Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Right on,
thanks for the info.

Too bad you can not help me out,
for this info has apparently never been publicly revealed,
and it would be interesting to see if blood drops were indeed seen
on Stefano's bed on November 2nd, '07.

Especially if we could prove,
by simply watching a video,
that Dr. Stefanoni lied again on the stand.

You do know that PM Mignini was nearby
as Flyin' Squardon officer Zugarini broke in the boyz window, right?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=10043[/qimg]

I wonder if PM Mig'i went inside the boyz flat when their door was opened?

I'm gettin' a bit of a weekened buzz as I sip a cold cocktail
and watch some live Pro Surfin' go down right now in Tahiti:
http://www.worldsurfleague.com/events/2015/mct/1267/billabong-pro-tahiti/live

So I'll betcha a Jack + Coke
that PM Mig'i did indeed enter the boyz downstairs flat
after Zugarini kicked in the window and entrance was finally gained.
PM Mignini should have been seen on the missing 11 minutes + 16 seconds of video
from the Downstairs Crime Scene on Nov. 2nd.

What if Mig'i is seen inside Stefano's bedroom
and lots of blood is seen on Stefano's bed and duvet?

Stefanoni is then a "lying lier",
a term that ISF member RoseMontague created.
And Dr. Comodi and PM Mignini are,
what???





Heya Bruce Fischer,
I though, am still interested in this case
that we here at The ISF like to discuss,
daily.

Who the **** are you to tell me that I,
(and others also still interested in doing so too),
look pathetic for doin' so!?!




Look man,
years ago, back in Nov. 2010 when Miss Knox was still imprisoned after the Massei Trial verdict,
I wrote this here, on The JREF, back when you too were a "Phil Connors" so to say:




Bruce Fischer,
when I wrote this,
I kinda envisioned Miss Knox doing something
like the mission that you have now endeavored upon. Not you.
Ya know, Miss Knox publicly arguin' for justice against The System for what she,
and many others believed, was an unjust conviction and imprisonment.

Heck,
I'm sure there are plenty of unjust convictions like from Perugia, Italy
here in the U.S.A.,
right?

Esh,
I can still recall how you mis-spelled your last name here on The JREF
and then also arguin' with Alfukugood
on the early incarnation of your website.

But with that said,
my time is my own.

Who the heck are you,
a dude runnin' an LLC nowadays,
(a dude who joined up here on The JREF, now The ISF,
back in 2010 at the same time as myself in April '10),
to tell me what the **** I oughta be doin' with my free time?
You don't write me a paycheck, buddy boy!
Pfffft.

RW






You're welcome,
Bruce Fischer.

Yes, indeed,
the guy designs and creates some incredible work.
My 2¢ only,
RW


PS - If you ever wanna help us pathetic individuals
who still like to daily debate this case here on The ISF that we are interested in,
please ask Charlie Wilkes or Raff or Miss Knox or their lawyers
if they can watch an old DVD and see if there is an original copy of the video
from the Downstairs Crime Scene.

Heck,
maybe then they would share this with us,
the pathetic folks who are still interested in this horrible rape + murder.

I'd really luv to see PM Mignini inside Stefano Bosnini's bedroom
on that 1st day, with all the blood on Stefano's bed
on those deleted, err, lost, err, missing 11 minutes + 16 seconds of footage.

Or watch PM Mignini wander around the boyz flat
after the video dude some how turned off the camera,
or deleted the scenes that followed the filming the marijuana nursery,
who never apparently entered any of the boyz bedrooms downstairs
on the day of discovering Miss Kercher raped + murdered upstairs...
RW

Hey Randy I agree with you. Who is Bruce Fischer to call you pathetic when all a dude wants to do is surf, get hammered and make out with Melissa?

Time to realise these guys aren't interested in the truth. All that concerns them is they got their clients off the hook.

They know, we know, you know the kids ain't innocent, but heck one of em's American so there's a gungho reason for gunning for'em.

 

[Vixen]

So tell us Vixen. Why did the police stop looking for a 4th, 5th or 6th perpetrator? Did they get tired....or did the semen testing budget run dry?

