Dylann Roof: The Second Amendment Strikes Again

[Yuchi1]

Riiighhtt. Psycho-babble. You're doing it wrong. You're only projecting YOUR fears onto others. That's all you're doing.



OOH! A conspiracy! How exciting!



Please quote the post where I admitted I was afraid to defend myself, or apologize for putting words in my mouth.

IMO, post(s) 105 (desperate times/desperate measures...really?) , 150, 157 & 163 leave little to the imagination as to your true feelings about self-defense.

IMO, post 167 illustrates your disneyfication as it belies the fact our Second Amendment is what protects our First Amendment.

 

[Yuchi1]

One of my personal favorite intentional misinterpretations of the 2nd Amendment.

Why is government in quotes?

IMO, your interpretation is skewed but then again, much of your other logic as well.

Quotes? To illustrate a point in time when the government ceased to be "by the people".

 

[Belz...]

My point is it's a matter of volume, when new firearms are added to the confiscate list every year, eventually ALL guns may be confiscated its not an unreasonable conclusion

Actually, yes, it is.

 

[NoahFence]

IMO, post(s) 105 (desperate times/desperate measures...really?) , 150, 157 & 163 leave little to the imagination as to your true feelings about self-defense.

Swing and a miss.

IMO, post 167 illustrates your disneyfication as it belies the fact our Second Amendment is what protects our First Amendment.

Uh, no. Laws protect our 1st Amendment. If the 2nd Amendment was designed to protect us from our own government, where are the cries from people WRT Rocket Launchers and M1 Abrams battle tanks? Shouldn't we be up on a box in the square demanding equal arms for all?

Your view of why the 2nd Amendment was enacted is laughably inaccurate.

 

[Belz...]

The U.S. has one of the highest rates of firearm ownership in the world - why can you not protect yourselves with what you already have?

Use logic, man ! If guns make you safer, then logically MORE guns make you MORE safer !

 

[NoahFence]

IMO, your interpretation is skewed but then again, much of your other logic as well.

Quotes? To illustrate a point in time when the government ceased to be "by the people".

So we're in a dictatorship now? Seems to me this government is still "by the people". Did you miss a vote?

 

[ponderingturtle]

So now you're talking about ACCIDENTAL deaths? Particularly ones involving people driving vehicles? Yes I agree vehicles are MUCH more dangerous than firearms.

Thankfully they are licensed based on actual testing and we track who and who does not own them. These of course would be insane restrictions if placed on firearms.

 

[tsig]

Exactly not like that. First, very little domestic violence is committed with guns. Secondly, the difference between offensive violence and defensive violence is rather fundamental, and it makes a big difference to how the threat of each is used as well.



And yet, you don't offer any.

Perhaps you mean something different by "facts" than what everyone else means by "facts".

True, one involves pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger and the other involves pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger, totally different.

 

[RandFan]

IMO, post(s) 105 (desperate times/desperate measures...really?) , 150, 157 & 163 leave little to the imagination as to your true feelings about self-defense.

IMO, post 167 illustrates your disneyfication as it belies the fact our Second Amendment is what protects our First Amendment.

I respect the 2nd Amendment and I find gun control people irrationally afraid of guns. I grew up with guns in rural Utah. I love them. I'm perfectly happy to be called a "gun nut". I subscribe to youtube channels that feature guns. FPS Russia and FUNKER530 being my favorite. I was a member of the NRA from my 16th birthday until I was 31 (see Jack Booted Thugs). When I came to this forum I was a evangelically pro-gun. I followed John Lott and purchased his books.

If you are a typical American and think you need a gun then you are either ignorant of the facts or you don't understand relative risk (meaning you are irrational).

There is no evidence that access to guns makes a society safer. On the contrary. America is far and away more dangerous than industrialized nations that outlaw guns (still not so different it requires one to own a gun).

So, do me a favor, put away the ad hominem and condescension and we can have an adult conversation about the facts without irrational appeals to fear.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The constant benchmark reference of the U.K., Canada & Australia gun situation to that of the USA is a red herring. Those countries are already socialist, nanny-state entities and to compare them to the USA is apples-to-oranges.

And such their people have lost the true american spirit that is the cause of so many murders.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The purpose of the Second Amendment is not for hunting, not even for self-defense of individuals.

It's purpose is to allow the people an opportunity to protect themselves from their own government (such as if the gov't decides to "forget" the other amendments) by not allowing all of the lethal force to be concentrated with a central government.

Which is why bans on anti aircraft weaponry is totally unconstitutional. We need to have more access to explosives and such devices if we want a chance to run a proper insurgent campaign against the US military.

