South Carolina, tear down that flag!

Alferd_Packer

Philosopher
Alferd_Packer
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
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To paraphrase Ronald Reagan,

TEAR DOWN THAT FLAG!

seriously?

Seriously?

You fly all the other flags at half mast, yet leave the racist symbol up a full mast?
 
Alferd_Packer said:
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan,

TEAR DOWN THAT FLAG!

seriously?

Seriously?

You fly all the other flags at half mast, yet leave the racist symbol up a full mast?
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I don't understand the reference to all the other flags flying at half mast?
 
Agreed, we need a link.
I suspect I know what happened (and would bet it involved the Confederate flag) but we need a link.
 
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Just checked.
Yeah, all flags at the Carolina Capital Building lowered except the Confederate Flag.

Looks as if South Carolina needs another visit from General Sherman.

"Hail ,Columbia, Happy Land
If We don't Burn you, we're be damned".

(Song sung by Sherman's "Bummers" as they approached Columbia, the capitol of South Carolina during the Civl War:.it was a parody of a patriotic song "Hail Columbia Happy Land" which is still heard;it;s the offical march for the Vice President. Sherman's boys were partiuclary tough on South Carolina consideirng it "The Hellhole of Secession" ).
 
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332nd said:
Yeah, it seems that the state & national flag are at half staff but the confederate flag is still flying high because they made that one so there was no way to lower it.
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So just take the damn thing down.

Steve S
 
Actually, it makes perfect sense.

Flags are lowered to half staff when the entity represented by the flag is in mourning. In other words, state and national flags would be lowered to show that the state and nation are in mourning. If a city flag was being flown, that would make sense to lower to half staff, too.

Flags that are not the official symbol of a governmental entity are not lowered to half staff.

For example, a signal flag would not be lowered to half staff. A corporate flag could be ordered to half staff, although it would generally only be done for an employee of the corporation.


The flag in question is the Confederate Battle Flag (it is not the Confederate Flag, despite the common error in labeling it as such). It doesn't represent a governmental entity at all. It represents an army that no longer exists. There is no particular reason it ought to be lowered.

I learned all of this shortly after the death of Princess Diana. There was outrage in Britain that the royal flag atop Buckingham Palace was not lowered to half staff. I read an article by one the heralds there bemoaning the lack of knowledge on the part of the press that was printing articles questioning why the flag was not lowered. The royal flag is apparently a signal flag. It is flown above the royal residence if and only if The Queen is present at the residence at the time. Only the Union Flag (which he pointed out was not the Union Jack) should be lowered during times of national mourning, and that the Union Flag was being appropriately lowered.

On the other hand, The Queen and/or her staff showed more sense than the South Carolina government, apparently. Despite the Herald's objections, they decided it was better to look good in the public eye than to follow ancient, but widely misunderstood, traditions related to flags, so they lowered the royal flag to half staff.

I would be curious to know if there are flags flying at South Carolina National Guard bases, and if those flags have been lowered. I'm sure that the state flags probably have been lowered, but I'm curious if the National Guard of South Carolina has its own flag, and whether it has been lowered.
 
Section 7(c) of the US Flag Code

www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf

says that

(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the
right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services
conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown
above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person
shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international
flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to or in place
of the flag of the United States or any Territory or possession thereof
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In this case, the legislature of South Carolina has elevated a flag of an enemy nation above that of the US. If they are in session, it's treason.
 
pgwenthold said:
Section 7(c) of the US Flag Code

www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf

says that



In this case, the legislature of South Carolina has elevated a flag of an enemy nation above that of the US. If they are in session, it's treason.
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In the picture that accompanied the gawker article, it shows the state and national flags flying atop the rotunda, while the Confederate Battle Flag is on a pole on the ground, so there's no violation of the flag code there. The CBF is well below the level of the US flag. (And, to repeat, it isn't technically the flag of an enemy nation, but of an enemy army. The national flag of the CSA was a different flag.)

However, the clause of the flag code in question is why flags other than the US flag are typically lowered to half staff when the US flag is lowered. It's not that they are required to go to half staff, but they are required to be lowered to at least the level of the US flag. In this case, though, it doesn't look like it would be required.

Interestingly enough, the gawker article also carries a picture of the American and South Carolina flags flying at full staff. Presumably it's just a file photo, but I think it takes away a bit of the power of the photo.


For what it's worth, I want to be sure it's understood that I think it's pretty silly to fly the confederate battle flag at a governmental location anyway, but if you did, there's no real reason it ought to be flown at half staff, unless it had to be lowered to place it below the US flag.
 
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Please, I lived in Georgia for 4 years before the Olympics. Every single day there were calls to take the huge confederate symbol off the state flag. Nobody I knew (political science graduates at UGA and law students at Emory) thought Georgia would actually host the world under a confederate flag.

Yeah, they did.

They didn't change the flag until 5 year after the Olympics (and they retained some symbol of the confederacy until 2003).
 
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South Carolina was like Confederacy central. It will be the last place to abandon those roots.
 
casebro said:
Who died?
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Nine people were killed in a mass shooting in Charleston, South Carolina.

I don't follow news so I didn't know until I was halfway through this thread. I do wish thread starters would not assume that everyone is up-to-date on what is going on. A couple of extra lines of background information goes a long way to helping everyone understand what is being discussed and why.

ETA
that being said. I think if I lived there I would be tempted to shoot the flag with paintballs.

MORE ETA
Omg! I need a paintball drone. That would be awesome!
 
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It is fascinating how these things get spun.

The flag isn't really part of the statehouse as such. That's why there are no other flags near it. It isn't part of a display of flags or set of flagpoles or anything. For the gawker article, I was trying to picture where it was, because the camera angle was not straight on.

Apparently, there is a confederate soldier's memorial in front of the SC stItatehouse. Part of that memorial is a confederate battle flag.

It would make no sense to lower that flag as a sign of mourning.
 
Meadmaker said:
It is fascinating how these things get spun.

The flag isn't really part of the statehouse as such. That's why there are no other flags near it. It isn't part of a display of flags or set of flagpoles or anything. For the gawker article, I was trying to picture where it was, because the camera angle was not straight on.

Apparently, there is a confederate soldier's memorial in front of the SC stItatehouse. Part of that memorial is a confederate battle flag.

It would make no sense to lower that flag as a sign of mourning.
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Nice making excuses for the flying of a racist flag.
 
dudalb said:
Nice making excuses for the flying of a racist flag.
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No, he's explaining why the flag is not lowered. Rather than succumbing to emotion and joining the outrage bandwagon that rolls through this site, he is being a skeptic.
 
mgidm86 said:
Rather than succumbing to emotion and joining the outrage bandwagon that rolls through this site, he is being a skeptic.
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Agreed. But they should still take down that flag - and never fly it again - on any public property where equal rights are supposed to be guaranteed under the law. Skeptical flag-flying pedantry aside, it'd just be the right thing to do.
 
Why fly the flag at all? It's like flying a Swastika at a German War memorial.
 
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