Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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One of the things that drives me crazy in this case is the use of people's memories of inconsequential events. I usually lock even take the time to make sure I lock my car or house doors. I can't begin to tell you how often I have returned to either and found them unlocked. And this is just one example.

So when Filomena says she shut her shutters, I have a tendency to give it little weight.

Curatolo coming forth months later saying he saw Amanda in the park at a specific time. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Why would he notice a couple and the day? These people were nothing to the bum, so why would he remember them? He probably sees couple all the time. Why would he remember their faces? The Kiosk owner who said Toto was almost always on the bench. Why would he remember when he wasn't?

I saw dozens of strangers today. I might be able to recall a few of them tomorrow..but a week from today? Or even longer? Not a chance.[/QUOTE]


If one of them was "topped" shortly after, I bet this would focus your mind.
 
Wow,
was I drunk and wasted last night
when I posted those 2 pics of a recreation of the attack on Miss Kercher.

I've been in a few fist fights in years past when I've been hammered before,
blood sometimes gets everywhere.

Rudy was possibly drunk when he raped Meredith.
Most guilters believe that AK and [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] were high on something.

How did Amanda and [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] not have any of Meredith's blood on themselves?
How could they go back and forth inside Meredith's bedroom, during the attack, and as they supposedly cleaned up the evidence of their participation later, + not step in it nor leave further traces of themselves as they cleaned up inside her bedroom?

While being drunk, or wasted?

Er, they had all night to sober up. Psychos don't need to be drunk.
 
Caveat: My understanding of what I wrote below is not good. I do not mean to represent in any way that I have significant expertise with regard to the use of DNA testing for forensic purposes.

Second Caveat: I have treated the possibility that the finding of Kercher's DNA on the kitchen knife was a legitimate result for the purposes of discussion. My overall view is that it is unlikely that Kercher's DNA was on the knife.



Is there a problem with this analysis? Wouldn't the DNA have been contained within cells?

I tried to get an estimate of the mass of the DNA per the mass of an average cell and it turns out to be difficult to estimate because there is considerable variability in the mass of a cell but I came up with a rough estimate that about the mass of the DNA in a cell is about 1/1000 of the total mass of the cell.

So maybe Steffi saw about 1000 times as much stuff as the 100 pico grams of DNA would suggest or about 100 nano grams of stuff (10 ^-7 grams)

One estimate of the mass of a grain of salt on the web is 5.85 x 10^-5 grams* which is apparently the one Grinder used. If my understanding of this is correct then a rough estimate of the stuff that Steffi might have observed was that it was about 1/500 the mass of a grain of salt. However, there is the issue that red blood cells don't contain DNA and much more blood would need to be present than if the source of the DNA was from human cells that have genetic material.

So presumably if the source of the DNA was blood then the sample from the knife should have been positive for blood and the blood would have been apparent under a microscope. I think, somebody quoted a forensic scientist saying that if blood was the source of the DNA he would always expect a positive result for blood if DNA was detected. I can now understand why that might be. In blood there is a lot more stuff to react with the blood test reactants than there is DNA so that you need quite a bit of blood before you can recover DNA if blood is the source of the DNA.


* I estimated the mass of a grain of salt to be 13 x 10^-5 grams. I measured several grains of salt from our salt shaker to be about .4 mm. A cube .4 mm on a side has a volume of .064 cubic mm's which based on the 2.17 grams/cubic centimeter density of sodium chloride leads to my estimate. Apparently the guy who came up with the 5.85 x 10^-5 grams had smaller grains of salt than we do or maybe he did a better job of measuring. I used calipers and I took a macro picture of our salt grains. Both those measurement techniques yielded a value of about .4 mm for the size of our salt grains but there was considerable variability and maybe the 5.85 x 10^-5 gram estimate is a better one although given the variability of the size of a grain of salt 5.85 suggests that the estimate of the mass of a grain of salt is way more precise than it actually is.

You have identified the defense tactic of "blind with science".

Call it 1/500 of a grain of salt and the hope is people will say, wow, that's impossibly small!

Have you seen the size of sea salt?
 
Hi Katy-did,
I just wanted to give you a big shout-out and thanks
:thumbsup:
for the work that you have done to help correct the unjust conviction of [SIZE="-7"]Raffaele[/SIZE] and Miss Knox.

