Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[acbytesla]

Please give me a citation wherein Mignini claims the Kercher murder was to do with masons or satanists.

Mignini is entitled to his personal faith. So what if he's a Catholic? Does the Pope pray?

. As late as October 2008, a year after the murder, he told a court that the murder “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Halloween. A sexual and sacrificial rite [that] in the intention of the organizers … should have occurred 24 hours earlier” — on Halloween itself — “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organized by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day.”

He does have a right to his faith. As long as he keeps that away from his job. That he is constantly on the lookout for murders that are satanic rituals as he did in this case and the Monster of Florence is a big red flag,

Thanks Kauffer, you beat me to the punch.

 

[Vixen]

"Mignini always included witch fear in his murder theory, and only reluctantly relinquished it. As late as October 2008, a year after the murder, he told a court that the murder “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Halloween. A sexual and sacrificial rite [that] in the intention of the organizers … should have occurred 24 hours earlier” — on Halloween itself — “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organized by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day.”"

http://nypost.com/2011/10/02/how-occult-obsessed-prosecutor-turned-knox-trial-into-a-witch-hunt/

So claims the NY hack. I could not see anything in Mignini's closing submissions that said anything of the kind. What he did say was Raff had a manga comic that appeared to mirror the scene found. As the manga story happens at halloween, he reasons it might have been late because of the above circumstances.

Seems a fair enough deduction to me.

 

[Vixen]

. As late as October 2008, a year after the murder, he told a court that the murder “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Halloween. A sexual and sacrificial rite [that] in the intention of the organizers … should have occurred 24 hours earlier” — on Halloween itself — “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organized by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day.”

He does have a right to his faith. As long as he keeps that away from his job. That he is constantly on the lookout for murders that are satanic rituals as he did in this case and the Monster of Florence is a big red flag,

Thanks Kauffer, you beat me to the punch.

So you don't think the murder was the work of a monster or monsters?

 

[acbytesla]

To be fair, the murder did happen on the eve of All Souls and All Saints or whatever, one day after Halloween. It's reasonable for investigators to consider whether that might be significant, perhaps delayed from halloween. The fact it was a Thursday, the satanist's sabbat, as opposed to Jews/Seventh Day Adventists Friday start of the Sabbath, has to be considered as a null hypothesis, to be rejected if it doesn't fit. There was blood from the black cat downstairs. The victim had dressed as a vampire. Both Raff and Amanda made much about Mez having vampire blood make up on her chin when they saw her earlier that day. The body was found in the same position as in Raff's manga comic, found in his appartment, 'Blood, the Last Vampire Slayer', with similar blood marks on the wall.

The footprints found were strangely one-legged. The tecs have to puzzle out why. A masonic ritual (based on ancient Egyptian beelzebub/basphamet worship) involves one foot.

Why shouldn't detectives consider all of these possible explanations?

I have known third degree grandmaster masons and satanists (who thought it fun to prance around Highgate Cemetery at night). In the days of the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club they even had satanist Aleister Crowley on the cover. Lots of people lived by Crowley's adage, "Do thou what thy willst", as rebellion against "the Establishment".

Are you claiming masons and satanists do not exist?

What is your problem with cops investigating this angle?

Your kidding...right? Just how many satanic ritual murders do you think happen Vixen?

Were there pentagrams, lit candles and chicken bones? Nope.So why would you view it as a ritual murder?
What's wrong with investigating the murder for what it obviously was? A burglary gone wrong?

 

[Bill Williams]

. As late as October 2008, a year after the murder, he told a court that the murder “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Halloween. A sexual and sacrificial rite [that] in the intention of the organizers … should have occurred 24 hours earlier” — on Halloween itself — “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organized by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day.”

He does have a right to his faith. As long as he keeps that away from his job. That he is constantly on the lookout for murders that are satanic rituals as he did in this case and the Monster of Florence is a big red flag,

Thanks Kauffer, you beat me to the punch.

When I summarized Machiavelli's belief as this being a Masonic murder he corrected me.

Scroll back to former Continuations to find it. Apparently it goes like this:

The president of the Perugian Court of Appeal succumbed to Masonic pressure by having Judge Hellmann appointed for the 2011 trial. De Nunzio wanted a known Mason, Hellmann, trying the case.

