The problem is this is untrue. I accept the fingerprint experts (not forensic anthropolgists or podiatrists as would be the recognised experts on footprints), claimed this. Even excluding their doubtful methodology their own results excluded Sollecito. The length of the ball of the foot is significantly different from Sollecito's. This means it can NOT be Sollecito's. If you try and adjust the length of the ball of the foot everything else falls out of kilter. The fingerprint experts tied to match using fingerprint criteria, saying they had six points of match, but ignoring the one clearly different feature. This is a bit like saying we know a six foot redheaded woman did the crime, finding a five foot redhead then declaring the Ginger must be guilty because red hair is so rare. Completely ignoring the fact that the height (which unlike hair colour is invariable) excludes them.
Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito
- Thread starter acbytesla
- Start date
- Status
The problem is this is untrue. I accept the fingerprint experts (not forensic anthropolgists or podiatrists as would be the recognised experts on footprints), claimed this. Even excluding their doubtful methodology their own results excluded Sollecito. The length of the ball of the foot is significantly different from Sollecito's. This means it can NOT be Sollecito's. If you try and adjust the length of the ball of the foot everything else falls out of kilter. The fingerprint experts tied to match using fingerprint criteria, saying they had six points of match, but ignoring the one clearly different feature. This is a bit like saying we know a six foot redheaded woman did the crime, finding a five foot redhead then declaring the Ginger must be guilty because red hair is so rare. Completely ignoring the fact that the height (which unlike hair colour is invariable) excludes them.
Problem is, it is widely acknowledged that those possessing an exceptionally high IQ are often bereft of commonsense. Case in point, refer to posts from member quoted.
I have to ask Vixen, just what state do you consider your recall memory would be 3 or 4 days after a new friend was found murdered. Or if in Raffaele's position, denied a calendar to sort out what day was what. Raff gave an exact rendition of what Amanda wrote had occurred on Halloween night. Raffaele had his nights confused ( to Mansey AND Police) and sadly, his statement was entered into evidence early on in this sick and sad saga and had to be maintained. This fact has been blatantly obvious to those with eyes wide open... for years.
Its catch up time.
Last edited:
Nick Leesk
Nick van der Leek is a South African who had never heard of this case till after the ISC declared Knox and Sollecito innocent. Clearly no one should be fooled by this ridiculous proposition, and he was not. Engaging in research that was fueled by a seemingly authentic website created by Edward McCall, he persuaded some English collaborators to get involved in a revisionist project. It is that simple and that bloody stupid.
Nick van der Leek is a South African who had never heard of this case till after the ISC declared Knox and Sollecito innocent. Clearly no one should be fooled by this ridiculous proposition, and he was not. Engaging in research that was fueled by a seemingly authentic website created by Edward McCall, he persuaded some English collaborators to get involved in a revisionist project. It is that simple and that bloody stupid.
Last edited:
Quoting THE DAILY MIRROR. does not do much to increase your credibility.
MichaelB
Muse
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Messages
- 555
We've covered that here many times before. Kate Mansey was a hack who made stuff up. Both Amanda and Raffaele mention what happened in their phone calls.
Here's what Amanda said:
p14 http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...Amanda-Knox-Phone-Intercepts-November-3-6.pdf
Kauffer
Master Poster
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2014
- Messages
- 2,382
I thought that's what you thought. So that confirms that for you Raffaele's coerced questura statement has no evidentiary value on the merits of its content because you don't believe it is true. It can hardly make Amanda appear any more guilty to you since you already believe she left Raffaele's apartment.
So why do you bother to mention it at all in connection with the case for guilt since, according to your own opinion, it has no value?
Last edited:
grinder,
Are you playing devils advocate again?
“I don't know why they would have feared Edda”
I think that this has been covered in great detail on this thread, maybe more than once.
The thugs knew that they had to real quick arrange their little inquisition style session BEFORE Eddy arrived.
The thugs knew(from the wire taps) that Eddy had already advised Amanda to go to Germany for her safety and feared that if Amanda left the country the thugs would not be able to beat any statements out of the kids because the thugs would have to abide by the rules of the Italian Constitution and ECHR.
“I guess Raf's dad and sister weren't adults.”
Rafs family did NOT ACT like adults who are familiar with Italian authorities.
I suspect that Raf had convinced them that there was no danger, not realizing that the greatest danger was from the thugs that called themselves Italian Police and Prosecutors.
And the thugs themselves realized that Rafs family would not interfere with the torture sessions because the fact that Rafs family did not lawyer up( like everyone else who was familiar with Italian Police tactics) showed that Rafs family was cluelessly naive about what was happening.
Yes: Beat Up.
Your tone reminds of the guilter nitpicking practice of bickering over whether the thugs punched Amanda in the face or slapped her in the back of the head or whether they terrified and tricked her into false memories or the screaming circle of tormentors suggested exactly what she should say to end the agony of the moment.
Now the guilters do not consider what these thugs did to AK “a beating” because they want to excuse the tactics of the Italian Police, which EVERYONE admits were illegal, even under Italian Law.
