Greeks vote to reject incumbants, austerity

[McHrozni]

Overspending by government is at the core of Greece;s problem. That is what so many on the left either ignore or avoid,because they fell massive government spending is the solution to every economic problem.

Greece is paying the price for it's own stupidity, they substantially overspent during the good times and were utterly unprepared for the bad times. The pain now will be that much more severe.

What is most troubling is that the majority of focus is now on how evil Germany is for forcing Greece to get it's house in order, especially in Greece. The lesson should be, first and foremost - save during the good times to weather the bad. This isn't a novel concept, it's even one of the earlier Bible stories FFS. After that the lesson should be don't elect politicians whose promises are totally unrealistic.

Even if Greece receives a 100% debt relief today, and this magically somehow doesn't encourage Spain and Portugal (and others) to follow suit, the core of the problem would remain, and all would be set for the next round of Greek troubles some time down the line. Greek debt issue is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

Last, but not least, I'm in debt by about five times my yearly wage, two and a half times what Greece is. Where's my painless relief? I can manage the repayments fine, but if Greeks can be given a blank check without doing anything substantial, why not me?

McHrozni

 

[angrysoba]

I was employing Reductio ad absurdam.

Yes, it was, if by that you mean anyone but Greeks would pay it any mind. There's no question what Greek opinion is and hasn't been since at least the election. Greek opinion signifies inside Greece. It does not signify anywhere else.

The referendum was inevitably met with the response "**** you, where's my money?".

What are you talking about? It was for the Greek government to honour the referendum, not for anyone else. But they did not.

 

[GlennB]

Newspapers, conversations, a few books. I've always followed current affairs.

Or you could look at OECD statistics, which show average Greek retirement age being just between those of France and Germany, and very little different from either. But, hey, newspapers must be a better source eh? Daily Mail? Bild?

 

[McHrozni]

What are you talking about? It was for the Greek government to honour the referendum, not for anyone else. But they did not.

Phyrrus was a Greek too, right?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Or you could look at OECD statistics, which show average Greek retirement age being just between those of France and Germany, and very little different from either. But, hey, newspapers must be a better source eh? Daily Mail? Bild?

http://www.oecd.org/els/public-pensions/PAG2013-profile-Greece.pdf

Greek spending on pensions is nearly twice OECD average. If you don't realize that's a problem, and a major part of the Greek problems that must be solved, you probably should refrain from commenting on the matter. And voting in elections.

McHrozni

 

[angrysoba]

Phyrrus was a Greek too, right?

McHrozni

So?

 

[McHrozni]

So?

The referendum was the very definition of a Phyrric victory for Syriza.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Greek-protesters-set-fire-to-Syriza-flag.html

McHrozni

 

[angrysoba]

The referendum was the very definition of a Phyrric victory for Syriza.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Greek-protesters-set-fire-to-Syriza-flag.html

McHrozni

It wasn't a victory of any kind at all.

 

[McHrozni]

It wasn't a victory of any kind at all.

It was a Phyrric victory - they won nearly 2 in 3 of Greek electorate to back them up completely on July 5th, then totally betrayed that decision on July 12th.

McHrozni

 

[bit_pattern]

People who think national budgets and personal finances are analogous clearly have a woefully simple minded view of the world.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[McHrozni]

People who think national budgets and personal finances are analogous clearly have a woefully simple minded view of the world.

There are differences, I wanted to see responses I'd get.

I'm glad the best you can manage is still just a simple attempt at insult

McHrozni

 

[quixotecoyote]

There are differences, I wanted to see responses I'd get.

I'm glad the best you can manage is still just a simple attempt at insult

McHrozni

Deliberately poor argumentation for the sake of game-playing, or actual poor argumentation masked with 'I meant to do that' and smilies.

Either way, meh.

 

[McHrozni]

Deliberately poor argumentation for the sake of game-playing, or actual poor argumentation masked with 'I meant to do that' and smilies.

Either way, meh.

The entire post has 215 words, on which you two only addressed the last 48. I think it's pretty clear who gets to say "meh".

Hint: it's not you.

McHrozni

 

[aleCcowaN]

Greece is paying the price for it's own stupidity,

If you are talking of their stupidity of adopting the Euro, I agree.
If you are talking of their stupidity of large public expenditures, it's just the private sector who is paying.
If your are talking of their stupidity of public debt, well, who are paying are foreigners or, who do you think is financing the haircuts?

But I don't think you meant a realistic analysis. It was just for the sake of using Greece and stupidity in the same phrase, what seems to be a source of pleasure for you. Why waste our time looking for substance?

By the way your completely wrong using it's own. But that is a whole nother topic.

 

[McHrozni]

If you are talking of their stupidity of adopting the Euro, I agree.
If you are talking of their stupidity of large public expenditures, it's just the private sector who is paying.
If your are talking of their stupidity of public debt, well, who are paying are foreigners or, who do you think is financing the haircuts?

If you had red my post beyond the first nine words the whole thing would be much more clear to you.

But I don't think you meant a realistic analysis.

In accordance with the above I would say you lack the necessary attention span to judge.

McHrozni

 

[aleCcowaN]

If you had red my post beyond the first nine words the whole thing would be much more clear to you.

Aaaah! You mean the part after your non sequitur!

 

[aleCcowaN]

And the clowns begin to come out of the tiny car.

Parliamentary debate:

Tsakalotos: Time will tell if the deal's viable

Euclid Tsakalotos, Greece’s new-ish finance minister, has opened the debate in Athens.
He didn’t sugar the pill, telling MPs that many of the measures in the bailout bill will be recessionary.
But the upside is that it preserves Greece’s place in the eurozone, so investment can flow back into the country.

Yes, "investment can flow back", sure, from Greece to their countries of origin. Just don't yell "fire!" in the theatre and those present will believe the burnt smelling smoke is just a quality special effect.

What a quality speech, how sublime. They used the finest mesh to select such intellectual powerhouses.

 

[CapelDodger]

They started with a stable 100% of GDP and after these "money changing hands routines" ended up with 175% of GDP.

It went up as a proportion of GDP not because the debt went up but because GDP tanked when credit stopped flowing.

 

[CapelDodger]

Or you could look at OECD statistics, which show average Greek retirement age being just between those of France and Germany, and very little different from either.

That's the situation as pertains today, after reforms, not the situation which caused the problem. If you look at http://www.oecd.org/els/public-pensions/PAG2013-profile-Greece.pdf you'll see that current arrangements came into force on 1st Jan 2013, long after the panic started. Greeks are retiring older today but that's had little effect on the average age of pensioners.

 

[CapelDodger]

Yes, "investment can flow back", sure, from Greece to their countries of origin.

That's long gone. As to investment flowing in, there's money to be made out of privatisation. Buy abjectly run state enterprises for peanuts, double productivity in a month for very little effort, and flip for a tidy profit.