Amanda Knox and the State Department

[BazBear]

Well, it does smell a little like a conspiracy theory, in that it assumes that things are not as they seem and in that there is nothing but suspicion to support it. I am waiting for the "No Courters" to come forward and argue that there really is no such thing as a supreme court in Italy...

Italy? I thought that was a part of the mythical Atlantis?

In any case, I just hope PIs and PGs don't stain the carpets over here.

 

[Samson]

Well, it does smell a little like a conspiracy theory, in that it assumes that things are not as they seem and in that there is nothing but suspicion to support it. I am waiting for the "No Courters" to come forward and argue that there really is no such thing as a supreme court in Italy...

Italy? I thought that was a part of the mythical Atlantis?

In any case, I just hope PIs and PGs don't stain the carpets over here.

Since I started this thread, more information has come to light, and I now have almost no doubt that the State Department made it crystal clear to people in Italy who could make things happen, that an unprecedented judicial action was required. This information is surprisingly easy to find. It seems Amanda was both Raffaele's curse and his saviour. Sabrina Misseri will have no such luck with her wrongful prosecution, and the thugs will get away with it.

 

[BazBear]

Since I started this thread, more information has come to light, and I now have almost no doubt that the State Department made it crystal clear to people in Italy who could make things happen, that an unprecedented judicial action was required. This information is surprisingly easy to find. It seems Amanda was both Raffaele's curse and his saviour. Sabrina Misseri will have no such luck with her wrongful prosecution, and the thugs will get away with it.

Well, in that case it sounds more like the U.S. engaging in some high level intergovernmental pressure, rather than any sort of conspiracy.

 

[Samson]

Well, in that case it sounds more like the U.S. engaging in some high level intergovernmental pressure, rather than any sort of conspiracy.

My original plan was to start the thread in USA politics, but I asked a mod who suggested Trials and Errors, but the thread was moved, presumably by a different mod or mods. With the additional information that I can't post, but can be found on a nearby forum, I have no doubt it should be in USA politics. I will correspond with the mods. By the way who cares anyway about Knox?

 

[marplots]

Um... Amanda Knox? Is this a case we are supposed to know about without a link?


ETA: Found an article in Time magazine:http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1945430,00.html
"After a yearlong trial, American student Amanda Knox was found guilty for killing her British roommate while studying abroad in Italy in 2007."

So apparently, she's been found guilty in Italy and will be serving a 26-year sentence for murder.

 

[theprestige]

Yesterday, 12:02 PM
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Thread Moved
Hi Samson,

The following thread that you created has been moved

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Thread: Amanda Knox and the State Department
Original Forum: Trials and Errors
New Forum: Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
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This does not appear to be you consulting with the mods, as you claimed. Did you consult with the mods about where to start this thread?

 

[Samson]

This does not appear to be you consulting with the mods, as you claimed. Did you consult with the mods about where to start this thread?

Yes I asked Agatha in fact who suggested T and E's. I have now asked the thread to be moved to USA politics, since the 2009 transcript I had not seen till after I started the thread tells a major story.
That story is this.
Senator Cantwell tried to make Hilary Clinton engage, but she refused because she wanted the Italians to help in Afghanistan, thus consigning Cantwell's citizen to two years unnecessary imprisonment.
Disgraceful.
No doubt that will be scorned, but the transcript is crystal clear. I will post the extracts when I have time.

 

[BazBear]

Yes I asked Agatha in fact who suggested T and E's. I have now asked the thread to be moved to USA politics, since the 2009 transcript I had not seen till after I started the thread tells a major story.
That story is this.
Senator Cantwell tried to make Hilary Clinton engage, but she refused because she wanted the Italians to help in Afghanistan, thus consigning Cantwell's citizen to two years unnecessary imprisonment.
Disgraceful.
No doubt that will be scorned, but the transcript is crystal clear. I will post the extracts when I have time.

Just to be clear, if the mods think this subforum is the right place for this thread, it's fine by me.

I was joking around earlier in this thread due to the fact I find the drama in the AK threads (as well as the related threads in FMF) kind of humorous.

 

[theprestige]

Yes I asked Agatha in fact who suggested T and E's. I have now asked the thread to be moved to USA politics, since the 2009 transcript I had not seen till after I started the thread tells a major story.
That story is this.
Senator Cantwell tried to make Hilary Clinton engage, but she refused because she wanted the Italians to help in Afghanistan, thus consigning Cantwell's citizen to two years unnecessary imprisonment.
Disgraceful.
No doubt that will be scorned, but the transcript is crystal clear. I will post the extracts when I have time.

I'm not sure this even belongs in US Politics.

Are you prepared to argue that intervening in Amanda Knox's imprisonment was the greatest good the State Department could have achieved at the time? Because I would say that obtaining more troops for the conflict in Afghanistan probably affected quite a few more American lives for the better. Just from the perspective of doing the most good for the most Americans, I think it'd be a pretty tough sell. But by all means make your pitch if you have one.

