Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Thanks for those links. I've made a new page for all the old articles and added those ones to the collection.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/media-reports-2007/


Wow!
There are lots of early Italian newspaper articles here MichaelB!
Small request, but can you find any of the Oggi magazine articles and link them too?

They covered the case pretty well from what I recall,
even bringing up the unknown CCTV eye or ear-witnesses recently...
 
here's more of the article:

They had denounced him and let him go and then stop it again two days later with a group of African drug dealers and a bit 'of drugs in his pocket. From Mobile in Milan they do now know that long ago had noticed in trendy nightclubs. In Perugia investigators waiting for him with anxiety and count the days required by 'extradition from Germany. While in Rome continue the analysis of the artifacts seized at the home of Raffaele Sollecito and get conflicting reports. The 'examination of the computer on which the student of Giovinazzo says he spent the night of 1 November does not show traces of activity from 21 to 6 in the morning. And according to rumors blood Meredith would have been recognized not only on the sponge found in his house but also on underwear that had lent to Amanda.

It also says Rudi was on his way back to Italy. He might have told Giacomo that but it must have been a lie, right?

I thought they put him on a train to Perugia to his police bosses.
 
I think this a misinterpretation of the autopsy. A tampon generically is just a pad to absorb blood or secretions. A tampon was inserted to collect vaginal secretions for forensic analysis. I think people saw a mention of a tampon and made the assumption that this was for menstrual reasons. I can recall no mention of her menstruating.

Possibly it wasn't a typical tampon that gals often use - dunno?

However, Amanda did mention that she at first thought the blood on the blue bathmat may have resulted from Meredith's Menstruation
cycle, and female roomies are often aware of each other's cycles.
 
Coming into the apartment through Romanelli's window out of her door into the hallway, I would expect that he would have orientated himself and instinctively learned the approximate layout including the location of the terrace doors.

Could Kercher have gone to tend to the cats and water the plants downstairs on her return? That's an interesting idea. It would push out the timing of the confrontation conceivably by as much as ten or fifteen minutes.

That seems unlikely to me. I think if Meredith came home, then left for 10-15 mins to go downstairs, Rudy would have left during that time.
 
I prefer Italian Jails?

Grinder,
It's kinda fun watchin' ya try to defend Rudy Guede.
heck, it seems in my opinion, that in your view, Rudy was gettin' laid all the time, worked + had plenty of $$$, but like sellin' stolen stuff on the side, did not do drugs, nor was he never busted or arrested for anything.

Yet I find Rudy Guede's personal statement,
heard during The Skype Call with 1 of his best friends, Giacomo,
(done while helping the police while Rudy was on the run in Germany),
to be very odd:
"I prefer Italian jails".

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rudy_Guede's_Skype_Conversation


Odd too is that 'poor Rudy" could buy a ka-bob,
yet couldn't afford, err pack a few condoms for his "date' with Meredith...

Also,
kinda strange is that Rudy's landlord wanted a letter of employment from him for his continued rental residence at her building.

I wonder if she needed a letter like that too from the Spanish girlz living there?
:confused:
 
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I can feel a lawsuit coming on. This is seriously defamatory.

And he's also made an idiot if himself for getting the story of the knife wrong:

"After overwhelming Meredith, impulsively Amanda decided she needed a knife herself. While Rudy held her from behind with enough of a chokehold to keep her from screaming and Raffaele controlled her with his knife, Amanda left the room to get a weapon. She hadn’t planned to go this far, but emotionally she was already further out on the limb than she had anticipated. She thought to herself, “No time to play around. I might as well take this game to another level. The little bitch deserves it.”

Amanda fumbled in the kitchen drawer to find a knife. She decided on the big one—a big knife would scare Meredith more. Raffaele and Rudy had knives and now she did too. Blood brothers all the way in the game. Still, no blood had really been shed, nor did she intend on shedding any."

This guy cites testimonials for his method from some credentialed people. We should check them out.

Where does this obsession with "two women fighting" come from? Is this the same as how some like to watch women wrestle in mud?? It's really bizarre.

We see the same meme come up, out of whole cloth, from Mignini, Van Der Leek, and now this moron. It's the core meme that drives most of the guilter community. For some reason, they readily accept as fact that Amanda would have been angry at Meredith (for what?), and that would result in her wanting to sexually humiliate her. Where does this "the little bitch deserves it" BS come from? When has anyone, ever, hear Amanda Knox (or anyone else for that matter) say anything similar? I guess it comes from the same place that Mignini got his "we will force you to have sex!" invention.

This is so strange to me, and seems to come from some fantasy image these people have of women.
 
That seems unlikely to me. I think if Meredith came home, then left for 10-15 mins to go downstairs, Rudy would have left during that time.

Agreed. Even if one wants to believe all of the allegations he demurred or fled every time.

