITE.
GENERAL - Antonio Curatolo, born on 06.02.1956 in the province of Avellino.
PRESIDENT - Please prosecutor.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Mr. Curatolo good morning.
Look, in 2007 she was living outdoors?
WITNESS - Yes, I was sleeping on a bench.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Where?
HEADS - A Piazza Grimana
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - That was the exclusive place where he was, or there were other points? That is, more than anything else it was always in Piazza Grimana in this bench.
WITNESS - I was almost always in Piazza Grimana.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - How long was there?
HEADS - Seven, eight years.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - So since 2000 approximately,
HEADS - More or less.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - So every day I was there.
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Senta and even slept on the bench?
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Or even slept somewhere else?
HEADS - If it happened I was sleeping somewhere else, otherwise always slept on the bench.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - And in particular where he slept somewhere else?
HEADS - If a friend invited me to sleep at his house a few nights I went to sleep at his house.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - even slept in the park?
HEADS - You slept well at the park.
DEFENSE - AVV. Ghirga - Mr. President, can I?
PRESIDENT - If you must make a protest.
DEFENSE - AVV. Ghirga - is an objection because proven guilty of some factors relied on, the witness.
PRESIDENT - All right, here it is in preparation sum up.
DEFENSE - AVV. Ghirga - I was wondering if ...
PRESIDENT - We must clarify, Lawyer Ghirga the situation.
DEFENSE - AVV. Ghirga - I have asked for the floor to say we all know that it is proven otherwise the circumstances ...
PRESIDENT - But if we begin so we do not end more.
DEFENSE - AVV. Ghirga - And no, do not start, I asked ...
PRESIDENT - I preparatory questions, we need to understand even for the Court in fact. Of that park is spoken?
HEADS - Park Sant'Angelo.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - When the morning he woke up, she always looked at the clock?
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - is opposed because suggestive.
HEADS - Excuse me a moment ... or one talks about a person or ...
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - The defense opposes it suggestive.
PRESIDENT - We go, now that the situation is clarified we enter ...
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Look, she has already been examined in court.
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - She said she had seen in Piazza Grimana the two defendants who were talking among themselves.
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - President the defense would like to make an opposition in these terms: of course we are in the examination, a number of questions have been asked and have not had our opposition because they were unproductive but if you notice the witness continues to answer "yes" to questions already asked with an internal response. Obviously being in the examination instead must ensure that the witness responds with his statements.
HEADS - These are my own statements, I'm not inventing anything. (Inc. Overlapping voices).
ATTORNEY GENERAL - DR. COSTAGLIOLA - On the opposition Advocate I would only point out that it is already made statements in court.
PRESIDENT - Rephrase the question.
HEADS - Then do something else, because I already had ...
PRESIDENT - Wait, give time to understand the questions.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - He saw the two defendants in Piazza Grimana?
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - What were they doing?
HEADS - They were talking excitedly among themselves.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Where were they?
HEADS - A Piazza Grimana, where they play basketball.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - When you saw them
Remember that night was?
WITNESS - it was ... I think it was Halloween there was a bustle of masked boys and enjoying themselves.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - On what grounds places this episode in this evening?
HEADS - The fact that it often happens that the boys, of couples stopping in Piazza Grimana to discuss, a little 'drunk and it happens that someone, some boy leads to some, gives some "sganassone" to the girl.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - So, you see the two boys, then what did?
HEADS - I am left on the bench, I was reading and sometimes I stopped to smoke a cigarette.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - then went to sleep, right?
WITNESS - Yes, but about eleven o'clock, midnight.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Exactly. And the next day what happened? What did you see?
HEADS - In the afternoon, not so late, I have been two, one way, they came to ask us questions of the Carabinieri and the Police ... because every time lead of, come to take someone and take him away, to Aside from the questions they had done, none of us responded to what he knew, that we had not seen anything and we did not know anything. Only that to me I had a doubt that there were a bustle of cars, police and Carabinieri, at one point I looked over the railing and saw extraterrestrials before this villa, extraterrestrials would be those men in white.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - And where were these men?
HEADS - They were in front and inside.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Where?
HEADS - In front of the house and inside.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - The villa where he was staying Meredith not?
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - So you see the two boys the night before ...
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - ... then he goes to sleep, and the next day, she said, towards 13:30 14:00 are the Police, there is a bustle of Police and then she looks out and sees the house on Via Pergola number 7 ...
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - ... the Police and then white suits. Also saw an ambulance?
HEADS - I have not noticed it sincerely.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Senta but she knows when it is the night of Halloween?
HEADS - It should be 1 or 2 November, the day that we celebrate the dead.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Look, another thing I wanted to know: the night he saw the two defendants was raining?
HEADS - NO.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Here's another question: it was raining in the sense or the seat was wet ...
WITNESS - It was clean the streets because it seems to me that there was the market that Tuesdays and Thursdays are the market in Piazza Grimana.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Look, another thing, another question, she said, then told me before that he was, was there since 2000, lived in the square.
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNTNI - Piazza Grimana. Here, in recent years he has seen bus stop in front of the Arco Etrusco?
HEADS - is often to ... I saw the guys coming up to go clubbing.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - say in the late evening?
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - How many times a week, from 2000 onwards, she saw these buses?
HEADS - I can tell you the week one, two, a couple of times a week.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Remember the days?
