Greeks vote to reject incumbants, austerity

[caveman1917]

I don't really care if you a paid shill or just a fanboy

Wait, what happened to your investigation? You were so close to exposing me.

but your love for Tsar Putin the First is painfully apparent.

This obsession of yours with Putin is getting a bit weird. Especially when you're always the only one who brings him up. This is a thread about Greece, you know.

No wonder you are rooting for the collapse of the EU.

Don't be shy, go the whole way, say that I'm rooting for the collapse of capitalism. I won't deny it.

It would leave a pathway open for Putin to dominate the all of Europe.

All hail Putin the Dominatrix!

ETA: ah, now I see where that obsession comes from

 

[caveman1917]

the "Neo Coms" who are making a comeback

If they are neo then how can they be making a comeback?

 

[aleCcowaN]

Ok, can you say how much of the debt increase (preferably both absolute and relative to GDP) between the financial crisis of 2008 and today has been the result of the bailout programs?

That was hardly his point in the post you were quoting. He told the Greek economy had a boost because it worked in a normal fashion and they added the stimulus of borrowing money from outside the country. When the economy started to work not so well, they continue to borrow money until it was unsustainable. The shrinkage of the economy is the natural consequence of things going wrong, the foreign tap closed and the drain cork lifted. The fact that Greece's public sector has not being receiving any fresh money for years now is immaterial to that process.

Besides, I wouldn't comment on figures that take debt in current money and compare with GDP expressed in current money. What matters is the real GDP variation, not its monetary expression, that's why there are some discussions here using numbers that don't add up.

And by the way, just in case the usual suspects try to make an exploit of this. Haircuts didn't mean any fresh money either. Haircuts are a bathe of reality for lenders. If haircuts had something to do with borrowers they'd show instant huge surpluses after each instance.

 

[aleCcowaN]

I really hope the bailout falls apart,that the far left in Greece takes over,leaves the Euro,and proceeds to in it's plans to build a Workers Paradise in Greece,the same way that Chavez built a workers paradise in Venezuela. the resulting Cluster---k will discredit the "Neo Coms" who are making a comeback,before they can do wisedpread damage.

Are you calling Néa Dimokratía "Neo Coms"?

 

[caveman1917]

Are you calling Néa Dimokratía "Neo Coms"?

Only if you assume ND is far left?

 

[aleCcowaN]

Only if you assume ND is far left?

I'm talking about who is going to govern in 6-10 months, no matter Grexit or Grexin.

I'm telling you because you seem to think that Grexit plus a Syriza government managing it is a probable outcome when it's in fact the most unlikely pair.

 

[caveman1917]

I'm telling you because you seem to think that Grexit plus a Syriza government managing it is a probable outcome when it's in fact the most unlikely pair.

And where have I expressed anything like that?

 

[caveman1917]

Nice view of the protests in Spain

 

[aleCcowaN]

And where have I expressed anything like that?

Sorry, you replied to a question addressed to dudalb, based on such a remark.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Nice view of the protests in Spain

Very similar to those at home. You can tell a protest in left-oriented by looking how they make room between each other to look like they are more. Here when common people, or the right, or the populist right or the political centre gather, we bump into each other.

 

[caveman1917]

Sorry, you replied to a question addressed to dudalb, based on such a remark.

Yes, an illogical question, given that he had defined his hypothesis of this new government as "far left".

 

[caveman1917]

You can tell a protest in left-oriented by looking how they make room between each other to look like they are more. Here when common people, or the right, or the populist right or the political centre gather, we bump into each other.

It's a vast conspiracy to help the people taking pictures. If you break the code of silence on that you get taken to a neo-KGB room and tortured.

Here's how you can really tell whether it's left- or right-oriented: whether it is taking place in the "wrong country".

 

[caveman1917]

Midnight in Athens, no vote took place in parliament, Tsipras nowhere to be seen.

 

[caveman1917]

According to the Washington Post:

WTFF?

