Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

John Kercher was a prime mover. Five Kerchers actively, in filed court documents, appealed the 2011 acquittal , joined the prosecution, before reading the impeccable Hellman logic. Disgraceful. I will post the full document again if you wish, and never again will you contend Kercher had nothing to do with the prosecution..

They clearly had a legal right to do so.

 

[Bill Williams]

They are not "exonerated". We already established that technical legal fact.

Sorry, you are wrong. The one page summary from the March 2015 exoneration said they did not commit the act.

If you have a citation which indicates otherwise, now's the time.

 

[Bill Williams]

Yeah, well, we have to ask why Raf got his defense team to demand the police "search the bushes for the murder weapon", and, sure enough, in the undergrowth was a knife and some bloody tissues.

Sceptics might wonder whether this was part of the staged scene. Rudy supposedly hiding in the same bushes, with his burglar's swag bag, burglar's mask, striped prison top and stolen train emergency hammer, waiting to discover whether the boulder he's just thrown 10' has caused anyone to stir inside the house.

Ri-ight.

This makes no sense. Raf's defence needs to do nothing esp. when nothing about Exhibit 36 suggested it was the murder weapon.

That's what was wrong with the wrongful prosecution of this. Mignini made an unfounded assertion and expected the defence to prove him wrong.

It is actually the other way around.

 

[Bill Williams]

The Kerchers have no obligation to anyone, and if they want to lie low and deal with this in private that's entirely their right. They were led astray by bad police work and I can completely see why they might not have been able to seek information for themselves - I think I would find it all very, very painful to confront.

Agreed.

 

[Numbers]

It's all laid out systematically in Sarah Burns documentary.

I saw the documentary video and read her book. I missed or don't recall the part where there is evidence that the police and prosecutor had objective evidence (not coerced and inconsistent confessions) that these 5 teens had committed the crime. I am aware that these teens, and others, were in some part of Central Park possibly around the time of the assault and rape of the jogger in possibly a different part of the park.

 

[Vixen]

That is a construction I find absurd. They actively prosecuted against the evidence, blinded by the lure of the lira.

The Kercher family are decent, honest, unassuming and clean living people who could not even afford the cost of travelling to the appeal hearing. Their attorney had to come from the pro-bono coffers of the prosecution service.

 

[Vixen]

Sorry, you are wrong. The one page summary from the March 2015 exoneration said they did not commit the act.

If you have a citation which indicates otherwise, now's the time.

They quoted Section 530 para 2, which is "insufficient evidence", and, indeed, is not within their jurisdiction.

 

[Vixen]

This makes no sense. Raf's defence needs to do nothing esp. when nothing about Exhibit 36 suggested it was the murder weapon.

That's what was wrong with the wrongful prosecution of this. Mignini made an unfounded assertion and expected the defence to prove him wrong.

It is actually the other way around.

No, that is an issue for the court.

 

[carbonjam72]

Why would pot and sex be in the "cons" column anyway?

Have you not seen "Reefer Madness"???

 

[Numbers]

They quoted Section 530 para 2, which is "insufficient evidence", and, indeed, is not within their jurisdiction.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about the jurisdiction or authority of the CSC under the Italian code of criminal procedure. There is some generality to this misunderstanding that the CSC is not allowed to consider an appeal related to defects in the lower court's evaluation of evidence. (Of course, in evaluating a lower court's evaluation of evidence, the CSC should follow and logically apply Italian law and Constitution, including ECHR case-law. This was not done by the Chieffi CSC panel.)

However, CPP Article 606 paragraph 1e allows the CSC to hear appeals on the basis that the grounds of the judgment are lacking, contradictory or manifestly illogical. CPP Article 620 paragraph 1l allows the CSC to deliver a judgment of annulment without referral "in any other case in which the Court of Cassation believes the referral is superfluous...." Thus, the CSC may acquit, but apparently not convict, without referring a case back to a lower court.

ETA: There may also be a misunderstanding about the terminology "insufficient evidence". For all actually innocent persons, it is to be expected that there would be "insufficient evidence" of guilt. There was, of course, never any reliable evidence of guilt against Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollicito. The prosecution case was merely a hoax. There is a small group of "guilters" some of whom even now, after the final acquittal of Knox and Sollecito by the CSC, attempt to continue this hoax.

 

[acbytesla]

It would not be fair or proper for me to be drawn on that question.

ETA However, it is suspicious Amanda had such a detailed knowledge of the murder.

But of course she didn't have detailed knowledge of the murder Ooooops.

 

[Grinder]

DNA evidence showed Mez DNA on the blade of the murder weapon and Amanda's on the hilt. Witness Kokomani, in addition, reported being threatened by a drug-crazed Amanda on the murder night, brandishing a large knife.

Amanda showed great glee and excitement after his daughter's murder; said, "**** happens!", and to this day, cannot bring herself to say his daughter's name.

Who should apologise to whom?

You like early reporting, right? You as I believe there is value in those early days, right?