HEADS - Should be Saturday and Thursday.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - I'll give you one last question, then she said he had seen the bus that evening when he saw the two boys and then the next day said, after rising at about 13:30 14:00 came the Carabinieri and then she saw that there was the police at the villa, in the little house ...
HEADS - It is.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - He wanted to know this, she is sure that the next day when he saw the two boys was the police in the house and those with white suits?
HEADS - It is.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - Are you absolutely sure about this?
WITNESS - Yes, of course, quite sure as I'm sitting here.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - It 'just as some say we have seen the bus or may have confused? It could be...
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - President, there is opposition to this question, of course, the prosecutor must ask questions, he said.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - All right. Then I do the contestation, the minutes of intake information of November 7, 2008 ...
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - The summary text or the transcript?
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - No, .this is only summary November 7. Okay, I repeat the question then, she is absolutely certain that the day after seeing the two boys who spoke she was called by the police at 13:30 and 14:00 Police saw the house on Via della Pergola ...
HEADS - It is.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - ... and the white suits.
WITNESS - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - DR. MIGNINI - No further questions.
PRESIDENT - Please.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Look, I wanted to ask, if you remember the evening there was also in the square, she spoke of all these ...
HEADS - Other people? If there were other people?
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - If you want while responding to this: there were other people?
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - There were also, was that people making jokes? There were masks, there was what she called casino?
HEADS - It is.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Masks, what kind of masks?
HEADS - were masked guys.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Those that are seen in Halloween? Masked ...
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - I understood: Look, one more thing, somehow this, you talked about these coaches etc., also noted that the two boys currently defendants in reality there were in fact in the evening when there were
these buses?
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - All right. And in particular how it is that she has this memory, how is it that is so safe?
HEADS - Because the guy lives in front of a Tunisian restaurant where I often went to eat and where the Tunisians invited me to eat.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - You and this then she says: "I'm sure he is," the question is: how can you say: "I'm sure that there were these two and there were these coaches"? Coaches like is that you remember them?
HEADS - Why I were in front.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - And then she remembers both defendants both these coaches.
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - And these were the coaches coach those with children who go to the disco?
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Around what time?
HEADS - At about half past nine, ten, eleven.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Look, the day instead at what time he saw these people dressed in white?
HEADS - two o'clock, after I saw the Police.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Thank you, no further questions.
PRESIDENT - Are there any other questions?
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - Look, sorry, you said you always lived in Piazza Grimana on the bench.
WITNESS - Yes.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - The physiological needs, his physiological needs where they going to do?
HEADS - Huh?
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - If you had to go to the bathroom, where his needs made them? He said he was always there all day.
WITNESS - No, and be 'there are also ... I call them "the bushes".
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - Which is?
HEADS - What are their names? The roadsides.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - but always in Piazza Grimana?
HEADS - there is near. Below.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - So he walked away?
WITNESS - No.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - No way do the physiological needs then.
WITNESS - Yes I walked away to do the needs ...
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - Always in Piazza Grimana, across the street? Where?
HEADS - Downstairs, there is a way, where is the villa ...
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - So sometimes retreating anyway.
WITNESS - Yes, but to be close.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - Look, how that is done on the road? How and who has chosen to live on the street?
HEADS - Because ... I really am an anarchist but I read the Bible and I became a Christian anarchist.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - So what? He chose ...
HEADS - So I chose this ...
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - To know, to know ...
HEADS - ... to make the life of Christ I chose to stage this kind of life.
JUDGE - Look, where he lives now? Because he said ...
HEADS - Now they gave me the disability id ... for my leg and my arm that I fell and I had two operations.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - But now he is in a nursing home? Where do you live?
HEAD - live at home.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - But it is not so ...
HEADS - Not now.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - You have a criminal record?
WITNESS - Yes.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - For what types of crimes?
HEADS - Several, several short some previous drug, earlier for political reasons ...
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - But he was also using drugs or just ...
WITNESS - No, no, I have always used drugs.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - Even now?
WITNESS - No, not now.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - And in 2007?
WITNESS - Yes.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - What kind of drug used?
HEADS - I used heroin.
JUDGE - DR. ZANETTI - All right, enough.
HEADS - I should point out that heroin is not a hallucinogen.
PRESIDENT - Thank you, may go.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - No Excuse. on the question of the Judge in ether.
PRESIDENT - Please.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - But now she is detained?
WITNESS - Yes.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - is under house arrest?
WITNESS - No not yet.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - He is being held in jail?
HEADS - Detained in prison.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - In execution of a final sentence?
HEADS - Dunno, I still I did not understand anything but think of you.
DEFENSE - AVV. Bongiorno - Okay, thanks.
HEADS - They took me and took me to prison.
PRESIDENT - Okay, can go qrazie. [/ SPOILER] [/ QUOTE]
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Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