There were two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA. Unless it's on a criminal database or someone to match it to, they will be unable to put a name to it. It might be completely innocuous.

 

[Vixen]

So, do you think the Masons were behind it?

Virtually all the founding fathers were masons, so wouldn't be so strange.

 

[Desert Fox]

There were two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA. Unless it's on a criminal database or someone to match it to, they will be unable to put a name to it. It might be completely innocuous.

There is a solution to the problem. . . . .

Convict ever person in the world of every crime that ever happened and lock them all up. After all, maybe they are guilty.

 

[Planigale]

There were two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA. Unless it's on a criminal database or someone to match it to, they will be unable to put a name to it. It might be completely innocuous.

Vixen. Are you too lazy to read up anything about this case or do you deliberately post untruths? There were more than two lots of unidentified DNA, and of course Knox's and Sollecito's DNA were not unknown (though Guede's was initially).

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Hey Randy I agree with you. Who is Bruce Fischer to call you pathetic when all a dude wants to do is surf, get hammered and make out with Melissa?

Time to realise these guys aren't interested in the truth. All that concerns them is they got their clients off the hook.

They know, we know, you know the kids ain't innocent, but heck one of em's American so there's a gungho reason for gunning for'em.

It would be nice if you followed the entire conversation before commenting. But why bother with that? Who is it that has no interest in the truth? We happen to be discussing the bigger picture. This case can and should be used as a learning tool in the future to help others who have been wrongfully convicted. Prosecutors should also be held accountable for acts of misconduct.

 

[Methos]

One random postcard on the floor of Filomena's room had Amanda's footprint on it. Make of that what you will. <fx sits back to await contrived convoluted explanation #umpty-9>

That's interesting, where does that information come from? Rinaldi mentions those shoeprints in his report on pages 22-27, but he says that all of them are: "Non utile per i confronti positivi ma utile per i confronti negativi." He doesn't mention any footprints.

There were two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA. Unless it's on a criminal database or someone to match it to, they will be unable to put a name to it. It might be completely innocuous.

Are you playing word games here? Which traces do you think are the "two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA."?

Could you please remind me, how many DNA reference samples were taken in this case? It must have been embarrassing for Stefanoni to have all those unidentifies "Uomos" (up to #8) and "Donnas" (at least #3) in her presentation, especially because it would have been easy to rule out the other housemates by asking them for a reference sample.

It looks like they didn't ask them because finding mixed traces of Romanelli/Kercher or Mezzetti/Kercher or traces of mixed DNA of all of them would further weaken the argument that the mixed traces of Kercher and Knox mean anything.

IIRC the argument was "We found no traces of Meredith Kercher's DNA mixed with the other housemates, so the mixed traces we found of Kercher and Knox have to be related to the murder." It should have been: "We didn't find mixed traces of Meredith Kercher and the other housemates, because we didn't look for them and even if we had found other mixed traces, we wouldn't have been able to identify the other housemates because we didn't have their reference samples."

 

[Planigale]

It would be nice if you followed the entire conversation before commenting. But why bother with that? Who is it that has no interest in the truth? We happen to be discussing the bigger picture. This case can and should be used as a learning tool in the future to help others who have been wrongfully convicted. Prosecutors should also be held accountable for acts of misconduct.

We can pressure the press / professional societies to be more skeptical about forensic science. We need journals like Science and New Scientist to be saying forensic scientists need to have standards and theories need to be rigorously tested before being presented in court.

 

[RWVBWL]

Dude,
your LLC owns and/or runs this site, right?:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/

Yes. Great site isn't it?
The people in our group who work on that site have done a great job. We are hopeful that the case can be used as a learning tool.

Hiya Bruce Fischer,
The new look to your site linked above is definitely, different.
And a pain in the ** to use for research.
I hope Iam only catchin' it as it is being re-done, as when I tried to search for Witness Depositions, nothing came up.

Anyways,
with that said,
after spending the day hangin' wioth my bro-ette Koko at the beach, well I still wanna see PM Guiliano Mignini walk around the boyz downstairs flat in this case that still interestd me.

Gosh, the PM was sooo excited to check out
Stefano, Marco, Giacomo, and Ricardo's pad that he already had his cute lil' booties on!


