Vixen
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And have to watch Raf's smirking countenance and Amanda's scarcely veiled grin?
Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito
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And have to watch Raf's smirking countenance and Amanda's scarcely veiled grin?
Grinder
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Why do you bother to write stuff like that?
Why would anyone pay him Lira? Where was it reported?
This would be a good time to concede that Rudi had a phone access and that CT didn't report the break in to Nappy.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Via a translator. In England, as I suspect in all countries, official (legal) documents have to be in the official language. In Elizabethan England, we had the Star Chambers, with everything, including names, translated into Latin. It's doubtful the common people understood a word, though.
Bill Williams
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The part i recall offhand about the Sarah Burns documentary is that the forensics at the scene supported only one attacker. The beaten path to where the woman was found was a narrow depression in the grass leading skeptics to say that if five had dragged her away, they must have gone in single-file.
And as one of the men observed, it was no matter that the forensics pointed away from the five. At trial the prosecution case was a predictable mess, but the prosecution wouldend by replaying a taped confession. It was as if the accused himself was telling the court, "despite this nonsensical case, I did it." He said he was a witness against himself, and that trumped the nonsensical case.
Kauffer
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Never mind translator, what about lawyer?
Grinder
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What a backwards place. We have official documents in all sorts of languages.
I don't consider a statement an official document and it should either be in English or she should have a non-police translator. Of course, she should have had an attorney before signing.
Vixen
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What languages would they be, Grinder? I'd be interested to know.
Grinder
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NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE AVAILABLE ON SEATTLE.GOV
Office of Immigrant and Refugee Affairs
More translation services, business training opportunities and community-based support.
A Resident's Guide to the City of Seattle's Budget Process
西雅圖市預算流程 - 市民指南
시애틀 시 주민을 위한 - 예산 절차 안내서
TILMAAMAHA DEGGANE EE HANNAANKA MIISAANIYADDA MAGAALADA SEATTLE
GUÍA DEL RESIDENTE SOBRE EL PROCESO PRESUPUESTARIO DE LA CIUDAD DE SEATTLE
ISANG GABAY PARA SA MGA MAMAMAYAN UKOL SA PROSESO NG BUDGET NG LUNGSOD NG SEATTLE
CẨM NANG HƯỚNG DẪN CƯ DÂN VỀ - TIẾN TRÌNH THIẾT LẬP NGÂN SÁCH CỦA THÀNH PHỐ SEATTLE
TRANSLATED LANGUAGE PAGES
Amharic
Arabic / Aribiyya / عربية
Cambodian / Khmer
Chinese / 中文
Chinese (Simplified) / 中文（简体）
Farsi / Persian / فارسی
French / Français
German / Deutsch
Hindi
Hungarian / Magyar
Indonesian / Bahasa Indonesia
Italian / Italiano
Japanese / Nihongo / 日本語
Korean
Lao / Laotian / Phaasaa Laao
Malay / Bahasa Melayu / بهاس ملايو
Oromo / Oromiffa
Portuguese / Português
Punjabi
Romanian
Russian / русский язык
Samoan
Somali / af Soomaali
Spanish / Español
Tagalog
Thai / ภาษาไทย / phasa thai
Tigrigna
Ukranian
Urdu / اردو
Vietnamese / Tiếng Việt
Bill Williams
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I wish Machiavelli was back here defending Anna Donnino, the police "translator".
The description "translator" needs to be put into quotes, because of Donnino's admitted actions that night, inserting herself into the proceedings with what were, in my view, disastrous results.
The spin Machiavelli put on this intervention was to first make some undecipherable distinction between a translator and an interpreter. All translators I know are fully aware of the issues inherent in translating - one said that translating was ALWAYS a task of interpreting. Nuance of meaning, culture, and idiom are minefields of potential misunderstanding. (When Khrushchev told the U.S., "we will bury you," the Americans took it to mean a death threat. Apparently in Russian it is a euphemism for, "we will outlast you.")
Yet Machiavelli went further. In response to Donnino's own claim that she was a mediator (WTF!), Mach went further. She said she often mediated between her client and a perp; which I always thought was her way of describing what interpreters do, rather than simple translation. Yet mediation, for me, often includes suggestions as to what one of the parties might do next in response to a line of dialogue.....
..... yet Machiavelli called her a diplomat. I'll leave it to interested people to scroll back as to what the heck that meant, but it sounded to me like being overtly involved in influencing the outcome.
Given that Machiavelli has by far offered the most detailed account of what Donnino was supposed to have been about that night - from a guilter perspective - it's amazing there's ever been any controversy about her.
Knox needed an interpreter that night. Even more so, the police needed one - to tell them what "see you later" meant as an idiom in English. Donnino failed both sides - failed as an interpreter, and as a diplomat.
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acbytesla
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Your favorite writer wrote that... I do think Rudy had a phone...not a phone that he bought...but a phone. We know he didn't buy it because he said he didn't buy it. I already said this.
Vixen
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Don't wriggle out of the fact Amanda voluntarily and of her own volition, made a claim Patrick did it and she was there witnessing Mez' screams.
The police are not clairvoyant. When they interviewed *all* of the house mates and Mez' friends, they're not to know Amanda was going to blurt out a false accusation.
Of course they are going to record it. In fact, Amanda followed it up with a "gift" statement in her own hand saying she stood by "seeing Patrick in blurry flashing images."
We all have to take responsibility for our own actions.
Bill Williams
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What!? No Chinook translation services? I'm shocked!
Vixen
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I see. So court documents, such as witness statements and judgments, or birth and marriage certificates, representations to congress, etc., can be in any of the above languages?
Bill Williams
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The issue is not and never has been the "voluntary" nature of Amanda's words at interrogation. The issue is and always has been their spontaneity.
Look at how the second memoriale is worded: it simply could not have been composed by Amanda Knox - it is in sophisticated, Italian legalese, leading with the phrase, "I spontaneously declare...." There was someone there coaching Amanda on how to write a proper Italian document in the needed Italian legalese.
It is important to understand what was at issue, legally, before commenting.
Look at how the second memoriale is worded: it simply could not have been composed by Amanda Knox - it is in sophisticated, Italian legalese, leading with the phrase, "I spontaneously declare...." There was someone there coaching Amanda on how to write a proper Italian document in the needed Italian legalese.
It is important to understand what was at issue, legally, before commenting.
Grinder
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The critical part is he had phone access which you had said he didn't. It doesn't matter whether he bought it or it was fronted to him to fence. Btw, he had phone access besides the one phone in Milan.
No one ever believed he bought in Milan. He brought it from Perugia where he was involved with stealing it or he was assigned the job of selling it in Milan.
Oh and the CT story?
carbonjam72
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Those really only exist in your mind. Everyone involved has suffered a tragedy.
I can't tell what you really believe, or if you only post to incite.
It is odd though to expect that type of behavior from Amanda and Raf, yet still remain undecided as to guilt, as you have claimed so up-throd.
Grinder
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We are only concerned with statements in this discussion. I gave you the Seattle info on how an advanced society handles language. Witnesses are provided with non-police translators both before and during court testimony. We do not ask people to sign statements in English if they are not fluent in it. The statement would then be translated for the court.
Dan O.
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Dan O.
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Not so Grinder. The origin of a fire is often the least damaged because the fuel is reduced in that area before the fire gets to its hottest stage.
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