But it was really American media interests, funneling money to key Italian jurists, like Hellmann (and now presumably to Marasca and Bruno) through international Masonic connections - which got the off in 2011 and 2015.

I don't think Mignini has ever publicly blamed the Masons. But he has certainly cited interference from an overseas PR campaign.

 

[acbytesla]

So you don't think the murder was the work of a monster or monsters?

Nope. Just a sick and desperate man.

 

[Kauffer]

So claims the NY hack. I could not see anything in Mignini's closing submissions that said anything of the kind. What he did say was Raff had a manga comic that appeared to mirror the scene found. As the manga story happens at halloween, he reasons it might have been late because of the above circumstances.

Seems a fair enough deduction to me.

"October 19 2008, Giuliano Mignini addresses the court
The murder, Il Tempo newspaper reported him telling the court, “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and sacrificial rite ... In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”"

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...zvDjG6MRtMmufa0kwrIxA/mobilebasic?pli=1&hl=en

 

[acbytesla]

When I summarized Machiavelli's belief as this being a Masonic murder he corrected me.

Scroll back to former Continuations to find it. Apparently it goes like this:

The president of the Perugian Court of Appeal succumbed to Masonic pressure by having Judge Hellmann appointed for the 2011 trial. De Nunzio wanted a known Mason, Hellmann, trying the case.

But it was really American media interests, funneling money to key Italian jurists, like Hellmann (and now presumably to Marasca and Bruno) through international Masonic connections - which got the off in 2011 and 2015.

I don't think Mignini has ever publicly blamed the Masons. But he has certainly cited interference from an overseas PR campaign.

Mach was seriously obsessed with the Masons. He saw Masonic conspiracies everywhere. But in a way I understand this. Perugia has 24 Masonic temples. They do exert a certain amount of influence, but it's not what Mach or the other crazies think it is.

Masons believe in a higher power, but not any specific higher power. They strongly believe in rational thought and service to one another. But to Catholics, they divert people from the true faith. In the mind of the church, anything even if it does good but takes people away from theIraq idea of God is the work of the devil.

 

[davefoc]

When I summarized Machiavelli's belief as this being a Masonic murder he corrected me.

Scroll back to former Continuations to find it. Apparently it goes like this:

The president of the Perugian Court of Appeal succumbed to Masonic pressure by having Judge Hellmann appointed for the 2011 trial. De Nunzio wanted a known Mason, Hellmann, trying the case.

But it was really American media interests, funneling money to key Italian jurists, like Hellmann (and now presumably to Marasca and Bruno) through international Masonic connections - which got the off in 2011 and 2015.

I don't think Mignini has ever publicly blamed the Masons. But he has certainly cited interference from an overseas PR campaign.

I'm sorry but I don't understand your post. Was it Mignini making claims about Masons manipulating the selection of judges?

ETA: I thought you were addressing issues about Mignini's theories in your post. Perhaps you were just explaining how Machiavelli and others saw the Masons playing a role in freeing AK/RS?

 

[Numbers]

I see there being several options:

1. Stefano is lying. The bed and fittings were bloodied before they left for the weekend and he is taking the opportunity to blame the mess on somebody else.

2. There was indeed somebody in the apartment below while the boys were out of town and we know who she was. The possibility exists that she unlocked the door thus letting the cat in then on a subsequent visit started dealing with the mess before returning to her own apartment.

3. An intruder broke in, somehow had a key to that bedroom door to unlock it, proceeded to trash the room leaving blood everywhere then locked the door again.

4. The police needing to solve the crime upstairs quickly started modifying the downstairs apartment to fit-up the forieners close to the victim before discovering that the boys all had air tight alibis.

I believe #1 would be most consistent with someone from a group of three young men who, not liking one of their flatmates, pissed onto his floor through his window. But somehow I think Bonassi did not trash his own room, although it's possible I am wrong about that. However, since he states his girlfriend visited him in his room, there is the possibility of menstrual blood having been deposited.

For scenario #2, why would Meredith have gone into Bonassi's bedroom? The pot plants were in their own little closet, IIUC.