Guilters prefer the term “interrogation”, a conveniently ambiguous term that covers everything from chatting over tea and donuts to poking needles into the eyeballs of the suspect.
The fact of the matter is that when the Gestapo completed their tag team badgering session Amanda Knox had been reduced to a screaming, whimpering, terrified animal that would have said or done anything to escape her tormentors.
I am not sure exactly what the appropriate term is to describe a procedure that produces such a result, but it fits in my understanding of "a beating".
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2011
- Messages
- 15,713
This is an odd way of putting it, "The kids had risen to the top of the suspect list."
I keep asking: if the kids were "suspicious", what did their suspicious actions indicate? Murder?
The kids had NOT "risen to the top of the suspect list." The suspect list kept getting whittled away, because the real perp had fled to Germany and the DNA forensics was not in yet. The suspect list at that point was flailing in the wind. This coming DNA-forensics was probably the last thing that came to the PLE that was not suspect-centric in gathering or interpretation.
And you also forgot the person who at one time was at the TOP of the suspects' list. Patrick Lumumba, someone who (like AK and RS) had nothing to do with the crime. He was arrested because Mignini said Amanda accused him, and Mignini considered Amanda a liar and an actress.
Such is the nature of their suspect list, that someone regarded as a liar can trigger Lumumba's arrest and place him, ever so briefly, as suspect numero uno.
Top of the suspects' list? LOL.
Last edited:
Grinder
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 10,033
Why would the PLE have been more worried about an American mother? They could hold Amanda if they wanted. People say Edda would have called the Embassy but what was she going to tell them? Raf's family most likely would have had an easier time getting him out of the country than Edda would have getting Amanda out.
I'm not making an indirect point. Raf's dad was wealthy and his sister a cop so I'd "fear" them more than Edda in being able to stifle the investigation with lawyers etc.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,508
Honestly Grinder? They were worried about Edda because she would have put a damper on their plans to break Amanda. Wold they have arrested either Amanda or Raffaele if they didn't manage to manipulate her? The Embassy would have made sure that Amanda would have had a lawyer. They wouldn't have been able trample her rights.
You've watched a few cop shows is my guess. The last thing that they wanted was to have Amanda lawyer up. A lawyer certainly wouldn't have allowed the interpreter to get involved. The lawyer wouldn't have allowed the police to convince her that she was so traumatized that she had forgotten .
Tesla,
I think that we have already discussed this on this thread
In fact, I learned about the whole "big bad wolf beats the momma bear to the helpless cub and devours cub" story on this thread.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,508
I don't know Edda but neither did the Italian authorities. Maybe she wouldn't have been able to stop this nonsense. But it is more than reasonable for the Perugians to be concerned.
How this idea that Edda's pending arrival did not present a problem to the authorities involved even being argued is beyond me. Of course she presented a threat to the investigation! It is more than obvious Amanda was at the center of that investigation. Knowing her mother was on her way and coming to the aid of her daughter would have been of great concern to them. She would have most certainly impeded their plans.
How could this be lost on someone?
How could this be lost on someone?
Last edited:
Grinder
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 10,033
Unlike several of you I never believed they were guilty and certainly not guilty BARD. I followed the case from the very beginning as local news covered it immediately. When the police said they questioned her until she told them what was correct, I knew something was wrong coupled with the weird concept of a sex game gone wrong. Then when Patrick was released it was even more clear. It was possible in my mind that one or other might have been involved but as the evidence was revealed those possibilities diminished.
I wonder if people that thought they were guilty for years are angry with themselves for being fooled. Having that anger they see the situation to the extreme. They want to believe that the PLE framed the kids as easy targets knowing full well that they were innocent. Head slaps by the victims account turn into beatings. Rudi becomes an informer on a massive crime wave.
The idea that Raf's family was completely naive strikes me as very humorous especially considering his sister was in the Carabinieri. I don't believe that most of the people interviewed were "lawyered" up and would have to see something in that regard to believe it. The roommates worked at a law firm and mainly AFAIK used their lawyers for the lease situation on the cottage. I doubt any of the English girls had lawyers.
It certainly is possible that Edda's arrival was seen as a complicating element it would seem the cops could easily have dealt with it. I wonder why Edda didn't call the State Dept for help before leaving. IIRC when she finally did they gave her the civil lawyer Dalla Vedova because of his English ability.
The kids had risen to the top of the list as the police had eliminated others by checking their alibis etc. They interviewed a lot of people the first 3 days. I'm not sure the list at amandaknoxcase.com is complete but there are a lot of interviews.
The cops obviously got it wrong. The staged break-in set off in the wrong direction. Their shoddy forensics made thing worse. They truly seemed to be real life Keystone Kops. All of that combined with the bizarre thinking of Mignini, Italians in general and the online wackos made this case what it became.