Where's that vid?

I'll admit it too, we do too, as does most anyone else whose discussed this case for years, go Round + Round, (err, ain't that an old Ratt song?)

 

[RWVBWL]

Dude,
your LLC owns and/or runs this site, right?:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/

Yes. Great site isn't it?
The people in our group who work on that site have done a great job. We are hopeful that the case can be used as a learning tool.

Hiya Bruce Fischer,
I agree, good work!

After spending the day hangin' with my bro-ette Koko at the beach,
she in her cute lil' bikini and I in trunks on a gorgeous summer day in L.A,
well I still wanna see PM Guiliano Mignini walk around the boyz downstairs flat
on Nov. 2nd in this case that still interests me.

Gosh,
it seems that the PM was sooo excited to check out
Stefano, Marco, Giacomo, and Ricardo's pad
that he already had his cute lil' blue booties on!

Where's that vid?

Ok,
I'll admit it too,
we do too, as does most anyone else on the WWW
who has discussed this case for years,
go Round + Round,
(err, ain't that an old Ratt song?).

With that said,
it was interesting for me to read an old post yesterday,
1 where as I debated with Kermit, of all people,
here on the JREF back in 2010, about The Down Stairs Crime Scene
as [SIZE="-7"]Raffaele[/SIZE] and Miss Knox were still imprisoned
for a horrible crime that Italian Justice has now declared them
to be Not Guilty of!


Also interesting to read is the Witness Depositions from Nov. 2nd,
of Stefano:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Stefano-Bonassi-Statement-2-Nov-2007.pdf

Marco:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Marco-Marzan-Statement-02-Nov-2007.pdf

and Ricardo:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Riccardo-Luciani-Statement-02-Nov-2007.pdf

Not a cop asked them about blood being found in their residence,
yet...

The next day though,
Stefano(*) was quizzed on this:
A. The small bathroom is used by all to shower and we leave the window open, as a rule, to let the shower floor dry up.

A. Before leaving, we washed the linens from our beds; mine were blue; we spread them in the hall where we prepared three strings. I don't know what to say regarding the blue pillowcase stained with blood because it was hanging and clean when I left.

A. We have two cats. We keep the black one in the house; the other is more of a stray one and stays outside. The black cat fell ill on Tuesday, October 26, I think; its right ear was injured. However I remember that it was eating; under the small sink in the small bathroom it lost a lot of blood because it was shaking its head. Those days, Meredith had the keys from from my place.

A. I don't know how to explain the traces of blood on my duvet given that my door was locked with a key as well as the window. Ricardo had also closed (locked) everything.

A. In the hall, on the plate of the light switch, I do not remember having noticed stains of blood.

* * *

Question for you kind folks:
Where is a photo or Crime Scene video of the blood on the plate of the light switch???
No way that it looks like the bloody finger marks on Miss Kercher's wall above her bed, right?

Odd how I have never seen a photo or vid of this bloody light switch plate.
Has anyone else here seen it?

What,
did the cat miss when jumping up and turning off the light?
It only got blood on the light switch plate?

Ecks,
it almost makes me visualize what those cuts on "poor Rudy's" hand,
if still slightly bleeding, would have looked like.
Might his bloody hand have left some of his blood down on that light switch plate?

Or was it from the cat?


Room mate Ricardo(*) also had something interesting to say:
A. I am not aware of any of us having an injury to a hand.


Ricardo also had this to state:
"On Saturday, when I left, I took a shower and left the bath slippers near the French door. To be precise, I have lived in this house since September 2006. There has never been any leakage of water from the window. I left my room in order. There was certainly a bag with dirty laundry either on the floor by the side of the desk or upon it, hardly on the bed."

I find it odd that a dude who leaves town for a few days + locks his bedroom door,
somehow has a bag of dirty laundry tossed about on his bed...

My 2¢ for tonight,
RW


(*) - Witness Depositions:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/

 

[Mike1711]

There were two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA. Unless it's on a criminal database or someone to match it to, they will be unable to put a name to it. It might be completely innocuous.

Just wondering what suspicious DNA looks like?