 

[Samson]

Just to be clear, if the mods think this subforum is the right place for this thread, it's fine by me.

I was joking around earlier in this thread due to the fact I find the drama in the AK threads (as well as the related threads in FMF) kind of humorous.

Since it is so central to the thread, and the link would have been in the OP had I been aware of it, here is the full transcript that is not subject to copyright:

QUESTION: May I ask you about the Amanda Knox case in Italy?

MR. KELLY: Mm-hmm.

QUESTION: I know the Secretary was asked yesterday about that and she said she hadn’t had a chance to look into it. I’m wondering (a) whether Senator Cantwell or anyone else has contacted the Secretary to get involved and (b) whether she’s now looked at the matter and has any interest in getting involved or any diplomatic, you know, action she has in mind.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 4. Do not post large quantities of material available from other sites, instead post a small portion and a link. The full article can be found at http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2009/dec/133266.htm

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Isn't there already a thread for this

Yes.

But if it's mod-pre-approved, so be it.

 

[Samson]

I'm not sure this even belongs in US Politics.

Are you prepared to argue that intervening in Amanda Knox's imprisonment was the greatest good the State Department could have achieved at the time? Because I would say that obtaining more troops for the conflict in Afghanistan probably affected quite a few more American lives for the better. Just from the perspective of doing the most good for the most Americans, I think it'd be a pretty tough sell. But by all means make your pitch if you have one.

That is a fair point. And it is true that Knox to a limited extent was the author of her own misfortune. Nor am I clear yet when Heavey and others educated the state department to the point their lawyers were sure of her innocence. However, as can be seen, Clinton was actively disengaged when she was convicted, and Kelly was caught off guard by the remarkable interrogation. I would love to see that sort of thing in New Zealand. Here the media are totally gutless even when the facts are obvious.

 

[Desert Fox]

One item I am curious about is if the CIA was asked to make an internal investigation of the case by the state department. If so, it might be interesting to read any reports they might have generated.

 

[Samson]

One item I am curious about is if the CIA was asked to make an internal investigation of the case by the state department. If so, it might be interesting to read any reports they might have generated.

DF, of course I don't know.

Have you read this link whose content has been abbreviated for reasonable reason? You probably did, but my full post has been notified as too long.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2009/dec/133266.htm

Oh man.

 

[Andy_Ross]

So what is the conspiracy?


Is there any evidence that the Italian Govt subverted their own judicial system at the request of the US Govt?

 

[Desert Fox]

One item I am curious about is if the CIA was asked to make an internal investigation of the case by the state department. If so, it might be interesting to read any reports they might have generated.

I was tired when I wrote that post, I mean the "FBI" not the "CIA"

 

[Metullus]

DF, of course I don't know.

Have you read this link whose content has been abbreviated for reasonable reason? You probably did, but my full post has been notified as too long.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2009/dec/133266.htm

Oh man.

I read it when you posted it. Forgive me for asking, but I do not see anything in that transcript that supports your thesis that the US government intervened with the Italian courts in the Knox trials, could you point out what part of the transcript does so? Congressional interest in such cases is not unusual, neither is media interest, so the questions asked of State is not at all surprising.

 

[Metullus]

That story is this.
Senator Cantwell tried to make Hilary Clinton engage, but she refused because she wanted the Italians to help in Afghanistan, thus consigning Cantwell's citizen to two years unnecessary imprisonment.
Disgraceful.
No doubt that will be scorned, but the transcript is crystal clear. I will post the extracts when I have time.

Is it you contention that it is the responsibility of the US State Department to intervene anytime an American citizen is put on trial in a foreign country? Or just in this case where some well intentioned people asserted the innocence of the accused but not, perhaps, when those same well intentioned bystanders are convinced that the accused is guilty?

Finally, what action by the State Department would have been appropriate and would have resulted in Knox's release?

 

[Spindrift]

I have no idea whether the State Department intervened to avoid hand to hand combat with the Italians when waiting for Knox to be exonerated.

2. However, I hold the view that a smart culture like the American should never allow another culture like the Italian, to make a dog's breakfast of a simple case, and kidnap their citizen.

Another culture? You make it sound like Italy is 13th century Mayan.

And this so-called smart culture allows other cultures all over the world to incarcerate Americans for things that are not even crimes here. Why would Amanda Knox be any different. Oh yeah, she's hawt.

And don't pull a muscle jumping to conclusions, I thought she was innocent.

 

[theprestige]

I read it when you posted it. Forgive me for asking, but I do not see anything in that transcript that supports your thesis that the US government intervened with the Italian courts in the Knox trials, could you point out what part of the transcript does so? Congressional interest in such cases is not unusual, neither is media interest, so the questions asked of State is not at all surprising.

I think Samson's argument is that the State Department did not intervene, even though it should have been aware of the issue and could have intervened if it wanted to.