Whose blood did the police deposit for scenario #4? Too bad Stefanoni suppressed all the human DNA profiles she obtained from the downstairs bloodstains. And whether the DNA she profiled was from the bloodstains or inadvertently from the underlying surface, we know for sure it was human rather than cat, because the PCR commercially available is primate-specific.

 

[zotz]

To be fair, the murder did happen on the eve of All Souls and All Saints or whatever, one day after Halloween. It's reasonable for investigators to consider whether that might be significant, perhaps delayed from halloween. The fact it was a Thursday, the satanist's sabbat, as opposed to Jews/Seventh Day Adventists Friday start of the Sabbath, has to be considered as a null hypothesis, to be rejected if it doesn't fit. There was blood from the black cat downstairs. The victim had dressed as a vampire. Both Raff and Amanda made much about Mez having vampire blood make up on her chin when they saw her earlier that day. The body was found in the same position as in Raff's manga comic, found in his appartment, 'Blood, the Last Vampire Slayer', with similar blood marks on the wall.

The footprints found were strangely one-legged. The tecs have to puzzle out why. A masonic ritual (based on ancient Egyptian beelzebub/basphamet worship) involves one foot.

Why shouldn't detectives consider all of these possible explanations?

I have known third degree grandmaster masons and satanists (who thought it fun to prance around Highgate Cemetery at night). In the days of the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club they even had satanist Aleister Crowley on the cover. Lots of people lived by Crowley's adage, "Do thou what thy willst", as rebellion against "the Establishment".

Are you claiming masons and satanists do not exist?

What is your problem with cops investigating this angle?

What about waiting until the fingerprint and DNA analysis comes back? What about actually checking alibis before arresting someone based on a confused vision? What about doing a crime scene investigation and actually collecting the victim's bloody clothing and storing it properly? What about changing gloves in between handling the evidence? What about allowing the coroner to determine the victim's body temperature? What about not destroying three computer hard drives and misplacing Amanda's camera? What about recording the interrogations? What about determining the facts first and only afterwards develop a theory? What about not trying the case through the gutter press? What about testing a semen stain in between the legs of a victim of a sex related murder?

Why?... Because these people are not professionals and it is more fun to talk about Halloween, black cats, satanism, masonic rituals, bunny vibrators, vasoline, "la mossa", cartwheels, blah, blah, blah... Innocent people suffered because of the incompetent police, prosecutors, judges, and irresponsible tabloid press. BTW, that includes the Kerchers who were manipulated and lied to throughout the entire process.

 

[carbonjam72]

To be fair, the murder did happen on the eve of All Souls and All Saints or whatever, one day after Halloween. It's reasonable for investigators to consider whether that might be significant, perhaps delayed from halloween. The fact it was a Thursday, the satanist's sabbat, as opposed to Jews/Seventh Day Adventists Friday start of the Sabbath, has to be considered as a null hypothesis, to be rejected if it doesn't fit. There was blood from the black cat downstairs. The victim had dressed as a vampire. Both Raff and Amanda made much about Mez having vampire blood make up on her chin when they saw her earlier that day. The body was found in the same position as in Raff's manga comic, found in his appartment, 'Blood, the Last Vampire Slayer', with similar blood marks on the wall.

The footprints found were strangely one-legged. The tecs have to puzzle out why. A masonic ritual (based on ancient Egyptian beelzebub/basphamet worship) involves one foot.

Why shouldn't detectives consider all of these possible explanations?
I have known third degree grandmaster masons and satanists (who thought it fun to prance around Highgate Cemetery at night). In the days of the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club they even had satanist Aleister Crowley on the cover. Lots of people lived by Crowley's adage, "Do thou what thy willst", as rebellion against "the Establishment".

Are you claiming masons and satanists do not exist?

What is your problem with cops investigating this angle?

Yes, detectives should keep an open mind in general, I agree.

Giuliano Mignini was characterized by the prosecutor at his criminal trial as 'having fallen prey to a kind of delirium'. Comparing Mignini's efforts in this case to a "witch hunt" is no off hand comparison.

Giuliano Mignini is a demonstrated, proven, manifest mad man, who should never have been allowed to continue in office, at the latest, after his false imprisonment of Mario Spezi in April of 2006.