It's cool to see some of the folks who post here, have their names mentioned elsewhere, like here,
https://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/author/komponisto2/
where Katy_did surely helped much by translating many pages of The Conti-Vecchiotti Report,
which shows how,
(even though Vixen probably doesn't agree with it)
the work of Profs. Carla Vecchiotti and Stefano Conti of the Uni
versity of Rome — La Sapienza
played a key role in securing Knox and Sollecito’s exoneration.

The conclusions reached by Conti and Vecchiotti constitute a damning indictment of the investigation conducted by Italy’s Scientific Police, and in particular of the methods employed by the prosecution’s main forensic scientist, Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni. They lend official support to the already-widespread perception that Knox and Sollecito have been the victims of a scandalous miscarriage of justice[/QUOTE]


Still yet to be convinced.
 
I will give a similar thank you to Katy_did!

And, RW, I like the way you give emphasis to Raffaele, the forgotten victim.

Regarding Vecchiotti and Conti, they are THE reason that Amanda and Raffaele escaped being further victimized. No matter how much certain posters want to huff and puff and breath all heavy about the Hellmann decision being totally and finally annulled, their science was one of the few days of clear thinking that determined the proper outcome of this case.

roflmao
 
You have identified the defense tactic of "blind with science".

Call it 1/500 of a grain of salt and the hope is people will say, wow, that's impossibly small!

Have you seen the size of sea salt?

!/500,000 a grain of normal salt or come up with another example to express 100 pico grams.

And how could she see something that small or at least the jaws that held it.
 
!/500,000 a grain of normal salt or come up with another example to express 100 pico grams.

And how could she see something that small or at least the jaws that held it.

It's what makes her a talented forensic scientist.

A friend of mine wasn't even allowed to be a police expert witness until she got her first class in Chemistry.
 
It's what makes her a talented forensic scientist.

LOL You don't even care that the two killers got away with it do you? I would be absolutely LIVID that the Italian forensic personnel couldn't do even very basic things like, oh I don't know, collect the sexual assault victim's underwear? Not testing the presumed semen stain? Calling them talented after the suspects waltzed out of jail, primarily because of forensic screw ups, is insulting to the victim. Whose side are you on?
 
One of the things that drives me crazy in this case is the use of people's memories of inconsequential events. I usually lock even take the time to make sure I lock my car or house doors. I can't begin to tell you how often I have returned to either and found them unlocked. And this is just one example.

So when Filomena says she shut her shutters, I have a tendency to give it little weight.

Curatolo coming forth months later saying he saw Amanda in the park at a specific time. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Why would he notice a couple and the day? These people were nothing to the bum, so why would he remember them? He probably sees couple all the time. Why would he remember their faces? The Kiosk owner who said Toto was almost always on the bench. Why would he remember when he wasn't?

I saw dozens of strangers today. I might be able to recall a few of them tomorrow..but a week from today? Or even longer? Not a chance.[/QUOTE]


If one of them was "topped" shortly after, I bet this would focus your mind.

Nonsense Vixen. It doesn't. It in fact makes it incredibly dangerous that you would end up creating a false memory. A couple that you had NO REASON to remember, somehow becomes that young couple you saw arguing a 2 weeks before the murder. That is a created memory. Definitely not one to be reliable upon.
 
Does not both the 2nd grade and Cassazione trials take place regardless of whether appeals (from either side) are filed? If that's true, then all a filing is, is putting it on the record that one side wishes specific things analyzed/reinterpreted at the next level. But the next court has to sit and, I assume, issue a motivations report.

Within 90 days. And, no, I have no idea why this is day 117 and counting...... with nothing new to argue about.

Should I say something about John Follain just to make sure we get to an 18th Continuation? Vixen can't do it by herself!

Maybe I can help us get to part 18 before the motivation is released. Here is my question:
Will the motivation report be released before the Italian Supreme Court judges or their drafting assistants go on their customary August vacation or will drafting stop for the month of August and commence again in September?
 