I wonder if people that thought they were guilty for years are angry with themselves for being fooled. Having that anger they see the situation to the extreme. They want to believe that the PLE framed the kids as easy targets knowing full well that they were innocent. Head slaps by the victims account turn into beatings. Rudi becomes an informer on a massive crime wave.
The idea that Raf's family was completely naive strikes me as very humorous especially considering his sister was in the Carabinieri. I don't believe that most of the people interviewed were "lawyered" up and would have to see something in that regard to believe it. The roommates worked at a law firm and mainly AFAIK used their lawyers for the lease situation on the cottage. I doubt any of the English girls had lawyers.
It certainly is possible that Edda's arrival was seen as a complicating element it would seem the cops could easily have dealt with it. I wonder why Edda didn't call the State Dept for help before leaving. IIRC when she finally did they gave her the civil lawyer Dalla Vedova because of his English ability.
The kids had risen to the top of the list as the police had eliminated others by checking their alibis etc. They interviewed a lot of people the first 3 days. I'm not sure the list at amandaknoxcase.com is complete but there are a lot of interviews.
The cops obviously got it wrong. The staged break-in set off in the wrong direction. Their shoddy forensics made thing worse. They truly seemed to be real life Keystone Kops. All of that combined with the bizarre thinking of Mignini, Italians in general and the online wackos made this case what it became.
Grinder
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 10,033
Unlike several of you I never believed they were guilty and certainly not guilty BARD. I followed the case from the very beginning as local news covered it immediately. When the police said they questioned her until she told them what was correct, I knew something was wrong coupled with the weird concept of a sex game gone wrong. Then when Patrick was released it was even more clear. It was possible in my mind that one or other might have been involved but as the evidence was revealed those possibilities diminished.
I wonder if people that thought they were guilty for years are angry with themselves for being fooled. Having that anger they see the situation to the extreme. They want to believe that the PLE framed the kids as easy targets knowing full well that they were innocent. Head slaps by the victims account turn into beatings. Rudi becomes an informer on a massive crime wave.
The idea that Raf's family was completely naive strikes me as very humorous especially considering his sister was in the Carabinieri. I don't believe that most of the people interviewed were "lawyered" up and would have to see something in that regard to believe it. The roommates worked at a law firm and mainly AFAIK used their lawyers for the lease situation on the cottage. I doubt any of the English girls had lawyers.
It certainly is possible that Edda's arrival was seen as a complicating element it would seem the cops could easily have dealt with it. I wonder why Edda didn't call the State Dept for help before leaving. IIRC when she finally did they gave her the civil lawyer Dalla Vedova because of his English ability.
The kids had risen to the top of the list as the police had eliminated others by checking their alibis etc. They interviewed a lot of people the first 3 days. I'm not sure the list at amandaknoxcase.com is complete but there are a lot of interviews.
The cops obviously got it wrong. The staged break-in set off in the wrong direction. Their shoddy forensics made thing worse. They truly seemed to be real life Keystone Kops. All of that combined with the bizarre thinking of Mignini, Italians in general and the online wackos made this case what it became.
I wonder if people that thought they were guilty for years are angry with themselves for being fooled. Having that anger they see the situation to the extreme. They want to believe that the PLE framed the kids as easy targets knowing full well that they were innocent. Head slaps by the victims account turn into beatings. Rudi becomes an informer on a massive crime wave.
The idea that Raf's family was completely naive strikes me as very humorous especially considering his sister was in the Carabinieri. I don't believe that most of the people interviewed were "lawyered" up and would have to see something in that regard to believe it. The roommates worked at a law firm and mainly AFAIK used their lawyers for the lease situation on the cottage. I doubt any of the English girls had lawyers.
It certainly is possible that Edda's arrival was seen as a complicating element it would seem the cops could easily have dealt with it. I wonder why Edda didn't call the State Dept for help before leaving. IIRC when she finally did they gave her the civil lawyer Dalla Vedova because of his English ability.
The kids had risen to the top of the list as the police had eliminated others by checking their alibis etc. They interviewed a lot of people the first 3 days. I'm not sure the list at amandaknoxcase.com is complete but there are a lot of interviews.
The cops obviously got it wrong. The staged break-in set off in the wrong direction. Their shoddy forensics made thing worse. They truly seemed to be real life Keystone Kops. All of that combined with the bizarre thinking of Mignini, Italians in general and the online wackos made this case what it became.
Grinder
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 10,033
Have you read what actually happened when she arrived?
Being an educated person it would hardly be a stretch to believe coercion took place during ALL the interrogations. Lumumba's description of his treatment while in police custody is testimony to this.
If the police believed they had an airtight case they would have recorded all of the interrogations. Instead, they chose to place their case in jeopardy and deny they had done so. What motive would any of them have to compromise the integrity of their case?
The answer should be obvious to those with suspicious minds... such as yours.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 39,508
What difference does that make Grinder? We are not actually talking about Edda, but the mindset of the police being aware that Edda MIGHT be able to cause a problem .
Why would this matter to my premise? What she did after her arrival is of no consequence to the police who were anticipating a problem coming with her arrival.
- Status