South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Checkmite]

The bill has been signed. The flag is to be lowered tomorrow at 10AM ET.

 

[NoahFence]

I predict hijinks in South Carolina tomorrow.

 

[dudalb]

I predict hijinks in South Carolina tomorrow.

And I predict a lot of horrible,polyester ,badly done,inauthantic Confederate Uniforms will be on hand.....

 

[dudalb]

And now we have another Confederate Flag Fuss:GOP members of congress proposing a bill to specifically allow the Confederate Flag to be flown in US Miliatry Cemetaries where Confedrate soldiers are buried (there are several near on Civil War Battlefields). Given that nobody has suggested those flags be taken down(they fall into the same category as Confederate monuments on Battlefields...serving a historical purpose), I think this pandering of the worst sort.

 

[applecorped]

And now we have another Confederate Flag Fuss:GOP members of congress proposing a bill to specifically allow the Confederate Flag to be flown in US Miliatry Cemetaries where Confedrate soldiers are buried (there are several near on Civil War Battlefields). Given that nobody has suggested those flags be taken down(they fall into the same category as Confederate monuments on Battlefields...serving a historical purpose), I think this pandering of the worst sort.

“There’s not any room on federal property for the display of the Confederate battle flag,” said Representative John Lewis, Democrat of Georgia

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/u...wn-on-confederate-flags-at-us-cemeteries.html

 

[Meadmaker]

And now we have another Confederate Flag Fuss:GOP members of congress proposing a bill to specifically allow the Confederate Flag to be flown in US Miliatry Cemetaries where Confedrate soldiers are buried (there are several near on Civil War Battlefields). Given that nobody has suggested those flags be taken down(they fall into the same category as Confederate monuments on Battlefields...serving a historical purpose), I think this pandering of the worst sort.

Except that you are wrong. Not only has someone suggested they be taken down, they passed an amendment to an appropriations bill that mandated it.

The GOP resolution would undo the already passed amendment.

The flags in question are flags placed on graves of Confederate soldiers on Confederate Memorial Day.



I agree that it is pandering of the worst sort, but you need to figure out who is doing the pandering.

Speaking of pandering, though, there is also a Resolution of the House introduced by Nancy Pelosi today. It seems that the Speaker of the House has a certain degree of control over the decorations in their wing of the capitol building. Nancy Pelosi (D- California) introduced a resolution that would require the Speaker to remove the state flag of Mississippi.

 

[dudalb]

Yup, I was wrong.
IMHO the Dem Amendments are a bit too sweeping. So any book that has the Confederate flag on it's cover cannot be sold at a National park store? Silly.

And Both parties are capable of pandering.

 

[paulhutch]

“There’s not any room on federal property for the display of the Confederate battle flag,” said Representative John Lewis, Democrat of Georgia

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/u...wn-on-confederate-flags-at-us-cemeteries.html

Thanks for posting the link, I was wondering how it played out today in the House.

Republican leaders realized that they did not have the votes to pass the amendment reinstating flag displays, nor did they have the votes to pass the spending bill without the amendment. So they were left to pull the underlying bill from consideration.

Mr. Boehner then called for an informal working group to review all Confederate symbols at the Capitol and beyond.

“We all witnessed the people of Charleston and the people of South Carolina come together in a respectful way to deal with, frankly, a very horrific crime and a difficult issue with the Confederate flag,” Mr. Boehner said. “I actually think it’s time for some adults here in the Congress to actually sit down and have a conversation about how to address this issue.”

The spending bill that had become the Confederate flag’s latest flash point was sidelined indefinitely, and Mr. Boehner moved to assemble his working group on Confederate imagery, but it was unclear on Thursday what the timetable would be to convene it. He told reporters he opposes the display of the flag on federal ground.

 

[Checkmite]

Yup, I was wrong.
IMHO the Dem Amendments are a bit too sweeping. So any book that has the Confederate flag on it's cover cannot be sold at a National park store? Silly.

No, of course not. The amendment, as far as I am aware, prohibited Confederate flags from being flown, not pictures of Confederate flags from being printed on books.

 

[dudalb]

No, of course not. The amendment, as far as I am aware, prohibited Confederate flags from being flown, not pictures of Confederate flags from being printed on books.

It also keeps merchandise displaying the Confederate Flag from being sold at the stores at NPS sites, and,knowing the way bureaucrats operate (I am one...Departement of Interior no less) the ban will be total unless there is something in the bill that permits some descrition on the part of the Park Manager. IMHO it';s probably good these things will be thrashed out in commitee.
I don't have much faith ,frankly, in the intelligence of congress critters of either party.

 

[Cleon]

I don't have much faith ,frankly, in the intelligence of congress critters of either party.

I think most of them are highly intelligent, they just use their intelligence for political machination, fundraising, and electioneering rather than doing what's best for the country--regardless of what they think that actually is.

 

[Meadmaker]

It also keeps merchandise displaying the Confederate Flag from being sold at the stores at NPS sites, and,knowing the way bureaucrats operate (I am one...Departement of Interior no less) the ban will be total unless there is something in the bill that permits some descrition on the part of the Park Manager. IMHO it';s probably good these things will be thrashed out in commitee.
I don't have much faith ,frankly, in the intelligence of congress critters of either party.

I must admit, I can't tell exactly who is pandering, because the Huffman amendment doesn't seem to prohibit the grave decorating I was talking about, and which I read about. It seems to only prohibit sales of "non-educational" materials with Confederate flag imagery......which is still pandering, but not nearly as much as the other article indicated.

Until I can figure out what really happened, I reserve the balance of my time.

