South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Vortigern99]

I've posted an unpopular opinion and am understandably being dogpiled about it. I comprehend and acknowledge the prevailing view, and I disagree with it for reasons I've explained. But it seems my viewpoint is being intentionally misunderstood and my position is being strawmanned and distorted. I'm going to move on with my life now.

 

[pgwenthold]

They could come up with a flag that wasn't flown by the Confederacy,

Yeah, I've suggested that. I've suggested if you want a symbol of southern culture, use chitlins or something.

But then again, I disagree with myself.

No, this "southern culture" isn't near as coherent as being asserted. Mississippi is not the same as Virginia. Not at all. South Carolina is not Kentucky. They are very different places. Shoot, you can't even get Texas and North Carolina to agree on what constitutes barbecue!

And is Florida even part of the confederacy?

So what is it is that ties all those states together? What "southern culture" is there that unifies them? I wonder....

 

[Checkmite]

I've posted an unpopular opinion and am understandably being dogpiled about it.

You mean lots of people are expressing their difference of opinion and that's not fair.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I've posted an unpopular opinion and am understandably being dogpiled about it. I comprehend and acknowledge the prevailing view, and I disagree with it for reasons I've explained. But it seems my viewpoint is being intentionally misunderstood and my position is being strawmanned and distorted. I'm going to move on with my life now.

People who fly that flag are either racist or ignorant as to its history, and I will view them as such.

The flag is question was first flown to make a stand against the integration of the schools by the federal government.

And remember it never symbolized the south as a whole, only ever proper white southern values. To suggest that it would include black southern culture is bizarre in the extreme.

 

[ponderingturtle]

And is Florida even part of the confederacy?

Not since 1865, but before that for about 4 years yes.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I've posted an unpopular opinion and am understandably being dogpiled about it. I comprehend and acknowledge the prevailing view, and I disagree with it for reasons I've explained. But it seems my viewpoint is being intentionally misunderstood and my position is being strawmanned and distorted. I'm going to move on with my life now.

I'm not straw manning you or distorting your position. I know you believe what you are typing. I'm just telling you that you are wrong.

 

[dudalb]

On a debate on the Rebel Rag last night, CNN had on a member of the League Of the South;it was prime. The guy was not only enraged that about the proposol that the Confederate Flag be torn down from the S.C. statehouse,but angry that the American Flag is flown over the State House. When the host made the point "well,it's all one country" the guy said No,it's not. The guy did not get a chance to go intodetail on this.but from what the League Of the South supports you can pretty well guess:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_South

Sounds to me like the Klan without the Halloween Costumes......
And considering their emphasis on a "Christian South" I would not like to be a Jew in their New Confederacy....

 

[pgwenthold]

I've posted an unpopular opinion and am understandably being dogpiled about it. I comprehend and acknowledge the prevailing view, and I disagree with it for reasons I've explained. But it seems my viewpoint is being intentionally misunderstood and my position is being strawmanned and distorted. I'm going to move on with my life now.

I think you are completely wrong about our interpretations of your viewpoint.

Speaking only for myself, I just think it is way off the mark and completely unsupportable.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You mean lots of people are expressing their difference of opinion and that's not fair.

It is almost as if it does not mean what he says it means to a vast majority of people.

 

[NoahFence]

The Confederate flag has been used to symbolize hate and oppression, which I and others find unfortunate. But that's not the exclusive, strict, inflexible meaning of the flag.

The Cross is used by the KKK to symbolize white supremacy. But I don't see any outrage expressed when churches everywhere employ the same symbol to mean something else.

Interesting you bring up the KKK.

It's my contention that the use of the confederate flag (derp... Virgina battle flag!! ) was meant to replace the hoods and robes when times changed and there was no longer any use for them. Well, today we hope that the confederate flag suffers the same fate as the hoods and robes of the KKK.