We know Rudy was "there" but somehow you only want to believe some of his lies. He only mentioned one other person at the scene (how convenient). Then he changed his mind to sort of, maybe, thinking he perhaps saw Knox as well.

Other than that he remains utterly silent and the police seem unconcerned about this silence. Never mind the "fast track" trial which not only ignored his lies, they then went on to reward him by reducing his sentence....a court procedure which normally only rewards honest testimony by the guilty.

Vixen, how can you remain silent about Rudy's reduced sentence if you believe he withholds information crucial to the total solution to the crime? Could it be that he was the only perpetrator and should he talk he would only further incriminate himself as the only murderer?

How many psychopathic killers do you think can cram into one tiny room? ...and what are the chances of a whole bunch of psychopaths randomly meeting one evening and within minutes plotting and executing a random murder?

The obvious seems to allude you.

Mignini was only interested in tailoring the evidence to fit his random theories and the police forces haphazard forensic work. He did this for narcissistic self serving reasons. It's obvious.

Clearly Mignini cares nothing of the truth and everything about his ego. The truth sat right on his face and to this day he still hates to see it.

If you truly cared about Meredith and her family your efforts would be best served hounding Rudy for the truth and leaving the innocent alone.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Hiya Bruce Fischer,
The new look to your site linked above is definitely, different.
And a pain in the ** to use for research.
I hope Iam only catchin' it as it is being re-done, as when I tried to search for Witness Depositions, nothing came up.

Anyways,
with that said,
after spending the day hangin' wioth my bro-ette Koko at the beach, well I still wanna see PM Guiliano Mignini walk around the boyz downstairs flat in this case that still interestd me.

Gosh, the PM was sooo excited to check out
Stefano, Marco, Giacomo, and Ricardo's pad that he already had his cute lil' booties on!


Where's that vid?

I'll admit it too, we do too, as does most anyone else whose discussed this case for years, go Round + Round, (err, ain't that an old Ratt song?)

We are experimenting with the theme to see if the responsive theme works. It appears that the responsive part works great but the regular site does not. We will be reverting back to the old theme for now.

 

[RWVBWL]

We are experimenting with the theme to see if the responsive theme works. It appears that the responsive part works great but the regular site does not. We will be reverting back to the old theme for now.

Thanks for the input,
I kinda figured that you might be tinkerin' with it right now!



Hey Ken Dine and anyone else interested,
the boyz cat,
already hurt, was left inside the downstairs house.

From Ricardo:
A. In these days of absence, I heard from the other boys that Giacomo left a set of house keys to Meredith so she would take care of the cat, particularly to treat it with Frontline.

A. Frontline is an anti-parasitic treatment; however, as for the ear injury, that was being treated with a disinfectant and in any case with water and salt.

* * *

I wonder what the cats reactions were when Zugartini broke in
and then PM Mig'i and his workers went into all the rooms?

Odd, I still can't see PM Mignini do this on video.
I wonder why?

Surely there was nothing to hide from the public about the boyz downstairs flat, right?

I mean, heck, they did film and show us the marijuana plants,
on the afternoon of Nov. 2nd as Miss Kercher still lay murderedunder her duvet,
and cops were heard laughing inside there,
right?

What would they cops wanna hide?
Some blood seen on a light switch plate?
Some blood seen on Stefano's duvet,
behind his locked door, on Nov. 2nd?
Hmmmm...


Here's another tidbit from Ricardo,
before I hit the sack:
A. I have never noticed spots of blood on the switch in the living hall.

A. I do not recall any of us bleeding and drying oneself with a pillowcase.

A. I have not heard Stefano complain of finding blood on the beige duvet on his bed.

A. I have never noticed traces of blood on the casing of the window in the small bathroom.

Link:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...s/2007-Nov-03-Police-deposition-Luciani-3.pdf

 

[Numbers]

Thanks for the input,
I kinda figured that you might be tinkerin' with it right now!



Hey Ken Dine and anyone else interested,
the boyz cat,
already hurt, was left inside the downstairs house.

From Ricardo:
A. In these days of absence, I heard from the other boys that Giacomo left a set of house keys to Meredith so she would take care of the cat, particularly to treat it with Frontline.

