Greeks vote to reject incumbants, austerity

[caveman1917]

Or you could look at OECD statistics

Greeks work, by far, the most hours per week in the EU. But sure, why not trust the corporate media about a corporate takeover of a sovereign country?

 

[caveman1917]

It went up as a proportion of GDP not because the debt went up but because GDP tanked when credit stopped flowing.

Debt went up 75% and GDP dropped 25%, your claim doesn't add up.

 

[aleCcowaN]

It went up as a proportion of GDP not because the debt went up but because GDP tanked when credit stopped flowing.

Debt went up 75% and GDP dropped 25%, your claim doesn't add up.

The truth lies somewhere half-way. For run-of-the-mill 50% precise explanations I've already linked Españistán with English subtitles several times. I'm not doing it again.

 

[caveman1917]

The truth lies somewhere half-way.

It doesn't lie halfway if the contraction of GDP is a direct result of the conditions attached to the loans. The loans still make the debt go up, just partially through a different mechanism than by increasing the absolute sum of debt.

 

[caveman1917]

The Syriza central committee adopts a resolution slamming the agreement and describing it as a coup.

"On July 12 a coup was carried out in Brussels that proved that the aim of the European leadership was the exemplary annihilation of a people who envisaged that another path could be followed beyond the neoliberal model of extreme austerity," the statement continues. "A coup that goes directly against any kind of notion of democracy and popular sovereignty."

Doesn't look like the purges are going very well for Tsipras.

 

[psionl0]

People who think national budgets and personal finances are analogous clearly have a woefully simple minded view of the world.

It's high time you clarified the differences between government finances and personal finances. The differences are far less than you are suggesting although there are a couple.

A country that can print its own currency has one advantage over an individual. It can devalue its debt by creating inflation (assuming its debts are denominated in the national currency). This doesn't apply to Greece of course.

OTOH one advantage an individual has is that they can go bankrupt and start afresh after a few years. National debts tend to never be forgotten.

 

[CapelDodger]

Debt went up 75% and GDP dropped 25%, your claim doesn't add up.

If Greek debt went up it's because Greece borrowed more money. In the initial bailout Greek debt was written down not added to. Look at the absolute figures not proportion of GDP.

 

[CapelDodger]

Greeks work, by far, the most hours per week in the EU.

Does the EU Working Hours Directive not apply?

But sure, why not trust the corporate media about a corporate takeover of a sovereign country?

So who do you trust?

 

[caveman1917]

If Greek debt went up it's because Greece borrowed more money. In the initial bailout Greek debt was written down not added to. Look at the absolute figures not proportion of GDP.

I have already posted the figures earlier. About 200b bailout of which about 100b to debt service, increasing debt by 100b. Coupled with the required contraction of GDP in the bailout agreements making the whole operation increase Greek debt from about 100% to about 175% of GDP.

 

[caveman1917]

Does the EU Working Hours Directive not apply?

EU directives generally apply to all EU countries. Any particular reason why you ask?

So who do you trust?

Facts and reason.

 

[dudalb]

It's high time you clarified the differences between government finances and personal finances. The differences are far less than you are suggesting although there are a couple.

A country that can print its own currency has one advantage over an individual. It can devalue its debt by creating inflation (assuming its debts are denominated in the national currency). This doesn't apply to Greece of course.

OTOH one advantage an individual has is that they can go bankrupt and start afresh after a few years. National debts tend to never be forgotten.

No,personal finiances are not the same as government finiances,but some basic economics apply to both,among them are if you massively spend more then you take in for long periods of time, bad things will happen.
The lefties reject this becaue they want unlimited government spending as an answer to all problems.
And in the case of many, they hate the Free Market anyway.

 

[dudalb]

People who think national budgets and personal finances are analogous clearly have a woefully simple minded view of the world.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

So Govrenments can continue massive deficit spending forever without bad consequnces? Interesting.

 

[caveman1917]

Belgian trains start looking better these days

And yes, dubalb, I can see this all the way from my office building in St Petersburg Leningrad.

 

[aleCcowaN]

It doesn't lie halfway if the contraction of GDP is a direct result of the conditions attached to the loans. The loans still make the debt go up, just partially through a different mechanism than by increasing the absolute sum of debt.

Then, you didn't really address what CapelDodger was saying in his post you replied to. Both your "truths" are indeed partially true with some 6 to 8 years of gap.

 

[aleCcowaN]

No,personal finiances are not the same as government finiances,but some basic economics apply to both,among them are if you massively spend more then you take in for long periods of time, bad things will happen.
The lefties reject this becaue they want unlimited government spending as an answer to all problems.
And in the case of many, they hate the Free Market anyway.

You didn't understand the post you're replying to.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Belgian trains start looking better these days

And yes, dubalb, I can see this all the way from my office building in St Petersburg Leningrad.

No way! I'm seeing it now in Havana ... or Caracas .... I don't know well where I am now.

By the way, great respect for public property and spelling. Some other dude called Schauble is getting busted, like the scene in the film Brazil.

 

[caveman1917]

Then, you didn't really address what CapelDodger was saying in his post you replied to. Both your "truths" are indeed partially true with some 6 to 8 years of gap.

Ok, can you say how much of the debt increase (preferably both absolute and relative to GDP) between the financial crisis of 2008 and today has been the result of the bailout programs?

 

[dudalb]

Belgian trains start looking better these days
[qimg]https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11742766_10206294383332966_56655775690277455_n.jpg?oh=a3a57845c62967e2b4e6029fcaf7272a&oe=56153759[/qimg]

And yes, dubalb, I can see this all the way from my office building in St Petersburg Leningrad.

I don't really care if you a paid shill or just a fanboy,but your love for Tsar Putin the First is painfully apparent.
No wonder you are rooting for the collapse of the EU. It would leave a pathway open for Putin to dominate the all of Europe.

 

[caveman1917]

By the way, great respect for public property and spelling.

I still prefer this over the usual "X wuz here" stuff that's normally sprayed on them.

 

[dudalb]

I really hope the bailout falls apart,that the far left in Greece takes over,leaves the Euro,and proceeds to in it's plans to build a Workers Paradise in Greece,the same way that Chavez built a workers paradise in Venezuela. the resulting Cluster---k will discredit the "Neo Coms" who are making a comeback,before they can do wisedpread damage.