The knife wound story has never been fleshed out (pun intended) but if true how he got it would be of interest.
 
Grinder,
It's kinda fun watchin' ya try to defend Rudy Guede.
heck, it seems in my opinion, that in your view, Rudy was gettin' laid all the time, worked + had plenty of $$$, but like sellin' stolen stuff on the side, did not do drugs, nor was he never busted or arrested for anything.

Gee RW it's fun for me to watch you use obviously sketchy articles from early on that conflict with other data to prove who knows what. I guess you are trying to imply that the cops must have covered up his big drug bust cuz he be a stoolie.

"I prefer Italian jails".

But you believe him that he was returning or not?


Odd too is that 'poor Rudy" could buy a ka-bob,
yet couldn't afford, err pack a few condoms for his "date' with Meredith...

Also,
kinda strange is that Rudy's landlord wanted a letter of employment from him for his continued rental residence at her building.

Here in boom-town Seattle it's getting tougher to rent. I've seen the landlady meme for years but don't remember any non true crime source.

You really think it odd that he fed himself but neglected to bring a condom?
 
Grinder said:
Here in boom-town Seattle it's getting tougher to rent.
I've seen the landlady meme for years but don't remember any non true crime source.


It don't matter, man.
In my humble opinion,
you would not even believe it if 2 of Italy's top newspapers reported it,
before the Super Marriot or whatever the name was,
hired us all...
 
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In recent discussions about Rudi in the bathroom and his exit from it, we do not know what Rudi knew of the layout of the upstairs flat.

Did Rudi know that the flat had two bathrooms? Was he concerned that he was hiding in the only bathroom in the flat? Did he fear that the resident who came home a few minutes earlier would soon come to use the bathroom where he was hiding?

The bathroom where Rudi was hiding was accessed through a small narrow laundry room. The front door foyer is next to that. The door to Filomena's bedroom is a few feet from the front door foyer. Upon exiting the bathroom for the front door, and finding it locked, Rudi should have snuck quietly back into Filomena's room to exit through her window. (He would not have been seen if Meredith was in her bedroom or bathroom.) He went after Meredith instead.

Ken Dine recently suggested that an easier exit for Rudi, rather than climb out of Filomena's window, would have been the balcony door. That is in the small hall that passes in front of Amanda's and Meredith's bedrooms. That hall, their two bedrooms, and bathroom are in a separate wing off the main part of the flat. There is no indication that Rudi explored that part of the flat. He may not have known of the balcony door.

Two time points that we have are that Meredith arrived at her flat at about 9:02 pm and that Rudi reported that he heard Meredith scream so loudly that he was concerned that people in the street might have heard it. He said the scream was at about 9:20 pm. I think Rudi was hiding in the bathroom for about 18 minutes when Meredith discovered him at about 9:20.

What was Meredith doing between returning home at 9:02 pm and screaming at 9:20? When she was attacked Meredith had not yet removed her jacket, had not yet called her mother whom she had attempted to call a few minutes before 9 during her walk home but had not gotten through, apparently due to poor phone signal in the narrow streets, and she had not yet moved her laundry (did she even remember when she came home that evening that she had wet clothes that needed to be moved to the dryer?). Did she go downstairs to tend the guys's cat for some of that time? Was she in her room? Doing what? We know she was not on her phone. Was she in her bathroom for a prolonged period?

All good questions. My only correction would be that I don't think the cottage had a clothes dryer and the gals instead used drying racks.

Gals are usually pretty diligent about getting their clothes out of a damp washing machine to avoid a musty smell, so I suspect that would have been something Meredith would have done shortly after arriving home.

Not sure how cold the cottage was at 9:00 pm, but when I walk into my place even when it's cold outside, it's still naturally warm enough inside to immediately remove my jacket. Meredith had a wall heater in her bedroom, but I don't think it was ever turned on?

She also didn't call her mom. Taken altogether, I suspect that Meredith was attacked almost immediately after returning home, and dead by 9:15 pm.

In my experience with women, when they walk in at 9:00 pm, the first thing they do is turn on the heater (if it's cold). Next, they get out of their street clothes (especially the bra) and get into something comfy. They next go wash their face (or take a shower if they need doing that). After she made herself comfy, Meredith likely would have called her mom, or removed her damp clothing and then called her mom.

The only thing we know for certain is that Meredith managed to make it to her bedroom since her purse was found there, but she was interrupted before she had a chance to do anything else that night.
 
Grinder said:
You really think it odd that he fed himself but neglected to bring a condom?


Seriously?
A dude can eat any time,
but gettin' some ***** and protectin' your lil' buddy,
that's, ah, kinda important,
unless you're in a monogy relationship,
like I am right about now...

Weird how Meredith didn't get up off the couch,
(yep folks, Rudy stated, and Grinder, correct me if I'm wrong,
that they were foolin' around on the couch, inside the kitchen),
to go borrow, once again, 1 of Amanda's condoms
to, ya know, do what we all like to do...
:D
 
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Seriously?
A dude can eat any time,
but gettin' some ***** and protectin' your lil' buddy,
that's, ah, kinda important,
unless you're in a monog relationship,
like I am right about now...

good for u.

seriously u think he'd be worried about gettin' somethin' from good gal like Meredith?

Weird how Meredith didn't get up off the couch,
(yep folks, Rudy stated, and Grinder, correct me if I'm wrong,
that they were foolin' around on the couch, inside the kitchen),
to go borrow, once again, 1 of Amanda's condoms
to, ya know, do what we all like to do...
:jaw-dropp

I'm not as interested in how people fool around. Ya know mabes he didn't know about Amanda's vibrator bag and wasn't told.
 
It don't matter, man.
In my humble opinion,
you would not even believe it if 2 of Italy's top newspapers reported it,
before the Super Marriot or whatever the name was,
hired us all...

Man, the article also said they found Meredih's DNA on a sponge at Raf's and on underwear he lent to Amanda. In her words Ewww.

Two ts.
 
Some info is right,
some is wrong...
:rolleyes:

Believe what ya want...
:)

that's seems an MO.

Btw, would you believe him more if he said they touched in her bedroom? why is his story about being in the lounge significant?
 
He worked at Big Al's Pizza - prove he didn't - Read his testimony about the part time jobs he had after the restaurant closed in Milan.

I don't have to prove he didn't. Employment is not the default position here. If he had a job, he would have been referred to as "Rudy Guede, who worked as a waiter at Big Al's Pizza", rather than "Rudy Guede, a local drifter and drug dealer". BTW, I don't use the latter terms, because I don't think they are fair descriptions based on what we know. But if he had any kind of regular job, we would know about it. Would you prefer we call him a "freelancer"? I'm not saying he never worked, just that there is no evidence of any steady income at the time of the murder, and there is evidence of him stealing things.

Yes he was trespassing and had put a knife in his bag for protection because he DIDN'T carry weapons. Milan is way tougher than Perugia. What happened to the knife at CT's.

You don't like people making judgments about Rudy without firm evidence. Yet you have no firm evidence to say he DIDN'T carry weapons. I think that a person who is inside a building where they don't belong, and chooses to take a knife and put it in his backpack, likely plans to take it with them. We don't know exactly what for, but to me this is similar to finding him in possession of stolen property from the law office. He might have a story that gives a more innocent interpretation of his actions, but I don't believe his story.

I didn't see you complaining when PGP Wiki is used. Why do you think they didn't charge him? Why would they make the effort to say he bought or received them knowing they were hot?

I don't complain or comment about everything anyone ever says, and I don't get the relevance. The PGP wiki has a lot of twisted interpretations of the evidence, so I don't consider it a reliable source.

Yes I think he made a policy of not being armed in public as it is a more serious crime than say trespassing.

I don't think we know what policy he had. I don't know what he did on an average Wednesday walking down the street. I think it is more likely he would arm himself with a knife if he was planning a burglary, in case he is discovered and needs to use it to help him escape.

This is so much like the PGP list of reasons the acquittal is a travesty. This is an example of three compatibles = a match. He was caught with stolen loot while trespassing. That's it. No history of violence or anything except lying about going to school.

It really isn't anything like the PGP list. They take things like buying underwear, doing yoga, or smoking a joint, and decide that means AK murdered someone. All I am saying is, based on what we have seen, I think it is likely Rudy was committing burglaries, and carrying a knife when he did so. I am not saying it because he likes to eat kabobs, or because he smokes pot.

As an additional example, the PGP claim Amanda was violent, yet there is not a shred of evidence she ever raised a hand to anyone. That is much more flimsy than saying Rudy was a burglar, and carried a knife, at least sometimes.

Might not succeed? The evidence we have indicates he didn't carry a knife or he wouldn't have borrowed the one at the nursery.

I think you are making claims that are not backed by the evidence we have. We don't know for sure if he carried knives around, or not. He didn't have one of his own when he entered the nursery school, so he decided to take one. We know that much.

I'm no fan of Rudi but I'm trying to brand him properly. I think he was sleezy and I do think he would steal when convenient. As I've said I want the same standards used. Curatolo was worthless. Quintavalle was worthless. Nara was idiotic.

CT's story would be laughed out of here if it went against the kids. Admit it.
Remember the story he talked with Nappy the night of the break in?

I think if there was a Perugia resident who said that he found Amanda Knox in his home in the middle of the night, and she brandished a knife at him, that story would be taken seriously. These stories about Rudy are simply NOT the same types of stories as the ones about Amanda.