Is there a video of ole Curatolo?

anglolawyer · Aug 28, 2015

That was it? Where was the part where he is supposed to have remembered the time he arrived in the square precisely to the minute? I consider my reconstruction of Quintavalle's testimony more authentic.

Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

anglolawyer said:
That was it? Where was the part where he is supposed to have remembered the time he arrived in the square precisely to the minute? I consider my reconstruction of Quintavalle's testimony more authentic.

Of course yours is better. Of course this is Curatolo and it does seem leading the witness is kosher.

ETA - From March of 2008 - I told you. I was sitting on the bench around 9:30, 10:00, and I was there until around midnight.

MIGNINI And when did you see these two kids?

CURATOLO Until before midnight when I got tired of reading, I lit a cigarette, I watched the people that went by, the movement that was in Piazza Grimana, and then I didn’t see them anymore.

MIGNINI So you saw them until shortly before midnight and…

It would appear the time(s) is a changin'

anglolawyer · Aug 28, 2015

Grinder said:
Of course yours is better. Of course this is Curatolo and it does seem leading the witness is kosher.

It's hilarious from start to finish. Not a court room, nor even opera but panto.

Strozzi · Aug 28, 2015

Grinder said:
back to start - did they know from day one they were looking for a black perp? Had they even processed those hairs on day one?

Do you all really think these speculations in the form of definitive truth are helpful in sorting out precisely what happened?

Does a PP made 2 year later with knowledge of Rudi being at the scene prove that the cops were looking for a black man on day one? They confused some fiber with hair IIRC what else could they confuse "short black kinky hairs" with?

Here is the PG Wiki summary KD referred to:

Of the over 480 tests prepared on samples, 93 of these constituted hairs or fibers. 86 were human hairs of varying length, in varying colors. The most significant colors noted were black, blonde, chestnut, light chestnut and red chestnut.
Only 3 hairs yielded DNA; all 3 hairs yielded DNA compatible with Ms. Kercher’s DNA. All 3 hairs were chestnut colored and over 15 cm long.
35 hairs were chestnut in color; the vast majority of these were found in Ms. Kercher’s room. 2 were also found on a kitchen sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.
7 hairs were black in color. 6 of these were 4 cm long or less, and so likely Guede’s hair. 4 of these were on the duvet and 1 was on the mattress cover, both in Ms. Kercher’s room. 1 was also on a sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.

Of course they leave out half the hairs. So from 5 short kinky black hairs found in Meredith's they knew it was a black man that killed her right away - you know day one.

I will try to put this delicately but I must ask why curled black hair is interpreted as coming from a man of sub-saharan African descent? Could it be from a man of Mediterranean descent? Giacomo? Marco? Koko? Even Mignini who wore booties but did not put on his chemical warfare gown ???

Laura and Filomena have black hair, don't they? Could it be from one of them, down south? And if they wax could it be they are overdue and sporting the furry look? Could the curly black hair be from one of them - from some overlooked crevice towards the backside? Maybe we need to ask Marcos or the handyman?

Just asking in the interests if science.

