• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

California is doomed

lionking said:
Does California have desalination plants?
Click to expand...

lionking said:
Just looked it up. Building some. This is the answer. Apart from anything else, building large plants will break the drought, as it did in Sydney and Melbourne which built plants so far unused. ;)
Click to expand...

That's just because, when you build desalination plants, God makes it rain. He loves irony.
 
lionking said:
Just looked it up. Building some. This is the answer. Apart from anything else, building large plants will break the drought, as it did in Sydney and Melbourne which built plants so far unused. ;)
Click to expand...
Desal requires lots of electricity, which is something else Californians like to pretend they're too good for.
 
In the meantime, we have a-holes like the CEO of Nestle declaring that he should be allowed to bottle MORE water for private sale:

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/05/15/3659415/drought-isnt-nestles-problem/

and a former CEO saying that all water should be privatized:

http://naturalsociety.com/nestle-ceo-water-not-human-right-should-be-privatized/

and spoiled rich people who demand unlimited water for their lawns/pools/ etc

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c6f998-0e39-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html
 
I listened to the podcast on the way to work this morning. Jaybus! :eek:

You couldn't get a better case study in the pathological nature of an unbounded capitalist system operating in a world of hard physical limits.

I had some issues with the way the tragedy of the commons was framed by the presenters as being a foible of human nature. It's really not, it's a foible of the socio-cultural structures that developed in Europe. For the vast span of human history, people have worked together in common to utilise their environment and conserve it for the common good. Our way is not set in stone, it's not "human nature", it's just culture. And cultural systems can change.

Also, can anybody, perhaps Dinwar, talk to how ancient this aquifer is? Does it have high replenishment rates, or is a matter of once it's gone it's gone. I'm vaguely familiar with the Great Artesian Basin here in Australia, which was formed when that part of the country was under the ocean and water was trapped under a sedimentary layer - it has very low replenishment rates and is essentially a non renewable resource.
 
Last edited:
bit_pattern said:
I listened to the podcast on the way to work this morning. Jaybus! :eek:

You couldn't get a better case study in the pathological nature of an unbounded capitalist system operating in a world of hard physical limits.
Click to expand...

You don't have to see it as pathological. The resource dries up (literally!) and people leave. That area returns to being a desert.

"Don't eat the last cookie, or we'll be out of cookies."
"Yeah, but I want a cookie. And isn't the point of having cookies in the eating?"
"Well, yes, but if you eat the last cookie, there won't be any cookies for your children to eat."
"But you mean for my children to not eat, right? Or are they somehow going to avoid the same dilemma you describe for me?"
"No, no, no. We are going to have a sustainable number of cookies. We are going to have enough for a few people to eat and then make them stop eating before we run out."
"How are your artificial limits on cookie eating going to have any different effect than the limits set by the actual number of cookies?"
"Look, you aren't getting it. Cookies have an intrinsic value, and we ought to have some around."
"But isn't that value directly derived from the ability to eat them? If I can't eat them, where's the value?"
"It's a conceptual thing. You will never understand. You are a bad person."
"So... can I have that cookie now?"
 
bit_pattern said:
I had some issues with the way the tragedy of the commons was framed by the presenters as being a foible of human nature. It's really not, it's a foible of the socio-cultural structures that developed in Europe. For the vast span of human history, people have worked together in common to utilise their environment and conserve it for the common good. Our way is not set in stone, it's not "human nature", it's just culture. And cultural systems can change..
Click to expand...

Oh, FFS. The societies that have lived in harmony to conserve their environment have been low population, non-industrial people. They haven't had an impact on the land because there weren't many of them, not because they were PHD's in land management.

So sure, our way isn't set in stone... all California needs to do is 'lose' 99% of its population and all its industry and modern agriculture... then it can replicate "the vast span of human history, people have worked together in common to utilise their environment and conserve it for the common good. "
 
Giz said:
Oh, FFS. The societies that have lived in harmony to conserve their environment have been low population, non-industrial people. They haven't had an impact on the land because there weren't many of them, not because they were PHD's in land management.

So sure, our way isn't set in stone... all California needs to do is 'lose' 99% of its population and all its industry and modern agriculture... then it can replicate "the vast span of human history, people have worked together in common to utilise their environment and conserve it for the common good. "
Click to expand...

Best to just nuke it from space, it's the only way to be sure.
 
Last edited:
Giz said:
Oh, FFS. The societies that have lived in harmony to conserve their environment have been low population, non-industrial people. They haven't had an impact on the land because there weren't many of them, not because they were PHD's in land management.

So sure, our way isn't set in stone... all California needs to do is 'lose' 99% of its population and all its industry and modern agriculture... then it can replicate "the vast span of human history, people have worked together in common to utilise their environment and conserve it for the common good. "
Click to expand...

In the "vast span of human history" there was always more coming from somewhere, or you could go to the more somewhere else.

When what you have is all that you have, coordination and cooperation to maximize the utility of your finite resource is absolutely essential.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
As I understand it, the state's name is a distortion of the words for "Hot Oven" in Spanish. If that's a not a clue...

Just for fun, go east from LA a bit. You'll find a desert. The SoCal metroplex is dependent on water brought in from many miles away. Angelenos use about 140 gallons of water per day per person. That's not sustainable.
Click to expand...

With usage of 140 gallons/day, that's about $25/month if it's desalinated water. Residential usage in CA is sustainable. Current agricultural usage is not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom