Dennis Hastert indicted.

[TragicMonkey]

Actually, much like work place environs where a boss can be guilty of sexual assault even if the employee is of legal consent age, teachers can be charged and convicted due to the level of control they have over the relationship and the lives of those who are forced to attend school in order to graduate. Many states have passed such laws, I'm unsure of the state laws with specific regard to the Hastert case.

for instance: Section 5-14-125(a)(6) of the Arkansas Code now provides that

What a messy law! This bit: "and uses his or her position of trust or authority over the victim to engage in sexual contact" is critical. It leaves open the possibility that the "culprit" is in the "position of trust or authority" but didn't use that position to engage in sex. The prosecution would have to prove that the teacher used his position, not that he merely occupied that position.

These affairs are muddy water indeed when even laws trying to stop them only make things murkier instead of clarifying them!

 

[12AX7]

do you think the problem is that he is gay or that he is a politician?

According to you the problem was him talking to the FBI without a lawyer.

Oh c'mon, Denny went duggar on some young wrestler and has been paying him blackmail for 30 years.

Don't ever talk to the FBI without a lawyer.

Neither. It's that he's a lying hypocritical scumbag.

This.

But, that he's another "family values/morals/Christian/anti-gay" conservative Republican is just shocking.

Stunned, I tell you.

 

[Minoosh]

It'll be funny to see what different people think the actual bad part about this is.

I think one of the suspicious parts is that he apparently had $3.5 million to play with. How do our public servants amass that kind of cash?

I never liked wrestling, and even less so when I found it was a risk factor for catching genital herpes. All by itself.

 

[Trakar]

Right i forgot: this is America and American youth are so incredibly mentally handicapped that even having sex at the age of 17 year old is comparable to being raped as an infant in terms of how much harm it causes.

While I am not aware of U.S. legal authorities prosecuting cases where the victim was not a willing participant (if not an active complainant) in the prosecution, it is reasonable that if the prosecutors feel that the abuse of position is flagrant enough to be an endangerment to other present or future students that they could, would, and would seek prosecution and conviction.
The only case I know of (but this isn't something I've done a lot of research on) where this has been successfully applied was where a Connecticut English teacher initiated a sexual relationship with an 18yo student and the threatened to fail him in her English class if he broke up with her. There was the complication that she was also giving both him and a much younger male student marijuana and whom she may have been grooming to replace her current lover once he graduated.

There are also many similar laws structured to enable prosecution of religious officials who use their position over young adult church members to force their attentions upon, due to the personal, social and community power and authority they have over members of their church.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

do you think the problem is that he is gay or that he is a politician?

Neither. The problem is he's a big fat hypocrite.

 

[steve s]

I think one of the suspicious parts is that he apparently had $3.5 million to play with. How do our public servants amass that kind of cash?

I read one article that said that when he entered office, his net worth was less than $300,000. When he left office he was worth more than $4 million. Nice job if you can get it.

Steve S

 

[beren]

. There was the complication that she was also giving both him and a much younger male student marijuana and whom she may have been grooming to replace her current lover once he graduated.
.

She was grooming the marijuana to replace her lover? Weird.











Sorry, but she was an English teacher, so it seemed appropriate.

 

[Aepervius]

Pretty sure it's not "perfectly legal and consensual" for a high school coach to "boink" one of his team members.

In fact even in many country of europe it would be illegal as there is a possible power play here.

Shade of sandusky ?

 

[Aepervius]

Right i forgot: this is America and American youth are so incredibly mentally handicapped that even having sex at the age of 17 year old is comparable to being raped as an infant in terms of how much harm it causes.

Even in europe in many country the age of consent is lower than legal age , baring a power relationship like teacher/puppil.

Example denmark, where a teacher cannot have sex with their under 18 pupil EVEN if the age of consent is 15. There are similar exception as far as I know in Sweden, germany , France, those bastion of sexual repression as we all know.

To make it clear :
A teacher say 50 year old can have sex with a 15 year old IF it is not his puppil, but cannot have sex with a 17 year old 11 month puppil in his class. That is how I read it.

 

[Trakar]

She was grooming the marijuana to replace her lover? Weird.

Sorry, but she was an English teacher, so it seemed appropriate.

LOL

 

[Elf Grinder 3000]

Even in europe in many country the age of consent is lower than legal age , baring a power relationship like teacher/puppil.

Example denmark, where a teacher cannot have sex with their under 18 pupil EVEN if the age of consent is 15. There are similar exception as far as I know in Sweden, germany , France, those bastion of sexual repression as we all know.

To make it clear :
A teacher say 50 year old can have sex with a 15 year old IF it is not his puppil, but cannot have sex with a 17 year old 11 month puppil in his class. That is how I read it.

