Heaven Makes No Sense

[arthwollipot]

This looks like a "god works in mysterious way" type of argument. Spending eternity in mindless adoration strikes me as inhuman. It must be mindless or you might start thinking this wasn't such a great deal.

You might think so now, but not when you're there, because you'd be in a constant and timeless state of bliss.

 

[Rincewind]

You might think so now, but not when you're there, because you'd be in a constant and timeless state of bliss.

Ah - brainwashing!

 

[Leumas]

You might think so now, but not when you're there, because you'd be in a constant and timeless state of bliss.

In other words... DEAD!!

 

[tsig]

You might think so now, but not when you're there, because you'd be in a constant and timeless state of bliss.

Kinda like a plant, soaking up the sunshine.

I really can't express how horrible your heaven is. If you took a human and removed all sensory input and then pumped the brain full of euphoria inducing chemicals would that be heaven on earth?

 

[AdamSK]

But you're in no hurry to get there, right?

I'll stay here as long as there is work for me to do here. I'll leave when it's time for me to leave.

 

[tsig]

In the Garden of Eden humans were gardeners and since in heaven humans will be returned to pre-Fall conditions it looks like an eternity toiling in the hot sun.

 

[Z]

Heaven is exactly like where you are right now, only much, much better.

 

[arthwollipot]

Kinda like a plant, soaking up the sunshine.

I really can't express how horrible your heaven is. If you took a human and removed all sensory input and then pumped the brain full of euphoria inducing chemicals would that be heaven on earth?

But no, it's not like that all. CONSTANT STATE OF BLISS!!! COMMUNION WITH GOD!!!!1!

Oh, and it's not "my" heaven. I gave all that stuff up years ago.

 

[tsig]

Not at all, because you're with God, and bathed in perfect peace and love, remember? Everything is perfect, so you would not long for anything else. That's the whole point.

But no, it's not like that all. CONSTANT STATE OF BLISS!!! COMMUNION WITH GOD!!!!1!
Oh, and it's not "my" heaven. I gave all that stuff up years ago.

If all you are going to do is repeat CONSTANT STATE OF BLISS!!! COMMUNION WITH GOD!! with no explanation then I guess we are done.

 

[arthwollipot]

If all you are going to do is repeat CONSTANT STATE OF BLISS!!! COMMUNION WITH GOD!! with no explanation then I guess we are done.

Like I was years ago.

 

[GT/CS]

But what if I want to golf, or swim in the ocean, or play with my dog. Are you saying I can't do that in Heaven?

 

[tsig]

Like I was years ago.

Then why did you post?

 

[arthwollipot]

Then why did you post?

The question was asked, I happened to have a personal experience, and I thought I might be able to contribute to the discussion. Why did you post?

 

[stanfr]

The question was asked, I happened to have a personal experience, and I thought I might be able to contribute to the discussion. Why did you post?

tsig posts, therefore he is.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

You might think so now, but not when you're there, because you'd be in a constant and timeless state of bliss.

By having to spend eternity with the grown up version of Anthony Fremont? Sounds less like bliss and more like torment

 

[stanfr]

In other words... DEAD!!

Dead is blissful? Hmmm, not so sure of that. I can't even call deep sleep blissful cause I have no consciousness of it. REM sleep perhaps...

 

[stanfr]

By having to spend eternity with the grown up version of Anthony Fremont? Sounds less like bliss and more like torment

L'Enfer--C'est les Autres!!

 

[stanfr]

Well, I didn't imply that you actually believe it. It doesn't even matter, really. If someone wants to explain how the non-Euclidian bubble in Call Of Cthulhu works, they certainly don't have to believe that Cthulhu is real.

Just, well, if you want to explain how it works, I'm really interested in, you know, how it works.

Well, unless what you wanted to say is that Xians find some meaningless quips to say, so they can stop thinking about it. In which case we can just agree.

I'll buy that. However, I do have absolute proof that God (well...a certain god) exists! See for yourself:

Here

 

[Loss Leader]

As Arthwollipot indicates, once you introduce "God" into the equation, all other questions become meaningless. Will you live forever in an earthlike state? Will people who you don't like but who like you be able to bother you? Will you be overrun by dogs or not get to see your dog at all?

The answer is, "It'll be perfect because God." Whether you can comprehend what that means or not, "because God" is all the answer you need (and all you get) once you grant his existence in the first place.

That's why I never argue with theists about whether heaven would be a silly place or eternal torment would be a little severe. There's no point. God knows everything and whatever he does is perfect and that's all you need to understand.

Once you give in on the God question, you lose every other argument.

 

[arthwollipot]

Once you give in on the God question, you lose every other argument.

That was one part of my point, yes. But I also wanted to point out that a lot of atheists - especially those who do not have a personal lived experience as a Christian - do not understand what Christians actually believe about some things. They assume that Christians believe in a particular thing - a personified heaven with clouds and harps and stuff, for example, and prayer being about asking God for stuff, for another - and never actually get to the point of considering what it is that they actually believe.

I have only a limited experience with one kind of evangelical Pentecostal Christianity, but what I remember of the theology frequently differs wildly from what some lifelong atheists believe Christians believe. Different sects may come closer, perhaps, but that's outside my experience.