We need to stop waiting time on these stupid gun laws and focus on more militarily useful arms.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Innocent bystanders get killed or injured by stray drive-by's all the frickin time. That's just one legitimate reason to be more afraid of guns than of blunt objects, which was the point YOU brought up.

I looked that up ... I was surprised at the frequency so you have a point .. BUT as usual the stats are skewed anyone under 20 is considered a "child" in the stats ... and intended targets are listed as "innocents" if they are under 20 in many cases.

As you mentioned back to the point I was making ...... Fear of intimate objects was the point ... it's an irrational fear ... the fact cars kill more than both combined does not make me afraid of cars either.

 

[NoahFence]

Which is why bans on anti aircraft weaponry is totally unconstitutional. We need to have more access to explosives and such devices if we want a chance to run a proper insurgent campaign against the US military.

We need to stop waiting time on these stupid gun laws and focus on more militarily useful arms.

Do you suppose I could sue the National Park Service for not allowing me to dredge next to my dock in Southhampton? I'm fighting to get my Battleship docked there and the water is just too shallow.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Swing and a miss.



Uh, no. Laws protect our 1st Amendment. If the 2nd Amendment was designed to protect us from our own government, where are the cries from people WRT Rocket Launchers and M1 Abrams battle tanks? Shouldn't we be up on a box in the square demanding equal arms for all?

Your view of why the 2nd Amendment was enacted is laughably inaccurate.

Hey take the libertarian position and that we need to legalize personal ownership of nuclear weapons.

 

[NoahFence]

I looked that up ... I was surprised at the frequency so you have a point .. BUT as usual the stats are skewed anyone under 20 is considered a "child" in the stats ... and intended targets are listed as "innocents" if they are under 20 in many cases.

As you mentioned back to the point I was making ...... Fear of intimate objects was the point ... it's an irrational fear ... the fact cars kill more than both combined does not make me afraid of cars either.

Stop it. Just stop it.

The point ISN'T children. The point is that injuries and deaths attributed to misuse of guns is massively more than with a baseball bat or whatever blunt object you desire to substitute. Thus it is more than reasonable to be more afraid of guns than whatever blunt object you want to substitute.

Cars aren't designed to kill people. Guns are. Those who cannot or will not see the difference need to step aside and let the adults do the talking.

 

[Border Reiver]

As stated before, civilian possession of firearms via the Second Amendment is primarily to protect the people from their own "government", first and foremost. Hunting and self-defense are additional benefits thereof.

BTW, all of the Canadians that I've personally met are great people, just wouldn't want to live under their form of rule. Of course, 99% of these guys are from western Canada.

Looking at the second amendment - "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Nothing in there about defending yourself FROM the state, the most common use of a militia is to DEFEND THE STATE.

The idea of using your personally owned weapons to stand up the tyranny of the state elected by your fellow citizens is an added bonus thrown in by persons providing commentary.

 

[marplots]

As you mentioned back to the point I was making ...... Fear of intimate objects was the point ... it's an irrational fear ... the fact cars kill more than both combined does not make me afraid of cars either.

Does it follow then that I am rational if I fear animate things instead? Dylann Roof being the object in question.

Perhaps the mantra should be: "Racism doesn't kill people, racists do."

 

[Yuchi1]

I respect the 2nd Amendment and I find gun control people irrationally afraid of guns. I grew up with guns in rural Utah. I love them. I'm perfectly happy to be called a "gun nut". I subscribe to youtube channels that feature guns. FPS Russia and FUNKER530 being my favorite. I was a member of the NRA from my 16th birthday until I was 31 (see Jack Booted Thugs). When I came to this forum I was a evangelically pro-gun. I followed John Lott and purchased his books.

If you are a typical American and think you need a gun then you are either ignorant of the facts or you don't understand relative risk (meaning you are irrational).

There is no evidence that access to guns makes a society safer. On the contrary. America is far and away more dangerous than industrialized nations that outlaw guns (still not so different it requires one to own a gun).

So, do me a favor, put away the ad hominem and condescension and we can have an adult conversation about the facts without irrational appeals to fear.

I understand your home state (Utah) allows CCW in schools. Have there been any mass shootings in any of them?

 

[Yuchi1]

So we're in a dictatorship now? Seems to me this government is still "by the people". Did you miss a vote?

The devil in the details is who the "people" actually are (national elections). If you truly understand the process of how such a candidate is made, you'll get the first sentence.

 

[RandFan]

I understand your home state (Utah) allows CCW in schools. Have there been any mass shootings in any of them?

I understand Disney doesn't allow CCW, tens of millions of visitors per year and not one mass killing. In fact, it's one of the safest places on Earth. Do you have a point?