The interesting point is Mr Hastert has not been charged with a sexual relationship between Teacher Student. He was charged with structuring withdrawals from his bank and lying about it.

His actual crime is not something that should even be prosecuted in a free country.

This is 1984 tactics by the government

They do the same thing with Mom and Pop businesses that withdraw money and get charged. They can't have access to their own money and are forced to prove that they committed no crime. Its asset forfeiture and its not right.

 

[Trakar]

The interesting point is Mr Hastert has not been charged with a sexual relationship between Teacher Student.

only because the statute of limitations on such has expired.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The interesting point is Mr Hastert has not been charged with a sexual relationship between Teacher Student. He was charged with structuring withdrawals from his bank and lying about it.

His actual crime is not something that should even be prosecuted in a free country.

This is 1984 tactics by the government

They do the same thing with Mom and Pop businesses that withdraw money and get charged. They can't have access to their own money and are forced to prove that they committed no crime. Its asset forfeiture and its not right.

Why are you defending this guy? Clearly he did something bad enough he was willing to pay millions to keep it from coming to light. And there's evidence suggesting on a more probable basis than not, it was something perverse, sex with an underage boy, sex with a student, sex or touching with more than one underage boy/student — take your pick. All of the options are disgusting.

 

[shemp]

Why are you defending this guy? Clearly he did something bad enough he was willing to pay millions to keep it from coming to light. And there's evidence suggesting on a more probable basis than not, it was something perverse, sex with an underage boy, sex with a student, sex or touching with more than one underage boy/student — take your pick. All of the options are disgusting.

This is probably the one and only time I'm going to agree with Elf Grinder. His point (which you seem to have missed) is that, regardless of anything else going on here, THE GODDAMN U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REQUIRE YOU TO REPORT YOUR BANK WITHDRAWALS. On this point alone, the law is an ass.

 

[Trakar]

This is probably the one and only time I'm going to agree with Elf Grinder. His point (which you seem to have missed) is that, regardless of anything else going on here, THE GODDAMN U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REQUIRE YOU TO REPORT YOUR BANK WITHDRAWALS. On this point alone, the law is an ass.

Another perversity holdover from the WOD. That said, regardless of how long ago Hastert's actual crime was committed, he should not be able to walk away from it, merely because it was kept secret for multiple decades. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the black mailer should be punished for his crime as well, but this doesn't excuse or negate Hastert's sexual assault of the student(s) he taught.

 

[BenBurch]

This is probably the one and only time I'm going to agree with Elf Grinder. His point (which you seem to have missed) is that, regardless of anything else going on here, THE GODDAMN U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REQUIRE YOU TO REPORT YOUR BANK WITHDRAWALS. On this point alone, the law is an ass.

However, it was a law he passed. Which has it's own special humor to it, don't you think?

If he had simply kept withdrawing at $50,000 a month rather than splitting the withdrawals into $10,000 increments to avoid the reporting requirements, he would only have to admit that he was giving it to somebody else to settle a private matter, and there would have been no criminal charges.

But he took an action to evade the law, a law he himself passed, and which he understood the consequences of, and then he lied to federal agents and as somebody who helped impeach Bill Clinton for lying under oath, he also knew he shouldn't be doing that, either.

 

[TragicMonkey]

This is probably the one and only time I'm going to agree with Elf Grinder. His point (which you seem to have missed) is that, regardless of anything else going on here, THE GODDAMN U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REQUIRE YOU TO REPORT YOUR BANK WITHDRAWALS. On this point alone, the law is an ass.

I agree---if the bank in question is not participating in FDIC. If you want to enjoy the protection of that government program, you have to play by government rules.

 

[12AX7]

He was charged with structuring withdrawals from his bank and lying about it.

His actual crime is not something that should even be prosecuted in a free country.

This is 1984 tactics by the government

If, in an imaginary world, Hillary Clinton were being charged with the same thing, I'm sure you'd feel the same way.

 

[12AX7]

They do the same thing with Mom and Pop businesses that withdraw money and get charged. They can't have access to their own money and are forced to prove that they committed no crime.

Examples? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just wondered of you had any instances recently in mind.

I ask because I started a thread recently about a young liberal black man who was wronged this way. I don't recall you commenting about how Orwellian his treatment was.

I'm sure you just missed the thread.

Its asset forfeiture and its not right.

I agree with that. True asset forfeiture is wrong.

 

[shemp]

Another perversity holdover from the WOD. That said, regardless of how long ago Hastert's actual crime was committed, he should not be able to walk away from it, merely because it was kept secret for multiple decades. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the black mailer should be punished for his crime as well, but this doesn't excuse or negate Hastert's sexual assault of the student(s) he taught.

I agree and I never said he should get away with molesting students. However, he may get away with it due to statutes of limitations.