Ken Dine · Aug 28, 2015

Grinder said:
[ ]

And Tesla if I missed it I apologize but I didn't see confirmation that West Seattle isn't in any way "around the corner" from the UW. In fact it is about as far from the UW as you can get in Seattle.

I realize that you never make any mistakes (that you'll admit to), but you originally had claimed that West Seattle wasn't "around the corner from mom's house" when mom lived in West Seattle:

Grinder said:
Ken you don't know what you are talking about. First of all West Seattle isn't around the corner from mom's house no matter how you define it.

I realize that you obviously had a brain fart there, but admit your brain fart and let's move on.

Geeze!

Ken Dine · Aug 28, 2015

Strozzi said:
I will try to put this delicately but I must ask why curled black hair is interpreted as coming from a man of sub-saharan African descent?

Good Grief! An African person's hair is NOT curly (wavy) and it's visibly KINKY!

See the below 3 classifications of human hair.

Strozzi said:
Could it be from a man of Mediterranean descent? Giacomo? Marco? Koko? Even Mignini who wore booties but did not put on his chemical warfare gown ??? (

If the suspects didn't have kinky African hair that matched the 5 African hairs that the Italian CSIs found in Meredith's bedroom, then they would be excluded as suspects.

Strozzi said:
Laura and Filomena have black hair, don't they? Could it be from one of them, down south? And if they wax could it be they are overdue and sporting the furry look? Could the curly black hair be from one of them - from some overlooked crevice towards the backside? Maybe we need to ask Marcos or the handyman?

Just asking in the interests if science.

Are you really being serious, or just trying to be politically correct?

Racial Determination of hair

A human hair can be associated with a particular racial group based on established models for each group. Forensic examiners differentiate between hairs of Caucasoid (European ancestry), Mongoloid (Asian ancestry), and Negroid (African ancestry) origin, all of which exhibit microscopic characteristics that distinguish one racial group from another.

Head hairs are generally considered best for determining race, although hairs from other body areas can be useful. Racial determination from the microscopic examination of head hairs from infants, however, can be difficult, and hairs from individuals of mixed racial ancestry may possess microscopic characteristics attributed to more than one racial group.

The identification of race is most useful as an investigative tool, but it can also be an associative tool when an individual's hairs exhibit unusual racial characteristics.

Caucasoid (European)
Hairs of Caucasoid or Caucasian origin can be of fine to medium coarseness, are generally straight or wavy in appearance, and exhibit colors ranging from blonde to brown to black. The hair shafts of Caucasian hairs vary from round to oval in cross section and have fine to medium-sized, evenly distributed pigment granules.

Mongoloid (Asian)
Hairs of Mongoloid or Asian origin are regularly coarse, straight, and circular in cross section, with a wider diameter than the hairs of the other racial groups. The outer layer of the hair, the cuticle, is usually significantly thicker than the cuticle of Negroid and Caucasian hairs, and the medulla, or central canal, is continuous and wide. The hair shaft, or cortex, of Mongoloid hair contains pigment granules that are generally larger in size than the pigment granules of Caucasian hairs and which often appear to be grouped in patchy areas within the shaft. Mongoloid hair can have a characteristic reddish appearance as a product of its pigment.

Negroid (African)
Hairs of Negroid or African origin are regularly curly or kinky, have a flattened cross section, and can appear curly, wavy, or coiled. Negroid pigment granules are larger than those found in Mongoloid and Caucasian hair and are grouped in clumps of different sizes and shapes. The density of the pigment in the hair shaft may be so great as to make the hair opaque. A Negroid hair shaft exhibits variation or apparent variation in diameter because of its flattened nature and the manner in which it lies on the microscope slide. Twisting of the hair shaft, known as buckling, can be present, and the hair shaft frequently splits along the length.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm

RWVBWL · Aug 28, 2015

21:27-21:28

anglolawyer said:
That was it? Where was the part where he is supposed to have remembered the time he arrived in the square precisely to the minute? I consider my reconstruction of Quintavalle's testimony more authentic.

Heya Anglolawyer,
Good to see ya back at the ISF discussion table!

What you are remembering is not from The Hellmann Court,
it's from The Massei Court, waaaay back in March of 2009.
Perugia Shock covered it well back then, have a read, it's classic Frank Sfarzo:

Sunday, March 29, 2009
The Day of Foolery
SUPER FAKE WITNESS

What was needed? Elements setting Amanda and Raffaele out of his house during the crime time? Well, they arrived. Antonio Curatolo, the homeless guy, the first and main Superwitness, the one who was supposed to nail Amanda and Raffaele saw them at the basketball court from 21:30 to 23:30. So, they were not at his place. But, if he's right, they were not even assailing Meredith.