The Nappy story was not told by me. I don't really care that much about the CT story, and I don't think this speculation about Rudy really matters much, since we know he killed Meredith, even if he was a choir boy before that.

Do you believe Rudi was an informant? Do you believe the police knew his MO?

I don't know the answer to either of those questions. My inclination at the moment would be to answer "no" to both. I don't think we have any evidence to prove either of those charges.

The two claims about that have generally been put forth by people who used to be in law enforcement in the United States. They think, based on their experience, that local law enforcement was aware of Rudy's activities, and they find it very odd that he was not arrested. So they put two and two together, and they answer is that the police must have been aware, and they did not arrest him because he was working for or with them.

I don't have that experience, and to me, it seems more likely that Rudy was just one of a bunch of young people running around Perugia, and the cops had bigger fish to fry. Or maybe they just don't bother much with petty crime. I know where I live, someone can break the window of your car, steal a bunch of stuff, leave a screwdriver on the seat of your car, and the cops won't even come out to write a report. And I don't live in Italy, so it might be they were willing to give Rudy the benefit of the doubt. I also don't accept the idea that if Rudy had been arrested for the law office burglary, for example, Meredith would not have been killed. He likely would not have spent much, if any, time in jail, and would have been free, awaiting trial.

The informant thing could be true, I don't know, but I don't see any firm evidence of it.
 
Where does this obsession with "two women fighting" come from? Is this the same as how some like to watch women wrestle in mud?? It's really bizarre.

We see the same meme come up, out of whole cloth, from Mignini, Van Der Leek, and now this moron. It's the core meme that drives most of the guilter community. For some reason, they readily accept as fact that Amanda would have been angry at Meredith (for what?), and that would result in her wanting to sexually humiliate her. Where does this "the little bitch deserves it" BS come from? When has anyone, ever, hear Amanda Knox (or anyone else for that matter) say anything similar? I guess it comes from the same place that Mignini got his "we will force you to have sex!" invention.

This is so strange to me, and seems to come from some fantasy image these people have of women.

This guy and some of the guilters have inferred that Kercher snubbed Amanda on Halloween and that the murder was born out of retribution for the slight. Of course they also argue that Amanda had been driven to the edge by Kercher's essentially prudish disapproval for weeks. Yet there is no evidence that anybody was angry with anybody else - though John Kercher asserts that when his daughter flew home to collect winter clothes, she spent the entire flight complaining about Amanda - all this despite much testimony in the very same book that Meredith Kercher never thought bad thoughts about anyone.
 
I'm not as interested in how people fool around. Ya know mabes he didn't know about Amanda's vibrator bag and wasn't told.

I'm not either. To me, Rudy's "I had a date with Meredith" story, and how to treat it, is basic:

1) Despite being out on Halloween with a large number of people, at a party, according to Rudy, not a single person, none of Meredith's friends, none of Rudy's friends, either saw them together, nor were they aware of any date.
2) The "I had a date with her" story is the standard ex post facto story given by rapists worldwide when the cops confront them about their biological evidence being found at the crime scene. "She wanted it!", they claim.

This case should have followed the evidence. The only evidence we have that Meredith invited Rudy over is Rudy saying so. That is not evidence. That is an attempt at an alibi.
 
I think this a misinterpretation of the autopsy. A tampon generically is just a pad to absorb blood or secretions. A tampon was inserted to collect vaginal secretions for forensic analysis. I think people saw a mention of a tampon and made the assumption that this was for menstrual reasons. I can recall no mention of her menstruating.

A mistranslation of "Tamponi vaginali" (Stefanoni presentation pg 37) which simply means the vaginal swab they took to gather forensic evidence, as you said, this doesn't mean that a "tampon" was used and in fact on page 86 of Stefanoni's report is a picture of the utensils used.
 
This guy and some of the guilters have inferred that Kercher snubbed Amanda on Halloween and that the murder was born out of retribution for the slight. Of course they also argue that Amanda had been driven to the edge by Kercher's essentially prudish disapproval for weeks. Yet there is no evidence that anybody was angry with anybody else - though John Kercher asserts that when his daughter flew home to collect winter clothes, she spent the entire flight complaining about Amanda - all this despite much testimony in the very same book that Meredith Kercher never thought bad thoughts about anyone.

Agreed, but even if it was true they were not getting along, why would someone think that it would be even a little bit likely it would end up with one of the girls solving it by forcing the other to have sex at knife point? These people seem so obsessed by this idea they ignore the actual facts of both the case and human behavior.

Not only do they think this is a likely outcome, but they create facts out of thin air to make it seem true. In reality, Meredith was no more "innocent" sexually than Amanda was, and from what we know, it seems likely she was actually a bit more experienced than Amanda in that area, if anything. She was just a bit more private about it, but that is about the only difference.

Do these people know women that act like this? Does anyone? :confused:
 
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