It speaks volumes about the inertia of the Italian judiciary that the only practical way to remove Mignini from office, was by promoting him, rather than through imprisonment.

Mignini's criminal efforts against Amanda Knox under the color of law, may yet be his undoing. I guess we just have to be patient.

But your 'sympathy for the devil', is well noted.

 

[carbonjam72]

I see there being several options:

1. Stefano is lying. The bed and fittings were bloodied before they left for the weekend and he is taking the opportunity to blame the mess on somebody else.

2. There was indeed somebody in the apartment below while the boys were out of town and we know who she was. The possibility exists that she unlocked the door thus letting the cat in then on a subsequent visit started dealing with the mess before returning to her own apartment.

3. An intruder broke in, somehow had a key to that bedroom door to unlock it, proceeded to trash the room leaving blood everywhere then locked the door again.

4. The police needing to solve the crime upstairs quickly started modifying the downstairs apartment to fit-up the forieners close to the victim before discovering that the boys all had air tight alibis.

Is it also possible Dan, that you've made a mistake in your suppositions?

It could also be that Rudy knew how to enter the room without a key? I've seen it on TV, maybe those more familiar with B&E on these boards would have more insight.

Also, was there ever any species specific test to confirm that the blood detected was cat's blood?

There were human DNA sample, including on the light switch. You could argue that's environmental contamination,. but that doesn't seem like a slam dunk. Especially if we don't know whose DNA profile(s) were on the light switch. Rudy's DNA on the light switch would be tough to explain, imo.

 

[Ken Dine]

Actually Knox and Lumumba. The switch from PL to RG wasn't at Mignini's choice.

What do you mean it wasn't at his choice? I was under the impression that he runs the show. Who gets charged,,,,etc. I've read quotes where he says he doesn't have a choice, but in reality that is a lie.

I think Antony meant the switch was forced upon Mignini after it became clear Lumumba had an alibi and they had jumped the gun, so Guede had to be switched in as their African suspect.

I suspect the police concealed to some extent how their attention had swung to Guede, apparently within days of the 'Case Closed' announcement on Nov 6th.

They had the CCTV footage showing a thinner African suspect than Lumumba, but not sure if the unreleased CTTV footage showed Guede's facial features?

Amanda and the boys downstairs all mentioned Guede early on, but not sure if anyone actually knew Guede's real name?

The police claim they identified Guede from his bloody palm prints on the pillow case, but they likely didn't have any of Guede's palm prints on file ...later, after Guede's capture, I guess they could have used palm prints to confirm he was there.

There are occasional mentions of fingerprints in media reports and Guede's fingerprints were on file since he was an alien. However, were Guede's latent prints of good enough quality to ID him? Where were any fingerprints found?

If the police found good latent prints on the window glass in Filomena's room, would they say that since it would conflict with their theory that Amanda & Raffaele had staged the break-in?

The judges' lengthy motivation reports allow for a fairly good critical look at the case, but since the police were both inept and lying at every turn, their reports and accounts of what they 'claimed' they found or witnessed can't be trusted.

 

[Bill Williams]

Yes, detectives should keep an open mind in general, I agree.

Giuliano Mignini was characterized by the prosecutor at his criminal trial as 'having fallen prey to a kind of delirium'. Comparing Mignini's efforts in this case to a "witch hunt" is no off hand comparison.

Giuliano Mignini is a demonstrated, proven, manifest mad man, who should never have been allowed to continue in office, at the latest, after his false imprisonment of Mario Spezi in April of 2006.

It speaks volumes about the inertia of the Italian judiciary that the only practical way to remove Mignini from office, was by promoting him, rather than through imprisonment.

Mignini's criminal efforts against Amanda Knox under the color of law, may yet be his undoing. I guess we just have to be patient.

But your 'sympathy for the devil', is well noted.

Spezi's story might be unknown to us here on this side of the Atlantic if Mignini had not gone after Douglas Preston the way he did.

Preston's own contribution to this was to corroborate what everyone else said about Mignini, through first hand experience.

And the common pattern emerges. Guilters/Mignini-supporters line up to vilify Spezi, Preston, Knox, Sollecito, their families and supporters. The vile slander aimed by Mignini-supporters proves that Mignini is, if nothing else, into something very ugly, if it takes that kind of vileness to "defend" him.

