Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Mr Fied said:
Why would a judge take someones word on evidence if it couldn't be proven?

No wonder both of their judgements were overturned.
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Massei and Nencini did the fact finding and assessed the evidence.They heard numerous expert witnesses from all sides, found in favour of the prosecution side and decreed the pair were, "Guilty".

No new evidence came up at appeal, except that Conti and Vecchiotti perverted the course of justice by refusing to test sample 36i and falsely claiming it was starch and too LCN to test.

Alessi's evidence was so dreadful, even the judges were joking he was known for his "five stories". Really, is Alessi Amanda and Raff's only hope? He blew it spectacularly. The laughing stock of Florence.

Bruno-Maresca's verdict is as bent as a nine bob note.
 
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Vixen said:
Massei and Nencini did the fact finding and assessed the evidence.They heard numerous expert witnesses from all sides, found in favour of the prosecution side and decreed the pair were, "Guilty".

No new evidence came up at appeal, except that Conti and Vecchiotti perverted the course of justice by refusing to test sample 36i and falsely claiming it was starch and LCN.

Alessi's evidence was so dreadful, even the judges were joking he was known for his "five stories". Really, is Alessi Amanda and Raff's only hope? He blew it spectacularly. The laughing stock of Florence.

Bruno-Maresca's verdict is as bent as a nine bob note.
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How many expert witnesses did Nencini hear? Numerous is a bit of an overstatement.
 
Vixen said:
Lalli said that. Raff said he p r i c k e d the back of Mez' hand knowing her DNA would likely be found on his knife, as he did indeed p r i c k Mez hands, chin and neck quite a few times on the night of the murder.
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I'm sure this subject is easier to deal with than an example of no blood but DNA on a knife used to murder, but what's a poor boy to do?

Are you then claiming that it was Raf that wielded the rather large kitchen knife and not Amanda? I thought she was the one Koko reported holding it. So he had the big knife and she had his pen knife. Is that correct?
 
Grinder said:
No you didn't answer my question. Are there other cases where the knife used to murder someone had the DNA of the victim but tested negative for blood. Btw, Steffi saw the striation by turning the knife Goldilocks like until the light was just right. You are aware that the material that was turned into MK's DNA weighed 1/500,000 of a grain of salt. In addition to example(s) of similar finding could you also show that the lab was certified for LCN DNA - Steffi too?

Curatolo was disallowed by Hellmann because he wasn't credible. He had the night wrong - no disco buses and he had told the police he had seen nothing. Being a daily heroin user reduces memory and vision so if that's what you referring to as ad hominem then not so much or really not at all. Oh and having been the witness of choice looks suspicious don't ya think?

Are you aware that Massei changed the times he saw the kids to 9:27 to 11:30 based on disco buses that weren't running? See he said just before midnight with mathematical certainty but they needed an earlier time so Massei changed his testimony.

You will find the following interesting coming from the mouth of one of your and Nencini's star witnesses.

A question, do you know the tramp in Piazza Griamana?… There’s a tramp who hangs about Piazza Grimana near the kiosk
Guede: I have to say with all honesty I’ve seen more than one in Piazza Grimana
Pros. Mignini: One that has a hat a bit… long beard… Guede: I’ve often noticed the kiosk, the bench, I’ve often seen a tramp yes… Pros. Mignini: Right, that evening did you see him? Guede: NoPros. Mignini: Another thing, that evening were there…, did you see the buses for the discotheques?
Guede: Well in the previous evenings I saw them
Pros. Mignini: Right which bus… what color?
Guede: But we’re not speaking of that evening?
Pros. Mignini: No
Guede: I saw white buses…
Pros. Mignini: So the evening, when did you see them, the evening of 31?
Guede: No but also previous evenings
Pros. Mignini: Also previous evenings
Guede: Also on previous evenings I saw various buses that, if I’m not wrong, were going to the various discotheques in Perugia
Pros. Mignini: Understood
Napoleoni: And did you see any buses on the evening of 31?
Guede: Of the 31st?
Pros. Mignini: Of the 31st
Guede: I wouldn’t be able to say, it could be yes and it could be no…
Pros. Mignini: Ok, let’s go on then…
Napoleoni: And the evening of the 1st … Guede: On the evening of the 1st I didn’t see any buses and so in fact Meredith and I heard that there were some people up above that were talking and I don’t know…
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So you keep saying. However, you have been highly selective with the testimony.