A. Frontline is an anti-parasitic treatment; however, as for the ear injury, that was being treated with a disinfectant and in any case with water and salt.

* * *

I wonder what the cats reactions were when Zugartini broke in
and then PM Mig'i and his workers went into all the rooms?

Odd, I still can't see PM Mignini do this on video.
I wonder why?

Surely there was nothing to hide from the public about the boyz downstairs flat, right?

I mean, heck, they did film and show us the marijuana plants,
on the afternoon of Nov. 2nd as Miss Kercher still lay murderedunder her duvet,
and cops were heard laughing inside there,
right?

What would they cops wanna hide?
Some blood seen on a light switch plate?
Some blood seen on Stefano's duvet,
behind his locked door, on Nov. 2nd?
Hmmmm...


Here's another tidbit from Ricardo,
before I hit the sack:
A. I have never noticed spots of blood on the switch in the living hall.

A. I do not recall any of us bleeding and drying oneself with a pillowcase.

A. I have not heard Stefano complain of finding blood on the beige duvet on his bed.

A. I have never noticed traces of blood on the casing of the window in the small bathroom.

Link:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...s/2007-Nov-03-Police-deposition-Luciani-3.pdf

RW,

Thanks for your several very good posts on the downstairs crime scene, and for pointing out that Mignini may well have entered the downstairs flat.

It's clear to me that early on, perhaps by Nov. 3 or 4, the police and prosecutor had decided to eliminate the evidence in the downstairs flat from their theory of the crime in order to formulate their false case against Amanda. Obtaining the missing video segment would help provide persuasive documentation of this allegation of official misconduct.

 

[Vixen]

Just wondering what suspicious DNA looks like?

We know Rudy was "there" but somehow you only want to believe some of his lies. He only mentioned one other person at the scene (how convenient). Then he changed his mind to sort of, maybe, thinking he perhaps saw Knox as well.

Other than that he remains utterly silent and the police seem unconcerned about this silence. Never mind the "fast track" trial which not only ignored his lies, they then went on to reward him by reducing his sentence....a court procedure which normally only rewards honest testimony by the guilty.

Vixen, how can you remain silent about Rudy's reduced sentence if you believe he withholds information crucial to the total solution to the crime? Could it be that he was the only perpetrator and should he talk he would only further incriminate himself as the only murderer?

How many psychopathic killers do you think can cram into one tiny room? ...and what are the chances of a whole bunch of psychopaths randomly meeting one evening and within minutes plotting and executing a random murder?

The obvious seems to allude you.

Mignini was only interested in tailoring the evidence to fit his random theories and the police forces haphazard forensic work. He did this for narcissistic self serving reasons. It's obvious.

Clearly Mignini cares nothing of the truth and everything about his ego. The truth sat right on his face and to this day he still hates to see it.

If you truly cared about Meredith and her family your efforts would be best served hounding Rudy for the truth and leaving the innocent alone.

A team of Massei's judges went to visit the scene and seven or more of them fit into Mez' room very comfortably with ample space to spare. Your theory "no way three psychos could fit in Mez' room" is dead in the water.

From bloody tissues and a blunt knife in the bushes, cops thought they were looking for another unidentified couple.

Incidentally, police do not rely on suspects and perpetrators for their information! Innocent is what they all say!

 

[Strozzi]

The Amanda Knox case has likewise opened my eyes to abuses in our American justice system. The so-called Kayak Murder by Angelika Graswald in New York also smells to high heaven. Since I live in California there's not much I can do about a New York case, except watch:

http://nypost.com/2015/04/30/woman-charged-with-fiances-murder-in-kayaking-accident/

On a practical level, how I've applied lessons learned in the Amanda Knox case is by talking about it with family members and friends, to hopefully make them better jurors should they ever be picked for a case with similarly bogus evidence presented by the prosecution.

I have the same experience. I have discussed this case at length with friends and family. As a result, my sister discussed it at various times with a co-worker and was stunned to hear her co-worker state after the Nencini Court upheld the guilty verdict that "she (Knox) must be guilty because several courts found her guilty".