 

[ponderingturtle]

On a debate on the Rebel Rag last night, CNN had on a member of the League Of the South;it was prime. The guy was not only enraged that about the proposol that the Confederate Flag be torn down from the S.C. statehouse,but angry that the American Flag is flown over the State House. When the host made the point "well,it's all one country" the guy said No,it's not. The guy did not get a chance to go intodetail on this.but from what the League Of the South supports you can pretty well guess:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_South

Sounds to me like the Klan without the Halloween Costumes......

Nice to see people keeping southern culture alive.

 

[dudalb]

And the Jokes Begin

"What is the most popular Song in Charleston right now?"

"The Night They Tore Old Dixie Down".....

 

[Axiom_Blade]

So, we've finally given up on talking about gun control? Is that the conclusion I can draw out of this? The best debate people can draw out of this is whether or not it's okay to fly a flag?

 

[pgwenthold]

On a debate on the Rebel Rag last night, CNN had on a member of the League Of the South;it was prime. .

OK, I realize that CNN needs ratings, but this is a good example of how our modern media fails. By including that nut, they didn't even try to make it a rational discussion.

"Let's have a discussion about the Confederate flag. Find me the biggest moron you can to support it. Call these guys. They are apparently completely off their rocker."

 

[Cleon]

On a debate on the Rebel Rag last night, CNN had on a member of the League Of the South;it was prime. The guy was not only enraged that about the proposol that the Confederate Flag be torn down from the S.C. statehouse,but angry that the American Flag is flown over the State House. When the host made the point "well,it's all one country" the guy said No,it's not. The guy did not get a chance to go intodetail on this.but from what the League Of the South supports you can pretty well guess:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_South

Sounds to me like the Klan without the Halloween Costumes......

Pretty much. The LOS is unique among Confederados in that they still think secession is a good idea.

They've also set up a paramilitary training camp about an hour from where I live, and I can't tell you how warm and fuzzy that makes me.

 

[dudalb]

Nice to see people keeping southern culture alive.

If I ever pass some kind of demonstration by those peckerwoods,I am going to sing "Marching through Georgia" at the top of my voice.....

 

[Vortigern99]

You've got it backwards. It symbolized hate and oppression before "non-racist" Southerners tried to associate it with "Southern culture."

Same deal; the cross was around and widely used long before the KKK. Conversely, the Confederate flag was not around before the Confederacy.

To wrap up my contribution, I see the points being made here. I understand your perspective. It's for these reasons that I don't fly the Confederate flag, and why I agree that public institutions shouldn't fly it.

I've been trying to explain how a non-racist, non-hateful Southerner can fly the flag without the supremacist associations you lot inextricably attach to it. I personally know people who are not lying, racist, secessionist traitors, who imbue the Confederate symbol with a different meaning than the one my interlocutors insist must rigidly attach to it because of its history. But I can't seem to make my position understood without distortion, oversimplification, and accusations of stupidity or hate. So with that, we'll have to agree to disagree on the finer points of this debate. Good day to you all.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So, we've finally given up on talking about gun control? Is that the conclusion I can draw out of this? The best debate people can draw out of this is whether or not it's okay to fly a flag?

This thread is about the flag. Not about gun control. There are other threads about gun control.

This has been a public service announcement for those who cannot observe the obvious.

 

[Checkmite]

So, we've finally given up on talking about gun control? Is that the conclusion I can draw out of this? The best debate people can draw out of this is whether or not it's okay to fly a flag?

Correct. You can have an opinion on either the flag or gun control, but it's not possible to have a position on both issues.

 

[ponderingturtle]

To wrap this up, I see the points being made here. I understand your perspective. It's for these reasons that I don't fly the Confederate flag, and why I agree that public institutions shouldn't fly it.

I've been trying to explain how a non-racist, non-hateful Southerner can fly the flag without the supremacist associations you lot inextricably attach to it. I personally know people who are not lying, racist, secessionist traitors, who imbue the Confederate symbol with a different meaning than the one my interlocutors insist must rigidly attach to it because of its history. But I can't seem to make my position understood without distortion, oversimplification, and accusations of stupidity or hate. So with that, we'll have to agree to disagree on the finer points of this debate. Good day to you all.

Then they are ignorant as to the history it represents as they embrace it.