Curatolo knew he had to study his part well, that he couldn't afford to to screw-up. Apparently he was aware of what not to say. The masks and the witches are wrong. So he eliminated them. The buses to the discotheque are fine. So he inserted them. Then he needed to show details, and how he could fix the presence of Amanda and Raffaele to exact times. Who knows how many times he repeated to himself this concept and so he tried. But he tried too much, he added too many details, imaginary details, wrong details.

It seems that he's been working hard to remember, but probably he forgot that Amanda and Raffaele had to be there only after 22:30-23:00.
He maybe thought that having seen the lovebirds only for a few minutes wasn't enough and in an effort to be credible he extended their presence to the whole period, providing them, in this way, an alibi for the crime. Or proving that his testimony was a fake.

No surprise, that's what happens when you rely on lunatics. People who can learn the same lesson a hundred times and still getting it wrong.
Curatolo was so worried about fixing the time that besides recalling that he goes to check it to the electronic board --on the other side of the square-- he added, today, that he also checks it on his own watch. But he had always stated not to have a watch. So Massei asked him to show his watch. And he didn't have it. Massei asked him if he could be more precise about his arrival time because 21:30-22:00 was a bit vague. And he did get more precise, much more precise: 21:27-21:28!

This is Antonio Curatolo, he can tell you exactly what you want to hear, he can tell you anything and the opposite of anything. He, as I always said, is simply a psychiatric case.
Now everyone realizes it. Even those who went to interview him and found him totally rational and credible. Even the judge Micheli, probably, while reading about today's hearing. Everyone was laughing at him in the courtroom. At him and at the heroes who discovered the Superwitness in that hard to reach place, the street.
<snip>

* * *

Gotta luv old "Toto" the tramp...
RIP Antonio Curatolo,
here's hopin' your heaven is full of heroin, hard benches and starry nights!

acbytesla · Aug 28, 2015

Grinder said:
Just to show how people change the point as the thread goes on:

Nothing about them still living as students or any other cover spin - just plain "they had never lived away from their mothers" which is pure bull.

And Tesla if I missed it I apologize but I didn't see confirmation that West Seattle isn't in any way "around the corner" from the UW. In fact it is about as far from the UW as you can get in Seattle.

I confirmed it. And Ken admitted he exaggerated maybe a little. But in all fairness, it's not like Amanda went to an out of state college. I can appreciate your desire to be precise Grinder, but I think you could work on your approach to correcting the errors of others. Every nitpick of yours seems to evolve into a pissing match.

Ken Dine · Aug 28, 2015

Strozzi said:
I will try to put this delicately but I must ask why curled black hair is interpreted as coming from a man of sub-saharan African descent? Could it be from a man of Mediterranean descent? Giacomo? Marco? Koko? Even Mignini who wore booties but did not put on his chemical warfare gown ???

Laura and Filomena have black hair, don't they? Could it be from one of them, down south? And if they wax could it be they are overdue and sporting the furry look? Could the curly black hair be from one of them - from some overlooked crevice towards the backside? Maybe we need to ask Marcos or the handyman?

Just asking in the interests if science.

Upon reflection, I think that you may have been making a joke about the CSI possibly finding "down south" curlies from one of the gals instead of from Guede's head?

If so, I apologize for sounding harsh in my 1st reply. I really do like a good joke!

Strozzi · Aug 28, 2015

Ken Dine said:
Upon reflection, I think that you may have been making a joke about the CSI possibly finding "down south" curlies from one of the gals instead of from Guede's head?

If so, I apologize for sounding harsh in my 1st reply. I really do like a good joke!

Thank you for your answer which is a scientific explanation of the differences between hair of three racial types. Of course, to examine a hair closely so as to evaluate its physical characteristics one would normally use a microscope. I need to refresh my memory. Did eagle-eye Stefanoni examine the hairs under a microscope? Does she know of the scientific explanations you cited above? Or did she jump to a conclusion after eyeing some curly black hair? How tightly curled are Italian hairs compared to African hairs? What happens to such hairs when damp as could occur during a bad hair day?

Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

Ken Dine said:
I realize that you never make any mistakes (that you'll admit to), but you originally had claimed that West Seattle wasn't "around the corner from mom's house" when mom lived in West Seattle:

Gosh what a great get. Man was I stupid. Of course mom doesn't live around the corner from West Seattle.