Last word to Mignini. Immediately following the Oct 2011 acquittals of Knox/Sollecio, Mignini said that all his problems started with the Narducci affair. Even Mignini knows in his heart what this is all about, and where straight-lines can be drawn.

 

[Bill Williams]

What about waiting until the fingerprint and DNA analysis comes back? What about actually checking alibis before arresting someone based on a confused vision? What about doing a crime scene investigation and actually collecting the victim's bloody clothing and storing it properly? What about changing gloves in between handling the evidence? What about allowing the coroner to determine the victim's body temperature? What about not destroying three computer hard drives and misplacing Amanda's camera? What about recording the interrogations? What about determining the facts first and only afterwards develop a theory? What about not trying the case through the gutter press? What about testing a semen stain in between the legs of a victim of a sex related murder?

Why?... Because these people are not professionals and it is more fun to talk about Halloween, black cats, satanism, masonic rituals, bunny vibrators, vasoline, "la mossa", cartwheels, blah, blah, blah... Innocent people suffered because of the incompetent police, prosecutors, judges, and irresponsible tabloid press. BTW, that includes the Kerchers who were manipulated and lied to throughout the entire process.

Mignini cannot have it both ways. On the night of the interrogations (Nov 5/6, 2007), Mignini called Amanda Knox a liar and an actress. Yet he derived from that, that he had to arrest Lumumba. Why? "Because Amanda accused him."

Let's all just think on that, and consider if this is a man who is a great detective.

 

[carbonjam72]

Turning the page on the MOF

A court has ordered reinstatement Giuttari into the police department complimenting his exceptional police work.

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronac...iflettero_se_rientrare_in_polizia_-116986429/

Thanks for posting this Grinder, I think this is pretty significant.

Looks like they are closing the books on the false convictions of Vanni and Lotti as accomplices to Pacciani in the Monster of Florence serial killings.

It still remains to be seen if Mignini will be allowed to skate for his deranged criminal conduct in framing Amanda and Raf.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Are you saying, "We hate Roman Catholics. Mignini is one, therefore we have nothing but contempt for him as we ourselves are atheists or even satanists"?

Those pesky Reptilian Satanists, they're everywhere.
Not only infiltrating Italian Supreme Court but even On Internet forums...

 

[Bill Williams]

Douglas Preston had some valuable insights into the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case, as noted in this interview he gave. He explains how the Italian concept of "dieterologia" helped in taking the prosecution off the rails:

http://www.nuok.it/uncategorized/tales-from-italy-s-dark-side-interview-with-douglas-preston/

4. You mention the concept of dietrologia several times throughout the book. What did you learn about the way Italy works while living there and researching for your book and how did this clash with the way you viewed the country before your arrival?

Having close relatives who lived in Italy for years I knew something about the way Italy works. But the concept of dietrologia was new to me – the idea that the truth is never the obvious thing; that the truth is always deeply hidden behind a false façade of normalcy. This concept is harmless in daily life but can (and does) wreak havoc in Italian criminal investigations, where some investigators reject the obvious truths while searching for a complex conspiracy hidden behind. This is what happened in the Monster of Florence case, one of the main reasons the case has never been satisfactorily solved.

Our own judicial system here in America has severe problems; look at Guantanamo, for example. My criticism is mostly leveled at pm of Perugia, Giuliano Mignini, and his abusive actions in the Monster of Florence case, for which he was recently convicted and sentenced to sixteen months in prison. The Italian judicial system, in convicting Mignini, worked very well indeed! So it is not the system; it is a single abusive prosecutor who is the problem. Yes, he does appear to be overly interested in with Satanic cults. As Luca Turco, one of the prosecutors in his case, said, Mignini “is a man in pray to a sort of delirium.”

Mignini was eventually acquitted of those charges.

 

[Katody Matrass]

So claims the NY hack. I could not see anything in Mignini's closing submissions that said anything of the kind. What he did say was Raff had a manga comic that appeared to mirror the scene found. As the manga story happens at halloween, he reasons it might have been late because of the above circumstances.

Seems a fair enough deduction to me.

Please provide a citation.