Judges look at the trial evidence as a whole. Massei and Nencini accepted Curatolo's testimony.
 
Grinder said:
I'm sure this subject is easier to deal with than an example of no blood but DNA on a knife used to murder, but what's a poor boy to do?

Are you then claiming that it was Raf that wielded the rather large kitchen knife and not Amanda? I thought she was the one Koko reported holding it. So he had the big knife and she had his pen knife. Is that correct?
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Raff was certainly aware he needed to explain away Mez' DNA on his knife/knives.
 
Vixen said:
So you keep saying. However, you have been highly selective with the testimony.
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I keep saying? How have I been selective?

Judges look at the trial evidence as a whole. Massei and Nencini accepted Curatolo's testimony.
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It is very troubling that an admitted heroin addict that stated he was on it that night who knew with mathematical certainty that the disco buses were there with people in masks is believed by any court. No it is troubling that they would even allow him to testify. He didn't pick the kids out or an array. I doubt he could see 50 meters at night even off the smack.

Hey how'd you like the fact that the prosecution KNEW no buses were there in March of 2008 from Rudi's testimony?
 
Vixen said:
A court of law accepted there was. So that is the legal situation. Accept it.
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Gee I could say they've been found not guilty by the highest court of law in Italy. It's a legal situation. Accept it.

But that wouldn't really be addressing any issue.
 
Vixen said:
A court of law accepted there was. So that is the legal situation. Accept it.
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Are you joking? That's not the legal situation at all. Also, is this supposed to be an argument? That a court of law ruled it to be true? Courts of law are not infallible like the pope. Otherwise what would be the purpose of appeal courts?
 
Grinder said:
I keep saying? How have I been selective?



It is very troubling that an admitted heroin addict that stated he was on it that night who knew with mathematical certainty that the disco buses were there with people in masks is believed by any court. No it is troubling that they would even allow him to testify. He didn't pick the kids out or an array. I doubt he could see 50 meters at night even off the smack.

Hey how'd you like the fact that the prosecution KNEW no buses were there in March of 2008 from Rudi's testimony?
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Mignini did apologise that not all witnesses would qualify for the Nobel prize.

You omitted to mention Curatolo correctly revealed he saw the forensic team entering the cottage next morning in white suits when he looked over.

Buses were not completely cancelled. So Cutatolo confudged Halloween partying buses. You say its OK for Raff to claim he and Amanda were at a party that night.
 
MDDVS said:
You said "numerous". Why do you insist in the use of hyperbole? You don't have to answer.
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You think 23 is hyperbole. What number of cuts and nicks would you call "numerous".

ETA Soz, there were numerous witness at Massei and Nencini's merits hearing.

Notable absence from the stand: Raff.
 
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Vixen said:
Mignini did apologise that not all witnesses would qualify for the Nobel prize.

You omitted to mention Curatolo correctly revealed he saw the forensic team entering the cottage next morning in white suits when he looked over.

Buses were not completely cancelled. So Cutatolo confudged Halloween partying buses. You say its OK for Raff to claim he and Amanda were at a party that night.
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So, it's either Nobel prize winners or homeless junkie heroin dealers. LOL

Also, what about all the other problems with his testimony? Note that Nencini never heard him in person.
 
Vixen said:
You think 23 is hyperbole. What number of cuts and nicks would you call "numerous".

ETA Soz, there were numerous witness at Massei and Nencini's merits hearing.

Notable absence from the stand: Raff.
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Why is it notable?
 
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