LOL You don't even care that the two killers got away with it do you? I would be absolutely LIVID that the Italian forensic personnel couldn't do even very basic things like, oh I don't know, collect the sexual assault victim's underwear? Not testing the presumed semen stain? Calling them talented after the suspects waltzed out of jail, primarily because of forensic screw ups, is insulting to the victim. Whose side are you on?
Yea, I agree. Vixen tolerates poor forensic work by Stefanoni and her team and, by doing so, let the real killers off the hook, and threw justice for Meredith under the bus just like the rest of us pro-innocent commentators! :p
 
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acbytesla said:
I saw dozens of strangers today. I might be able to recall a few of them tomorrow..but a week from today? Or even longer? Not a chance.


Vixen said:
If one of them was "topped" shortly after, I bet this would focus your mind.


Gosh,
a fellow English gal was raped + "topped",
as you put it.

But it did not seem to focus Antonio Curatolo's,
nor Nara Capezzali's,
nor Marco Quintavalle's mind...


Vixen,
A witness who has testified in 2 previous murder trials,
who heard or saw something possibly relevant, or even something that just did not appear right,
when something as shocking as a brutal rape and murder occurred near them,
should have reported this to the police.

How come Antonio Curatolo did not tell the investigators that he saw 2 kids hangin' out for hours, arguing, and looking down from the railing last night, when he was asked if he had heard something or seen something?

MIGNINI: What did you do there that morning?

CURATOLO: I went to get a cappuccino at the café. Then I sat down at the bench, smoked a cigarette. Every so often came some kid I knew, a friend, and we chatted. But there was something strange because there was a lot of movement by the police, coming and going. We were in the Piazza until around 1:30, 2:00. Or rather, I was there for even longer, only that the Carabinieri came to ask us if we had heard something or seen something. I said I hadn’t heard anything. Apart from the kids who were out having fun that night I didn’t see anything grave. We were there for a little while, and there was this coming and going of the police. We went to look down and we saw people wearing white suits – the police, Carabinieri. There was a mess of people down there.

Link:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/antonio-curatolo/


Vixen,
Gian Luca Marini came forward and was interviewed at The Questura on Nov. 2nd. Alice Puelo was interviewed on Nov. 3rd.

Both saw something out of the ordinary and tried to help the police catch the person who raped and murdered Miss Kercher. They went to the police and reported a suspicious man in a Laundromat.

BUT Toto told the cops he hadn't heard anything last night,
even though these 2 kids were about 50 meters away from him for hours.

Weird, that.

* * *

Nara Capezzali told PM Mignini in the Massei Court, much later,
that the boyz in her building went running down to see what all the commotion was when the cops were investigating Miss Kercher's rape and murder.

Question – Then what happened that morning?

Answer – That morning while I was cleaning the house, I heard the boys coming downstairs running, saying: “Signora, signora, they have killed a girl over there in that cottage”; “Not really – I say – you lot are always carrying on!”, “No, no, I’m telling you the truth̀!” In fact they all ran to go and see, but I didn’t go because I’m not like that. Then after I went out to get the bread…

Link:
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredith-kercher-scream-compromised-witness/


Why didn't she go down there too
and tell the cops that she heard a horrible scream,
"a woman's scream, so blood curdling it made my skin crawl,”?

Heck,
Mauro Palmieri came forth on Nov. 4th to report that he received a strange text on Oct. 31st, something that he thought might be related to this terrible crime which had the town of Perugia worried.

And soon afterward,
Alessandra Formica came forward to tell the cops of a man of color who, apparently not wanting to be seen, went running by her and a guy friend as they traversed to stairs downward to their parked car, and this guy bumped in him.

(Wasn't this right near where "Toto" was hangin' out?
Odd that he never mentioned seein' this on 1 of his 4 or 5 ciggy breaks
or hearin' anybody say "Watch it, you ******' idiot"!)


Yet Nara did not tell the cops of her hearing a blood curdling scream last night for 25 days? And Toto did not come forward for almost 6 months? And Marco Quintavalle didn't come forward with his re-ah-vised story that he saw AK as he opened up his store, right near where the local newspaper reporter lived, until a year later???

* * *

I argue this case we discuss for many reasons,
1 being I had to go to court for a supposed rape.
A rape where afterwards, we both went back to sleep, in the same bed.
1 where the woman, some 9 months later, wanted some serious $$,$$$.00
Glad that my court hearing was not in Perugia, Italy,
and that a jury of 8 women, 4 men, with a female Judge believed me + found me not guilty!

