Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Diocletus said:
Yes. Both samples, including the TMB sample, returned Guede profiles.
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So then Rudy was bleeding? If the tix isn't Rudy originally, then when did he come into possession of it, if not that night?

And is it possible there were other profiles from the ticket, in the same way there were mixed profiles from the bra clasp?

Could the profiles of other people, even in non LCN quantity, have been concealed from the results of the tix, which show only Rudy?
 
Grinder said:
In his Skype conversation it is clear that some reports had "sperm" found and Rudi vehemently denies it is his. I forget which Skype it was but I think it was the one on YouTube. My point is that Rudi was/is good at covering with stories and he had plenty of time for this one.

It is on the YouTube and he says "that it is all crap what they say about finding sperm male sperm..."

He also says they just did oral. Giacomo brings up the "findings" in challenging Rudi to say more.

This line of questioning raises the question: Why ask him this stuff if they were trying to minimize his involvement? This is the 19th of November well after many here think they were minimizing his involvement IIUC.
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This is pretty much the extent of it:

GB:

Like...in the newspapers it says that...well, you must have done something with her if...

RG:

Yes but in fact, I'm telling you we did just ...oral stuff. Nothing, no penetration, because I didn't have a condom, we didn't do anything. And so it's all crap according to me that they said they found my...sperm...male sperm. Then I, that... it's not mine because we didn't do anything.
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The funny thing is, Rudy is right: the cops didn't find his "sperm." They found his "skin" cells on the vaginal swab.

He also seems to be saying that he didn't ejaculate in her. Which of course is accurate, and a detail only he would know. The issue is why he would say this, if he knew that he did ejaculate right next to her.

Maybe he thinks for some reason that this semen that the newspaper is referencing was located in her vagina, and knowing that he didn't leave any there, he feels like maybe he has an opportunity to direct to some other guy. Again, not sure how he rationalizes what he left right next to her, if the police find it.

I'd like to see this newspaper article that he alludes to.
 
Diocletus said:
Yes. Both samples, including the TMB sample, returned Guede profiles.
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Do we know where exactly in his apartment the ticket was recovered? From a trousers (pants) pocket? So, he's bled on the ticket then? Seems awfully random that he comes back to his apartment and picks up the ticket, which happens to be there and has been there for months. Unless it happened to be in the pocket of the pants he wore to the burglary at the cottage.
 
Diocletus said:
This is pretty much the extent of it:
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Do you have a source you can copy and paste?

The funny thing is, Rudy is right: the cops didn't find his "sperm." They found his "skin" cells on the vaginal swab.

He also seems to be saying that he didn't ejaculate in her. Which of course is accurate, and a detail only he would know. The issue is why he would say this, if he knew that he did ejaculate right next to her.
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That's been my point. If he had donated some semen to the pillow why not make up a story about getting too excited and cumming? Since clearly it was in the media, even if he forgot, why not make up the cover story?

Maybe he thinks for some reason that this semen that the newspaper is referencing was located in her vagina, and knowing that he didn't leave any there, he feels like maybe he has an opportunity to direct to some other guy. Again, not sure how he rationalizes what he left right next to her, if the police find it.

I'd like to see this newspaper article that he alludes to.
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Maybe check Italian news. I did give an English language snip that indicated they had found something.

ETA - I tried a search no luck but did discover that semen is "sperma" in Italian.
 
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Diocletus said:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rudy_Guede's_Skype_Conversation

I guess we're looking at a translation by "Thoughtful", FWIW.
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I attempted to follow the link given to La Stampa, the source cited in themurderofmeredithkercher, but only obtained the current (13/8/2015) edition.

It's been pointed out previously (perhaps in a post by Planigale) that Guede would realize that his semen deposit on a pillow under Meredith's body was too highly incriminating to be included in his story. It should be recalled that a shoe sole imprint in one of the semen deposits on the pillow appears consistent with Guede's shoes, suggesting that the alleged semen was deposited during Guede's visit on Nov. 1, 2007. Perhaps Guede was not inventive enough to devise a cover story for the putative semen deposits, or, less likely, had forgotten about them. Another possibility is that he assumed or hoped that they had degraded so as to make them non-traceable.
 
Numbers said:
I attempted to follow the link given to La Stampa, the source cited in themurderofmeredithkercher, but only obtained the current (13/8/2015) edition.

It's been pointed out previously (perhaps in a post by Planigale) that Guede would realize that his semen deposit on a pillow under Meredith's body was too highly incriminating to be included in his story. It should be recalled that a shoe sole imprint in one of the semen deposits on the pillow appears consistent with Guede's shoes, suggesting that the alleged semen was deposited during Guede's visit on Nov. 1, 2007. Perhaps Guede was not inventive enough to devise a cover story for the putative semen deposits, or, less likely, had forgotten about them. Another possibility is that he assumed or hoped that they had degraded so as to make them non-traceable.
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I highly doubt the last possibility. It is also possible he didn't leave the donation.

He covered most every aspect of the event except the semen and he had read that it had been found. Even if he had forgotten about it, why wouldn't he after reading about it, come up with a story. Makes no sense.
 
Grinder said:
I highly doubt the last possibility. It is also possible he didn't leave the donation.

He covered most every aspect of the event except the semen and he had read that it had been found. Even if he had forgotten about it, why wouldn't he after reading about it, come up with a story. Makes no sense.
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But then, Guede's killing and raping Meredith really made no sense either.
 
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Grinder said:
He covered most every aspect of the event except the semen and he had read that it had been found. Even if he had forgotten about it, why wouldn't he after reading about it, come up with a story.
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I don't think there was a story about semen for him to have read.
 