I also served on a jury some years ago (before I began following this case) where the prosecution made statements that I felt were unsupported by the evidence. I regarded them as "trust me" statements, which in this case were statements the prosecutor made to persuade the jury to believe him on points when the evidence did not support his claims.

However, the most surprising and disconcerting thing was that after being instructed twice in the courtroom by the judge that the defendant had the constitutional right not to testify and that the jury should not make any inference from it, the moment we jurors sat down in the jury room 3 jurors blurted out that they thought the defendant guilty because "if he was innocent he would have taken the stand". Another juror and I educated our fellow jurors about what the judge meant when he said we were to make no inferrence of guilt from the defendant not testifying. The jury ultimately voted 12 to 0 that the defendant was not guilty.

 

[Vixen]

That's interesting, where does that information come from? Rinaldi mentions those shoeprints in his report on pages 22-27, but he says that all of them are: "Non utile per i confronti positivi ma utile per i confronti negativi." He doesn't mention any footprints.


Are you playing word games here? Which traces do you think are the "two lots of suspicious unidentified DNA."?

Could you please remind me, how many DNA reference samples were taken in this case? It must have been embarrassing for Stefanoni to have all those unidentifies "Uomos" (up to #8) and "Donnas" (at least #3) in her presentation, especially because it would have been easy to rule out the other housemates by asking them for a reference sample.

It looks like they didn't ask them because finding mixed traces of Romanelli/Kercher or Mezzetti/Kercher or traces of mixed DNA of all of them would further weaken the argument that the mixed traces of Kercher and Knox mean anything.

IIRC the argument was "We found no traces of Meredith Kercher's DNA mixed with the other housemates, so the mixed traces we found of Kercher and Knox have to be related to the murder." It should have been: "We didn't find mixed traces of Meredith Kercher and the other housemates, because we didn't look for them and even if we had found other mixed traces, we wouldn't have been able to identify the other housemates because we didn't have their reference samples."

Not even Stefanoni can fake a DNA profile. That belongs in the realms of Asimov and Heinlein.

Your theory the mixed DNA of Mez and Amanda was carefully planted by cops is sci-fi at its wackiest.

 

[Kauffer]

Not even Stefanoni can fake a DNA profile. That belongs in the realms of Asimov and Heinlein.

Your theory the mixed DNA of Mez and Amanda was carefully planted by cops is sci-fi at its wackiest.

Mixed DNA is a feature of shared facilities in shared accommodation. In the large bathroom, if it had been properly tested, there would have been multiple mixed DNA samples of all the housemates.

 

[Kauffer]

A team of Massei's judges went to visit the scene and seven or more of them fit into Mez' room very comfortably with ample space to spare. Your theory "no way three psychos could fit in Mez' room" is dead in the water.

From bloody tissues and a blunt knife in the bushes, cops thought they were looking for another unidentified couple.

Incidentally, police do not rely on suspects and perpetrators for their information! Innocent is what they all say!

The problem is not fitting four people in the room. The problem is fitting four people in the room with three of them engaging in a brutal, violent and bloody knife attack on the third, yet only one of them leaving any evidence of the assault behind. It becomes even more of a problem when the only member of the trio to leave multiple traces behind, including numerous print traces in blood, is not the person hypothesised to have actually delivered the slaughtering blows.

This scenario is not capable of replication.

 

[Bill Williams]

The problem is not fitting four people in the room. The problem is fitting four people in the room with three of them engaging in a brutal, violent and bloody knife attack on the third, yet only one of them leaving any evidence of the assault behind. It becomes even more of a problem when the only member of the trio to leave multiple traces behind, including numerous print traces in blood, is not the person hypothesised to have actually delivered the slaughtering blows.

This scenario is not capable of replication.

Note how the note you're responding to has to spice it up with a description of fitting all those "psychos" in the room.

Let's leave aside for a moment that those 8 Massei panel members found no ppsychopathology.

It is as you say. It is possible to fit all 8 of those panel members into one of those iconic, red Brit call booths.

What is not possible is as you say - that two of them come out of the space represented by Meredith's room neither leaving forensics there nor taking forensics with them.

Guilters have always wanted both. No forensics left or taken, combined with Knox delivering the decisive blow.

No wonder the pair was ultimately acquitted.