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Dylann Roof: The Second Amendment Strikes Again

RandFan said:
Getting something done. After Port Arthur Australia banned guns. After Sandy Hook we couldn't implement suggested universal background checks even though the vast majority of America wanted them.

How do I define "will", listening to the experts and the people. Absent a moral imperative not to pass universal background checks it makes no sense in a representative democracy to fail to give so little time to it in congress.

I'm going to bow out of the discussion. I'm failing spectacularly to convey a very simple point. Some times we have to admit when we fail.

Thanks.
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To his eternal credit, John Howard went out and berated the gun lobby into submission - he would front up to pro-gun rallies and forcefully made the case for change, at some personal risk too, and in doing so took the public along with him through the force of his convictions.
 
Yuchi1 said:
IIRC, Utah has allowed CCW in schools for decades and (IIRC) there have been no mass shootings in that states' schools.
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So your position is legalizing CCW for schools in other states.

I, personally, would like to hear your opinions on other aspects of gun ownership. Can you elaborate on the rest of your position?
Background checks?
Insurance?
Other issues discussed in this thread?
 
Yeggster said:
I see .. a "warning shot" of any kind is not allowed ... the brandishing law I've heard before and it's wrong ... a percentage of defensive use of firearms is said to be simple brandishing and normally not reported to police
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The key is neglecting to mention it to them!!!:)
 
There does seem to be some strange misalignment between the politicians and the public over this issue. It would seem that the USA public would support some reasonable further legislation in regards to gun ownership and conditions for buying and using a gun.
 
Yeggster said:
you are exagerating and being silly
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But if we didn't report on the times the police kill people imagine how much better race relations would be?

You would arrest the people who upload videos like the police officer shooting fleeing suspects or reporting that someone arrested for having a legal knife on their person was killed by being thrown around the back of a van while unrestrained by cuffs but unrestrained by seat-belts.

This would have many beneficial effects and preventing rioting.

Or if this is silly when is murder news and when is it something that should go unreported?
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
If there was a complete ban on guns I'd lose mine. More likely I'd transfer to them certain agencies, but the net effect remains the same. We don't need a ban, we need some sanity.
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But anything that makes guns any more difficult to sell or buy is clearly just a step toward a total ban and must be fought tooth and nail, as that is really what they want. It is a giant conspiracy I tell you never listen to anyone who says otherwise.
 
Yuchi1 said:
It is my understanding that law-abiding citizens are forbidden to carry weapons into a house of worship in South Carolina.

What do Columbine, Virginia Tech, Newtown, a theater in Boulder, CO and a mall in Portland, OR all have in common?

They all forbid law-abiding citizens from carrying on the premises.

In Tulsa, Oklahoma each November and April for the past ~22 years the world's largest gunshow has been held with attendance exceeding 50,000 during many of those events.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of guns and tons of ammunition at those events.

There has never been a mass shooting (or, even an intentional individual shooting) at these gun shows nor at any (IIRC) of the other dozens of gunshows held around the country.

Why?

IMO, the monsters that walk among us are insane...however, they are not stupid.

The little sign with the circle/handgun/slash is both an indictment on the failure of social engineering and a welcome mat to these monsters that "here is your killing field and place for your 15 minutes of fame".

IIRC, Utah has allowed CCW in schools for decades and (IIRC) there have been no mass shootings in that states' schools.
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And if only those people who were armed in the movie theater had actually returned fire. COWARDS they should be stripped of their rights to own guns.
 
Elf Grinder 3000 said:
What is the policy you want enacted?

The problem is the gun grabbers don't have any solution or policy. They just shout guns kill people!

There is no law that would have stopped this guy from getting a gun so what is your point?
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And gun lovers know the situation is perfect and can not be improved on that is why they love it so.
 
tyr_13 said:
As far as universal background checks, while Republican/NRA opposition to them plays a part, I think lack of movement on the issue on the federal level is, in part, because it's useful for Dems on the local and state level to push these bills, some/most of which have had unworkable provisions or wording, and have them fail so that they can use them to attack Republicans/NRA. The opposition is more than happy to provide them with this ammo. It's an issue were both sides are behaving badly, even though there is so much agreement in the middle.
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And of course any such bill would have details that would inconvenience people and as such while the idea is attractive to gun owners the reality is far to annoying for them to put up with for the sake of limiting criminal access to guns.
 
Border Reiver said:
Except the crime rate in the States is higher than say, Canada, where there are also lower rates of firearms ownership. Obviously, despite your many firearms you aren't able to protect yourselves as well as you think.
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I don't have stats handy ... but I read some time ago (6 or 8 years) that if you removes 5 major cities crimes rates from the USA statistics, the crime rate in Canada and the US are very similar.

The idea is HUGE cites we just do not have the population to fill in Canada and huge cites are very difficult to police.

Any thoughts on this ... any one have stats or heard of the idea?
 
Crossbow said:
Ummm, ...

Are you sure that is correct?

Since guns are deadly weapons, therefore I am afraid of them; and as such, I find that fear to be quite rational indeed.
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There are a lot of things that can kill you. I am not afraid of them I simply do my best to avoid the avoidable ones and make an effort to know how to have a good chance to survive the others!!!
 
ponderingturtle said:
But if we didn't report on the times the police kill people imagine how much better race relations would be?
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This parallel is very close you have a very good point ... I have to say police shootings should still go fully reported and yes they seem to invite riots etc because of the outrage, BUT the idea of creating a MARTAR (in the case of the victim of police shootings) is slightly different than creating a celebrity (in the case of lone, mass shooters)

The idea I'm proposing is to stop reporting shoot ups where expert agree there's a high likelihood of "copy cats"

One example I have personal experience with is, (although admittedly it's a poor comparison) and I know this is done in Toronto presently (I assume in US Cities as well?) ... in regards to suicides on subway lines ... when people who commit suicide by jumping on to the tracks, it is rarely reported ... the idea is to reduce "copy cats".
 
Crossbow said:
Ummm, ...

Are you sure that is correct?

Since guns are deadly weapons, therefore I am afraid of them; and as such, I find that fear to be quite rational indeed.
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Are you also afraid of blunt objects? .. people are killed much more frequently by these.
 
Yeggster said:
Are you also afraid of blunt objects? .. people are killed much more frequently by these.
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Misinformation (I won't go so far as to call it a lie because you probably genuinely believe it but it is wrong by a factor of about 20)

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

picture.php
 
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fuelair said:
There are a lot of things that can kill you. I am not afraid of them I simply do my best to avoid the avoidable ones and make an effort to know how to have a good chance to survive the others!!!
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Please permit me to doubt.

I have found that it is very easy to say for one to say that they are not afraid of something when that person is saying so from the safety of their keyboard.
 
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