 

[paulhutch]

I must admit, I can't tell exactly who is pandering, because the Huffman amendment doesn't seem to prohibit the grave decorating I was talking about, and which I read about. It seems to only prohibit sales of "non-educational" materials with Confederate flag imagery......which is still pandering, but not nearly as much as the other article indicated.

Until I can figure out what really happened, I reserve the balance of my time.

Rep. Huffman proposed two amendments:
#585 is about gift shop sales. http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.114hamdt586
#592 is the no flags at graves amendment. http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.114hamdt592

 

[Checkmite]

The amendment specifically prohibits items "with a Confederate flag as a stand-alone feature.". That means you can't buy....Confederate flags, at National Park bookstores. A reasonable interpretation would extend this to keychains, belt buckles, drink cups, stuffed animals, and so forth that are solely Confederate-flag-themed.

It very obviously doesn't include merchandise that, say, has both a Union and a Confederate flag on it; or a book whose cover features a painting of a battle where some of the soldiers are carrying Confederate flags.

 

[Meadmaker]

Rep. Huffman proposed two amendments:
#585 is about gift shop sales. http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.114hamdt586
#592 is the no flags at graves amendment. http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.uscongress/legislation.114hamdt592

Thanks. When I went looking in the House records, I only found the gift shop one. I eventually figured out there were two separate amendments.


It's a pity Jon Stewart is not on this week, because I don't think any other newscaster could do this story justice.

 

[SezMe]

Why would you say this?

I thought that was a good question so I tried to find out where NASCAR races are held. Wow, to my amazement there are numerous "tiers" (my word) and divisions. So it was not as easy to answer the question as I thought.

That said, I picked, at random, a NASCAR schedule for 2015. Of 8 races, 6 were in the South (SC, NC, FL, ...) and one was in Iowa.

Since the heart of racist sentiment in the USA is in the South, I think it is a reasonable inference that NASCAR fans might be more racist than the average sports fan. For example, has any other sport had to ban Confederate flags at its events?

 

[Ladewig]

Since the heart of racist sentiment in the USA is in the South,

I am not sure I can agree with this claim in 2015.

 

[SezMe]

I'd like to think it is an opinion and does not rise to the level of a claim. It would be hard to prove or disprove. However, in support of my opinion, I'd cite:

• The Confederate flag is predominately seen in the South. Note that I am not saying it is absent elsewhere, only that it is much more common in the South
• Only southern states either flew the Confederate flag or have it as part of their flag
• League of the South, Council of Conservative Citizens, etc. are located in the South. See SPLC's Hate Map here.
• Before the Voting Rights Act was gutted by the Supremes, most of the Title IV (is that the right one?) restrictions were in the South and were justified on the basis of suppressing the minority vote

Note that I am not arguing that racism isn't everywhere. It is. But as a legacy of slavery and the Civil War even all these many years later, I hold the opinion that the heart of white racism against blacks is in the South.

If, Ladewig, you have some basis for thinking otherwise, I'd be quite happy to entertain it.

 

[Meadmaker]

The amendment specifically prohibits items "with a Confederate flag as a stand-alone feature.".

Here is the exact text of the amendment:

Sec. __. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to enter into a new contract or agreement or to administer a portion of an existing contract or agreement with a concessioner, a cooperating association, or any other entity that provides for the sale in any facility within a unit of the National Park System of a non-educational item that depicts a Confederate flag on it.

So books are ok, but a coffee cup that had both a Union and a Confederate flag would not be.


There were actually a total of three amendments, two by Huffman and one by Jeffries. The other two amendments were:

Sec. __. None of the funds made available to the National Park Service by this Act may be used for the purchase or display of a confederate flag with the exception of specific circumstances where the flags provide historical context as described in the National Park Service memorandum entitled ``Immediate Action Required, No Reply Needed: Confederate Flags'' and dated June 24, 2015.

Sec. __. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to permit, authorize, or allow any grave in any Federal cemetery to be decorated with a Confederate flag.

The Republican amendment offered yesterday was to undo the one about graves. Media coverage on this has been terrible. Almost all of the headlines gave the impression that the House was sitting around minding its own business when the GOP suddenly threw in something that would allow display of Confederate flags. Sometimes, deep in the text of the article, there was a mention that this was actually a response to something else.

As best I can tell, here's what happened. There were a bunch of routine votes that no one really cared about, including the anti-key-chain amendment, and no one was paying attention. Yawn. Any problems? Voice vote? ok. They slipped in the grave amendment when no one was paying attention. This caused a problem. Some people were pretty upset about the grave one, so much so that they weren't going to vote for the spending bill if it was in it. Spending bills being what they are, they are partisan measures put together by the majority, so they need all the majority to vote for it, and with the amendment, they didn't have it. However, taking out the amendment required a vote, and none of the Democrats and not many Republicans wanted to go on record supporting the Confederate flag, so there weren't enough votes to take out the amendment. As a consequence, that left them with no way to pass the funding for the Interior department.

Presumably, it will go hide in committee until the dust settles and will come back a little cleaner. However, it might not. Some Democrats think this is a vote getter, so they like it front and center, and a little thing like funding the Department of the Interior won't let them get in the way of scoring some media points.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Note that I am not arguing that racism isn't everywhere. It is. But as a legacy of slavery and the Civil War even all these many years later, I hold the opinion that the heart of white racism against blacks is in the South.

If, Ladewig, you have some basis for thinking otherwise, I'd be quite happy to entertain it.

My basis for thinking so is personal experience. I've lived in several places, both Southern and non-Southern, and by far the most racist place was Cherry Hill NJ.