I also argue because my biological father died of heroin a bit over 10 years ago.
Know some dudes from "DogTown" who surfed that like H too, and OD'd.
So I know a lil' bit about H users and some of the bull crap stories that they tell.
And I like to sometimes get smoked,
(as [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] was when interrogated on the night of Nov. 5th)
And I believe that a terribly unjust conviction was declared against [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] and Miss Knox.


How the heck can someone of your intellect believe
Antonio Curatolo, Nara Capezzali, or Marco Quintavalle?


Is it because you really, really believe the images from LifeTime movie screengrabs that I posted yesterday to be an accurate reconstruction of the rape and knifing murder of Miss Kercher?
RW
 
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Vixen,
Why didn't Antonio "Toto" Curatolo,
sitting out in the open on a chilly Holiday night,
hear that "blood curdling scream" that made Nara's skin crawl
while inside her cozy apartment with her double pane windows closed?
:confused:
 
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Heck,
for that matter,
I don't seem to recall reading that "Toto" even heard the leaves rustling,
as Nara Capezzali said she did heard from inside her, ah, apartment...
:D
 
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It's what makes her a talented forensic scientist.
.

Now I'm laughing hysterically!! Talented forensic scientists do not feel the need to hide their work product. (Refusing to disclose the Electronic Data Files) They understand that gloves need to be changed often. They don't leave the victim's bloody sweatshirt at the scene for 46 days. They get the job done. They adhere to strong forensic controls.

Even if you think Raffaele and Amanda did it, you have to admit that Stefanoni is a poor excuse for a scientist.
 
RW said:
How did Amanda and Raff not have any of Meredith's blood on themselves?
How could they go back and forth inside Meredith's bedroom, during the attack, and as they supposedly cleaned up the evidence of their participation later, + not step in it nor leave further traces of themselves as they cleaned up inside her bedroom?

While being drunk, or wasted?


Er, they had all night to sober up. Psychos don't need to be drunk.


Hiya Vixen,
I need some help,
my place is rather messy and dis-organized right now,
it could use a good cleanin'.

What do you think that Miss Knox and [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] used to clean up with overnight
in Miss Kercher's bedroom?

I'm tryin' to figure out your vision of what happened, ok?
After AK + [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] realized that ol' Curatolo was diggin' that article he was readin' in the magazine L’Espresso, they ran down to meet up with Rudy to have some fun with poor Meredith, well things got outta hand and Amanda whipped out that huuuge kitchen knife from her purse to stab Mez as Rudy and [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] held her down and watched, but afterwards Rudy felt remorseful and used the 3 towels from the small bathroom to try and save Meredith, right?

So there weren't any more towels in there, ok?

I don't seem to recall reading any of the towels
from Filomena + Laura's bathroom being missing,
do you?

And that mop that you sometimes harp on about
did not have Miss Kercher's DNA nor blood on it, right?


Do you think that [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] and Amanda headed back + forth
to and from his pad all through out the night, while drunk or buzzed,
grabbing more cleanin' supplies from his flat,
while Rudy was out dancin'?

Odd that there is no CCTV footage from the car parking lot
or other evidence of this,
right?

So how did they do The Clean Up?
 
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So how did they do The Clean Up?

It had to have been with a magnifying glass and toothbrushes since the cleaning was done at the microscopic level. Carabiners with ropes suspended from the ceiling would have to be used like when Tom Cruise broke into CIA headquarters in Mission Impossible.:cool:
 
Greetings,
I'm still perplexed by The Down Stairs Crime Scene in the case we discuss here.

(Thanks MichaelB for the new Riccardo Luciano English translations!!!)

What am I perplexed about, and why?

There is a bunch of missing Crime Scene video footage from downstairs on Nov. 2nd.

Right after Flyin' Squad Officer Lorena Zugarini uses 2 kicks to smash in the kitchen door, IIRC there is missing footage, then the cops then enter and look around the boyz flat, find the marijuana plants, yet we never see any of their bedrooms where blood found, like we see on Stefano's bed the next day.

