South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[wareyin]

My basis for thinking so is personal experience. I've lived in several places, both Southern and non-Southern, and by far the most racist place was Cherry Hill NJ.

Small town, IN, small town OH, and mid sized city PA were all just about as racist as Atlanta, GA for me.

 

[bit_pattern]

My basis for thinking so is personal experience. I've lived in several places, both Southern and non-Southern, and by far the most racist place was Cherry Hill NJ.

I was acquainted on an internet forum with a young black woman from Louisiana who was adamant that she had never experienced racism to the degree she did in Portland

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[twinstead]

Another anecdote: I've lived in just about every region in the US, and my current location--even though I think it's a great town--is the most racist place I've ever lived.

Cleveland, OH.

 

[Ladewig]

If, Ladewig, you have some basis for thinking otherwise, I'd be quite happy to entertain it.

I was going to vote for the Northeast, but then I remembered that was more ethnic bigotry than racial bigotry.

Hard for me to say.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I've lived in every region in the USA and most of the racism I've experienced and seen was in the southern states, specifically Louisiana and Texas. On another note, in most of the places I've lived, the racism is predominately in rural areas.

 

[Peter i]

Going down!
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/wat...na-removes-confederate-flag-from-state-house/

The Confederate battle flag will be removed from the State House grounds in South Carolina and sent to a museum on Friday morning at 10 a.m. Watch live video, courtesy of Fox Carolina, below:

 

[NoahFence]

Nice ceremony.

 

[NoahFence]

I predict hijinks in South Carolina tomorrow.

I like being wrong sometimes. Good show folks!

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

I have family in the south and up north. Have seen racism everywhere. It does seem to me that public places are more integrated in northern urban areas than in the south. My wife and I went recently in the Asheville area and she noticed that when we ate out, not only were all the restaurant staff white, so were all the customers. I've seen that outside the south as well, but it did strike us that we saw that same pattern in every restaurant on this trip...

 

[crescent]

Yup, I was wrong.
IMHO the Dem Amendments are a bit too sweeping. So any book that has the Confederate flag on it's cover cannot be sold at a National park store? Silly.

And Both parties are capable of pandering.

It also keeps merchandise displaying the Confederate Flag from being sold at the stores at NPS sites, and,knowing the way bureaucrats operate (I am one...Departement of Interior no less) the ban will be total unless there is something in the bill that permits some descrition on the part of the Park Manager. IMHO it';s probably good these things will be thrashed out in commitee.
I don't have much faith ,frankly, in the intelligence of congress critters of either party.

So I used to work for the NPS (13 years) and I belong to a few NPS employee FB posts. The agency seems to be interpreting things to mean that they cannot sell things that are just a confederate flag without context - so no flags, lapel pins, belt buckles and the like. Things that present the flag in context - such as a battlefield scene on a book cover, are still acceptable.

The NPS is and always has placed management of cultural resources at or near the top of its priorities. They have a lot of historians, anthropologists, and archaeologists among their ranks. There would be significant pushback to prevent the prohibition on the sale of any merchandise that has a confederate flag on it. The NPS employees are an outspoken group of people, if there were objections, it would be known.

 

[Walter Ego]

I predict hijinks in South Carolina tomorrow.

And I predict a lot of horrible,polyester ,badly done,inauthantic Confederate Uniforms will be on hand.....

The flag came down as scheduled this morning, no hijinks, no protests.

 

[Peter i]

The flag came down as scheduled this morning, no hijinks, no protests.

But quite a lot of cheering!

 

[dudalb]

So I used to work for the NPS (13 years) and I belong to a few NPS employee FB posts. The agency seems to be interpreting things to mean that they cannot sell things that are just a confederate flag without context - so no flags, lapel pins, belt buckles and the like. Things that present the flag in context - such as a battlefield scene on a book cover, are still acceptable.

The NPS is and always has placed management of cultural resources at or near the top of its priorities. They have a lot of historians, anthropologists, and archaeologists among their ranks. There would be significant pushback to prevent the prohibition on the sale of any merchandise that has a confederate flag on it. The NPS employees are an outspoken group of people, if there were objections, it would be known.

Hey, I work for the BLM so I know how it goes.
My concern was that the Congressional measure was too sweeping,and ,given the amount of badly writen legislation we see coming out from Congress...and both parties are guilty of this...I think my concern was justified.
But reading the actual legisltation, I have no problems with that portion of it.
I do think that allowing a Confederate flag for one day on the graves of Confederate soldiers in NPS cemeteries is also somethng I would not object to..and I was strongly in favor of taking down the flag from the Carolina state house.
We are having fun ,BTW, here in the California State BLM office with that stolen BLM gun that was used in that San Francisco shooting...