Dogfight between Turkish and Greek jets occurred after Turkish incursion in Greek airspace.

A formation of six Turkish fighter jets violated Greek national air space in the northeastern, central and southeastern Aegean on Wednesday, defense officials said.
The Turkish jets, which were flanked on one side by another aircraft that was not a part of the formation, carried out a total of 20 transgressions, the defense officials said, adding that two of the aircraft were armed and that one dogfight occurred.
In all cases, the Turkish jets were chased off by Greek aircraft.

 

[Rat]

You can't spend more then you take in for long periods of time without bad things happening.
You can't keep rasing taxes on "the rich" forever without killing the goose that lays the Golden Eggs.
Two basic economic facts of life that many on the Left just cannot accept.

The ability of those on the left to ignore the basic lesson here:That a govenment spending more then it takes in over a long period of time is a bad thing..is just incredible.

Overspending by government is at the core of Greece;s problem. That is what so many on the left either ignore or avoid,because they fell massive government spending is the solution to every economic problem.

No,personal finiances are not the same as government finiances,but some basic economics apply to both,among them are if you massively spend more then you take in for long periods of time, bad things will happen.
The lefties reject this becaue they want unlimited government spending as an answer to all problems.
And in the case of many, they hate the Free Market anyway.

I've told you this before, but I can't tell whether this is a strawman, or if you actually believe this. You appear to know absolutely nothing about those on the left, and you should probably therefore refrain from talking about it. Almost nobody on the left holds the views that you routinely and repeatedly attribute to them.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Yes, an illogical question, given that he had defined his hypothesis of this new government as "far left".

To be fair, it was more of a tongue-in-chick, as dudalb strangely seems to believe in economic determinism and dialectic materialism more than Marx did, no matter he thinks the opposite about their outcomes.

He was talking of sort of the inevitability -he often uses "I wish" as a synonym of it- of the aGreekment failing and "the left monsters" driving Greece to an economic holocaust.

It's a vast conspiracy to help the people taking pictures. If you break the code of silence on that you get taken to a neo-KGB room and tortured.

Here's how you can really tell whether it's left- or right-oriented: whether it is taking place in the "wrong country".

Or you may take my remarks, carefully save them in a sand box within your brain -so you're not contaminated by mine or other people's thinking- and take a look to the crowdedness of different kind of manifestations around the globe.

Your call.

You even can say you discovered that, no problem.

 

[quixotecoyote]

The entire post has 215 words, on which you two only addressed the last 48. I think it's pretty clear who gets to say "meh".

Hint: it's not you.

McHrozni

I addressed not one, but both sentences in that post.

If you want me to criticize your signature too, I can do that.

It's silly to include a signature on a post when your name already appears to the side.

Are you now satisfied with the thorough completeness of the rebuttal?

 

[aleCcowaN]

I've told you this before, but I can't tell whether this is a strawman, or if you actually believe this.

I explain that to myself in this way: he has the political left scripted, like the writers of Garrison's Gorillas had the nazi soldiers: they had to be either wrong, dumb, mischievous or repented, and no matter their class, they had to fall bullet-riddled in the end.

 

[caveman1917]

Or you may take my remarks, carefully save them in a sand box within your brain -so you're not contaminated by mine or other people's thinking- and take a look to the crowdedness of different kind of manifestations around the globe.

I could also remember my experience of being inside enough of them to carefully save your remark in a box in my brain called "loony stuff"

 

[CapelDodger]

I have already posted the figures earlier. About 200b bailout of which about 100b to debt service, increasing debt by 100b.

Bailout money is not debt. It is money available to draw on (under conditions), at which point it does become debt.
Debt write-offs decreased debt. If it's gone up it's because a Greek deficit needs funding.

Coupled with the required contraction of GDP in the bailout agreements making the whole operation increase Greek debt from about 100% to about 175% of GDP.

Absolute debt didn't increase from the bailout.