Grinder · Aug 28, 2015

acbytesla said:
I confirmed it. And Ken admitted he exaggerated maybe a little. But in all fairness, it's not like Amanda went to an out of state college. I can appreciate your desire to be precise Grinder, but I think you could work on your approach to correcting the errors of others. Every nitpick of yours seems to evolve into a pissing match.

Takes two to ~~tango~~ have a pissing match. Tesla he claimed that both Meredith have never lived away from home and later that West Seattle is just around the corner from the UW and then that Edda's house was only 14 minutes from downtown apparently not realizing that the UW is mile further from downtown.

I don't see this as being precise just mildly accurate. Btw, Tesla, where do think the idea they never left home before came from? Why wouldn't he just admit that he was totally wrong, because he was and is. They both lived away from home for 3 years and Amanda spent time in Japan.

Ken Dine · Aug 28, 2015

Strozzi said:
Thank you for your answer which is a scientific explanation of the differences between hair of three racial types. Of course, to examine a hair closely so as to evaluate its physical characteristics one would normally use a microscope. I need to refresh my memory. Did eagle-eye Stefanoni examine the hairs under a microscope? Does she know of the scientific explanations you cited above? Or did she jump to a conclusion after eyeing some curly black hair?

When I was younger I had two African (ancestry) roommates, probably for a total of 3 years. I first lived with my friend George in Las Vegas for about a year. During that year his younger brother, Joe, moved in with us.

Their father was a retired Army General (from Texas), General George Shuffer, who had around 13 kids. His kids were basically Army brats, and when the General retired to Texas, he became a preacher, which is probably why I ended up with one of his kids.

Several months after I moved back to el Lay, Joe (who was only around 17 y/o at the time) called me and said he wanted to live in California and asked if he could move in with me. He was a great kid, so YES to that, and he lived with me for over 2 years. Joe eventually moved south and married an English gal. We are all still friends.

Truthfully, back then (30 years ago) I don't have any memories of finding African curlies on the toilet seat, but I probably noticed some at the time, and I'm pretty sure they probably looked different than my curlies?

In any event, you don't need a microscope to tell the difference between a tightly wound kinky African hair and a straight or wavy European hair.

Strozzi said:
How tightly curled are Italian hairs compared to African hairs? What happens to such hairs when damp as could occur during a bad hair day?

Are you still kidding me?

Planigale · Aug 28, 2015

Strozzi said:
Thank you for your answer which is a scientific explanation of the differences between hair of three racial types. Of course, to examine a hair closely so as to evaluate its physical characteristics one would normally use a microscope. I need to refresh my memory. Did eagle-eye Stefanoni examine the hairs under a microscope? Does she know of the scientific explanations you cited above? Or did she jump to a conclusion after eyeing some curly black hair? How tightly curled are Italian hairs compared to African hairs? What happens to such hairs when damp as could occur during a bad hair day?

I think this describes the issue.

We have a description of black fibres (hairs). We do not have any further description. We do not know if they were straight, wavy, or kinky. If they were head hair or pubic hair. If the hair was dyed or natural in colour. I seem to remember there is a comment about length, but it is unclear how accurate this is, if it represents the longest hair or an average. There is no record of formal (microscopic) analysis. We do not even know if the hairs were human (as opposed to wool, cat, dog, or even artificial fibre).

There is a wish for them to be 'African', to explain the focus on an 'African' as a suspect early in the investigation. This may be true it may not, we just do not have the facts for this to be any more than a supposition.

acbytesla · Aug 28, 2015

Grinder said:
Takes two to ~~tango~~ have a pissing match. Tesla he claimed that both Meredith have never lived away from home and later that West Seattle is just around the corner from the UW and then that Edda's house was only 14 minutes from downtown apparently not realizing that the UW is mile further from downtown.

I don't see this as being precise just mildly accurate. Btw, Tesla, where do think the idea they never left home before came from? Why wouldn't he just admit that he was totally wrong, because he was and is. They both lived away from home for 3 years and Amanda spent time in Japan.

Yes it DOES take two. You just have this approach to resolving discrepancies that results in 20 pages of pissing on the other person. Not exactly from Dale Carnegie's book "How to win friends and influence people".

While I agree that Ken was wrong, (sorry Ken) it's ticky tacky nonsense, not worth the dialog.

Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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