Diocletus said:
I don't think there was a story about semen for him to have read.
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This one perhaps?
clue.gif
La Repubblica Nov 7, 2007:
Nell'appartamento, la polizia scientifica, insieme al sangue, ha individuato alcune decine di impronte e sta lavorando all'individuazione di possibili tracce di liquido seminale che verranno presto incrociate con campioni biologici prelevati dai fermati. Potranno aiutare a stabilire se Amanda ha cominciato a dire la verità o ne continua ad occultare parte significativa.
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Methos said:
This one perhaps?
clue.gif
La Repubblica Nov 7, 2007:

Nell'appartamento, la polizia scientifica, insieme al sangue, ha individuato alcune decine di impronte e sta lavorando all'individuazione di possibili tracce di liquido seminale che verranno presto incrociate con campioni biologici prelevati dai fermati. Potranno aiutare a stabilire se Amanda ha cominciato a dire la verità o ne continua ad occultare parte significativa.
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Seminal fluid?

You're kidding me, right?

How did an Italian newspaper know already that Dr. Stefanoni
was heard on video talking with her lab assistant Alessi,
discussing testing of seminal fluid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXKyMh48KQ&app=desktop

"Ok Alessa,
so it's like this, then tomorrow in detail basically
I'll explain all the samples and what they are
even if it's written clearly near the bags
blood and seminal fluid, exactly."

"Presumed seminal fluid of course, so...
Yes, yes, yes obviously we'll have to do both, eh
Let's give priority to that one, as that one
will certainly have to go to Rome this evening"...
 
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Methos said:
This one perhaps? [qimg]http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/images/smilies/clue.gif[/qimg] La Repubblica Nov 7, 2007:
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Google translate to English version:

In the apartment, police science, along with the blood, identified dozens of fingerprints and is working on the identification of possible traces of semen that will soon be crossed with biological samples taken from stopped. They can help you determine whether Amanda began to tell the truth or he continues to conceal significant part.
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This newspaper quote seems very significant. If the police had identified the putative semen stain on the pillow, as they should have, and ran the DNA testing immediately, on Nov. 2 or 3, by Nov. 6 the police should have had the DNA profile. This news item is from Nov. 7.

I interpret this news item as further indication that the police and prosecutor knew on or before Nov. 8, 2007, the date of the arrest hearing for Knox, Sollecito, and Lumumba, that neither male was the source of the semen. But this was not disclosed at the arrest hearing. That is bad faith, an extreme violation of the European Convention of Human Rights.
 
Hiya Number's,
This is what I got when I translated using SDL:
In the apartment, the scientific police, along with the blood, has identified some tens of impressions and is working on the identification of possible traces of seminal fluid that will be soon crossed with biological samples taken from stopped. Be able to help determine if Amanda has started to tell the truth or it continues to conceal significant part.
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It sure seems like Dr. Stefanoni wanted someone's seminal fluid,
presumed seminal fluid tested when she was speaking to her assistant Alessa.

For some reason,
maybe it was because she had to get Special Permission to work on this case in Perugia,
I've doubted that Dr. Stefanoni was talking with her lab assistant about some other rape case
whose seminal fluid needed priority testing.
My 2¢,
RW
 
Desert Fox said:
I suspect that the judges involved will drag their feet as much as possible so that they can get the ISC motivation report to know what the feel is from above.
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Surely ye jest. I think we have learned that the Italian legal system is incredibly efficient. Right Mach?
 
acbytesla said:
Surely ye jest. I think we have learned that the Italian legal system is incredibly efficient. Right Mach?
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Actually, I am most scared of an efficient legal system. Most likely they will not be too concerned about fairness.

My though though is that even their claim that precedent does not exist in the Italian legal system, I think in practice it does.
 
Desert Fox said:
Actually, I am most scared of an efficient legal system. Most likely they will not be too concerned about fairness.

My though though is that even their claim that precedent does not exist in the Italian legal system, I think in practice it does.
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A certain degree of efficiency is important. Granted, it is more important to be fair.
 
Numbers said:
1. Some of the profiles from Guede's flat were suppressed, including that from the sink trap. There may have been profiles of Meredith's DNA detected in Guede's flat and suppressed. Or perhaps there is some other reason for the suppression - such as mixtures that could not be attributed to persons in the case.

2. The massive suppression by the police and prosecutors of the DNA results from the downstairs flat suggests to me that indeed Guede went downstairs to washup and change, and left his blood and DNA and Meredith's blood and DNA in the downstairs flat. The police questioning of the boys from downstairs indicates that the downstairs evidence was critically important, but the treatment of that blood and DNA evidence by the police and prosecution as derived from a cat - without any scientific verification - is telling. In fact, the DNA was shown to be human because it replicated under PCR, which is accomplished with a primate-specific enzyme. So potentially exculpatory evidence relevant to the case was suppressed.
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Primate-specific enzyme, eh? Well, I've got to ask so as to leave no stone unturned and make sure Stefanoni doesn't come up with a "look, squirrel" explanation. Did any of the guys downstairs own a monkey? :p
 
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codyjuneau said:
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That has puzzled me also. Is there some reason he could not have woven it into his story?

Perhaps the answer is in the DNA of the semen stain which the police and courts have adamantly refused to test, or more likely refused to release the results of the test.

Maybe the semen stain DNA results reveal all.

Cody
.
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Rudi may not have woven the semen stain into his story because it is somewhat of a delicate matter, he being a gentleman and all. If confronted by Mignini with the semen issue, Rudi may have given Mignini an explanation and Mignini may have decided to not publicize it in order to protect the victim's honor and keep the court from learning what a jerk Rudi was.

Besides, doesn't Rudi agreeing to a fast-track trial mean that the prosecution will not develop or present any new evidence beyond what they already had developed?
 
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