 

[dudalb]

The flag came down as scheduled this morning, no hijinks, no protests.

And I am really surprised,given what publicity whores the Neo Confederates are.
I never thought there would be violence, but did think we would see a lot of noisy pro Rebel Rag demonstrations.

 

[crescent]

Hey, I work for the BLM so I know how it goes.

So did I, until two weeks ago. I just started a new job with the Florist Circus.

We are having fun ,BTW, here in the California State BLM office with that stolen BLM gun that was used in that San Francisco shooting...

I had not heard of that. I was over in Bundyland. I am happy to say that my new office has no system in place to warn staff if the building comes under attack. Apparently, the threat level does not justify it )), unlike my old BLM field office, which had panic buttons and strobes to warn if attacked eek. We discovered that firecrackers lit off in the lobby were inaudible in the back office, so gunfire could conceivably also be inaudible (depending on the type of gun, of course) (fun thing for you LE to test, if they have not already done so).

 

[Upchurch]

Absolutely well written:

The South’s Heritage Is So Much More Than a Flag

It was around that time that I began paying attention to the flag flying at courthouses and state capitals. I started hearing things like “heritage, not hate” from people who were perhaps well-meaning, but were nevertheless ignoring the fact that their beloved Southern Cross flew at Klan rallies — that it was a symbol for a war fought on the principle of one man owning another. Let’s pause to think about that one for a moment: one man owning another. When our kindly Grandpa says “states’ rights,” that’s the “right” he’s talking about. Unfair tariffs? Many of the soldiers in the Civil War probably couldn’t spell “tariff.” But they certainly knew that the South’s economy and very way of life was built upon the backs of men, women and children of color.

It’s high time that a symbol so divisive be removed. The flags coming down symbolize the extent to which those who cry “heritage, not hate” have already lost their argument. Why would we want to fly a symbol that has been used by the K.K.K. and terrorists like Dylann Roof? Why would a people steeped in the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible want to rally around a flag that so many associate with hatred and violence? Why fly a flag that stands for the very things we as Southerners have worked so hard to move beyond?

If we want to truly honor our Southern forefathers, we should do it by moving on from the symbols and prejudices of their time and building on the diversity, the art and the literary traditions we’ve inherited from them. It’s time to study and learn about who we are and where we came from while finding a way forward without the baggage of our ancestors’ fears and superstitions. It’s time to quit rallying around a flag that divides. And it is time for the South to — dare I say it? — rise up and show our nation what a beautiful place our region is, and what more it could become.

 

[DGM]

I thought that was a good question so I tried to find out where NASCAR races are held. Wow, to my amazement there are numerous "tiers" (my word) and divisions. So it was not as easy to answer the question as I thought.

That said, I picked, at random, a NASCAR schedule for 2015. Of 8 races, 6 were in the South (SC, NC, FL, ...) and one was in Iowa.

Since the heart of racist sentiment in the USA is in the South, I think it is a reasonable inference that NASCAR fans might be more racist than the average sports fan. For example, has any other sport had to ban Confederate flags at its events?

College football is also huge down south.

The significance of the Confederate battle flag in NASCAR is not based in racism. It stems from the early "rum runner" days during prohibition that gave birth to the sport. It's a symbol of rebellion and freedom for the vast majority of the fans. I can see NASCAR wanting to distance itself from any suggestion of racism but, the "Rebel" flag will likely always be present at the tracks. Even up here in the north.

 

[Upchurch]

The significance of the Confederate battle flag in NASCAR is not based in racism. It stems from the early "rum runner" days during prohibition that gave birth to the sport.

It = NASCAR or It = flag?

I'm assuming the former, but it is highly unlikely that the Confederate flag had any significance to Prohibition, since the flag was not widely used between the end of the Civil War and the late 1950s or early 1960s.

It's a symbol of rebellion and freedom for the vast majority of the fans.

That is highly ironic, since the Confederacy stood for quite the opposite.

FWIW, History of African-Americans in NASCAR

 

[dudalb]

I've lived in every region in the USA and most of the racism I've experienced and seen was in the southern states, specifically Louisiana and Texas. On another note, in most of the places I've lived, the racism is predominately in rural areas.

Just can't keep from using that broad brush,can you?

 

[DGM]

It = NASCAR or It = flag?

I'm assuming the former, but it is highly unlikely that the Confederate flag had any significance to Prohibition, since the flag was not widely used between the end of the Civil War and the late 1950s or early 1960s.

Missed the point. The flag was more of a "stick it to the man" symbol adopted by the "rum runners". It's a Rebel flag.

That is highly ironic, since the Confederacy stood for quite the opposite.

It is, isn't it.

FWIW, History of African-Americans in NASCAR

I wonder if hockey or basketball would be considered racist?