Here is a description of what I had previously found
while watchin' the publicly available Crime Scene video's:

At about 16:28:14, on Nov. 2nd,
the investigators are outside, heading downstairs.
At 16:28:42, Officer Zugarini starts to break+enter the downstairs flat by kicking in the kitchen door window. The video shows, at 16:40:40 a chair in the main bathroom, (which I recently posted a photo of) it has a bathtube and shower, but no shower curtain is seen. No blood drops are visible in this bathroom that I can see. The video shows the pot plants, and ends at 16:41:26,

But the video does not show the living room with the tv and chair, the blood drops there, nor any of the boys bedrooms, like Stefano's which has blood on his bed and duvet, nor the other bathroom with the blood in it.

The next day, Nov. 3rd.
video is shown which has this:
Crime Scene Blood Marker: #1+#2,
Time Stamp: 18:25:47
Blood drops and straight lines found on Stefano's bed and comforter.


Crime Scene Blood Marker: #3,
Time Stamp: 18:30:01
Found behind Riccardo's locked bedroom door,
which was then broken ito by police or someone else?
1 bloody outline. Found near 1 pair of sandals, another bloody outline on the floor. Or is that a crayon outline, highlighting something?


Crime Scene Blood Marker: #4,
Time Stamp: 18:47:05
Blood see on a freshly washed blue pillow case of Stefano's
found lying on the floor near the TV in the living room.


Crime Scene Blood Marker: #5,
Time Stamp: 18:47:16
many blood drops found on chair facing a small tv in the living room, with small markers D, E, F, G where the seat cushions would have been, if they had not been lifted upwards, stripped of their covering.


Crime Scene Blood Marker: #6,
Time Stamp: 18:48:42
Multiple dark red blood drops found in the small bathroom,
with all the small, med, + large drops of blood there.


Crime Scene Blood Marker: #7,
Time Stamp: 20:45:20
1 blood splatter drop, seen when coming out of 1st bedroom to right of tv,
near the blooded, blue pillow case of Stefano's at Marker #4.

* * *

Here in The U.S.A.,
we have a terrible case of possible police abuse of power,
and there is concern that a publicly released video footage had been doctored.

I shoot + edit photo's for a living.

Another guy, interviewed in this tragic, current case I bring up, states this:
“I edit footage for a living. But anyone can see that this official video has been cut…. Why?”
<snip>
“These could be glitches,” Norton said in an interview late Tuesday night. “But this looks edited to me. I’m not sure, but maybe there was video that they didn’t want to show people, so they cut and pasted other parts. It’s extremely suspicious.”

Link:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sandra-bland-social-video-react-20150722-story.html


This is cause for concern,
for a few days later, the young women, black
who had been pulled over for a minor traffic violation,
and then threatened by a white police officer,
who stated "I'll light you up" as he pulled a Taser on this woman,
when she would not put out her cigarette or leave her car,
was found possibly murdered in a jail cell in Texas 3 days later.

* * *

Look,
I know some cops who surf, and some DA's too. They're bro's + bro-ettes!
Hard job, glad they too dig ridin' waves to get away from the City Life
that we here in L.A. deal with daily while livin' in 1 of the largest cities
in The U.S.A.


But with that said,
that vid from Texas bothers me.
It looks altered, as if someone does not want me to see something.

As does the video from The Down Stairs Crime Scene
in the case we discuss, for on Nov. 2nd
it is odd, there are parts missing,
as noted.

It's almost as if whomever shot or edited the video
did not want me to see what they found downstairs on Novemeber 2nd..
Not until the next day.

But upstairs,
on Nov. 2nd,
they even video-ed inside Miss Kercher's bedroom as she lay murdered,
lying on her pillow, naked + raped, covered under her duvet
where a movie ticket from The Cinegatti, for Oct. 29th, is seen.
And a female cops laughs in there at some point...


In the brutal rape+ murder we discuss here,
there is something very odd about what happened downstairs.
Read all the interviews of the boyz downstairs, in chronological order.
And then wonder why there is missing video footage from Nov. 2nd, 2007.

Why did the camera stop right after finding the pot plants,
but before going into the boyz bedrooms or seeing all the cats blood?

Heck,
where is a photo of the cats blood on the light switch downstairs?
 
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