Please explain how the "pen knife" they were calling the murder weapon morphed into a larger kitchen knife?

By Malcolm Moore in Perugia and Gary Cleland 12:01AM GMT 05 Nov 2007

Luca Lalli, a pathologist who carried out a post-mortem examination, said Miss Kercher was killed with a penknife.
​

 

[carbonjam72]

Really? John Kercher should meet his dear daughter's alleged murderer?
What an offensive proposition.

Yes, John Kercher should meet with both Amanda and Raffaele, once he realizes they had nothing to do with his daughter's tragic murder.

If he doesn't come to that realization in his lifetime, than one hopes his children will have the stamina, honesty and integrity to do so.

 

[Grinder]

The police will often transcribe the statement from the verbal. Read it back and then get it signed, including a proviso, "I understand I can change or add to this statement at any time."

You don't agree with this standard procedure?

Don't you think the police should only ask a person to sign a statement in a language they are fluent in?

 

[acbytesla]

Not that rare, there are plenty of them (Tracey Andrews, Joanna Dehanney, Aileen Wuornos, etc). Here in England, we had Mary Bell, who, aged 11, accompanied by her friend 13-year old Norma Bell, deemed of subnormal intelligence, throttled to death three-year old Martin Brown and three-year old Brian Howe, as well as mutilating the latter's groin region and carving her initial "M" with a razor on his stomach. He was found covered in grass and some wild purple flowers (speedwell?).

When questioned by police, Mary finally claimed she'd seen a little boy in the street carrying some bent scissors and "covered in grass and little purple flowers".

She then became prime suspect. Compare and contrast Amanda's detailed claim of how "Patrick had sex with Mez and killed her, whilst I covered my ears as she screamed".

Mary was a sociopath due to her horrendous early childhood, with her mother repeatedly trying to kill her or give her away (feeding her pills, pushing her out a window, giving her to a childless woman, etc) and submitting her daughter, as a common prostitute, to paedophiles whilst a toddler.

If Amanda killed Mez, then I would feel fairly confident there is childhood abuse there in the background, as was the case with the James Bulger child killers, Venables and Thompson.

You guys crack me up. There is very little that is similar between Amanda Knox and the female killers you mention. Also the relationships with their supposed accomplices are of course dramatically different in the sense thos killers had known each them for years. In contrast Knox had known Raffaele for a week and while she met Rudy 2 weeks before, there is nothing that indicates that they even shared a ten minute conversation with each other.

Also, have you ever read the background information on Aileen Wuornos and Joanna Dennehy? Do you really think they compare to Amanda Knox?

 

[carbonjam72]

Why is she making death threats to Mr Kercher at all?

Can you explain the meaning of this post?

 

[Kauffer]

The Kercher family are decent, honest, unassuming and clean living people who could not even afford the cost of travelling to the appeal hearing. Their attorney had to come from the pro-bono coffers of the prosecution service.

Well, Meredith was sleeping with her dope growing boyfriend, smoking his weed and drinking it up large in town. But, I guess she was a good girl and Amanda was a wrong un eh?

You have evidence Maresca was working pro bono? He wasn't even their only attorney. What was the Meredith Kercher fund all about then?

 

[Numbers]

The police will often transcribe the statement from the verbal. Read it back and then get it signed, including a proviso, "I understand I can change or add to this statement at any time."

You don't agree with this standard procedure?

Don't you think the police should only ask a person to sign a statement in a language they are fluent in?

And Vixen, don't you think that the Italian police should follow Italian law, which requires them to stop questioning a person not an accused or a suspect as soon as that person makes an incriminating statement, warn her that following such statement(s) an investigation against her may be launched, and advise her to appoint an attorney? Such statements shall not be used against the person who has made them. (Italian CPP Article 63, para. 1). If the person should have been heard as an accused or a suspect from the beginning, her statements shall not be used (CPP Art. 63, para. 2).

If a person is questioned as an accused or a suspect, she must be warned that her statements may be used against her, and that her statements about someone else may subject her to the obligations of a witness (including, apparently, potential charges of calunnia), she must be provided with a lawyer, and she must be told she has the right to remain silent. It any of these cautions are not given, the statements of the person may not be used (CPP Art. 64, para. 1 through 3-bis).

Why should one consider it acceptable for the Italian judicial system to violate Italian law, and the ECHR case-law, to wrongfully convict someone? Or even to arrest, detain in prison, and try someone on the basis of violations of Italian law by Italian police and prosecutors?

 

[carbonjam72]

At least with time...

The Kerchers have no obligation to anyone, and if they want to lie low and deal with this in private that's entirely their right. They were led astray by bad police work and I can completely see why they might not have been able to seek information for themselves - I think I would find it all very, very painful to confront.

John Kercher wrote a book that reads like a guilter hate site. He has done anything but "lay low". Lyle Kercher has been talking about just getting a verdict and putting the case behind them so they can grieve. They have all complained that Amanda "became a minor celebrity" at the expense of Meredith, which is absurd to the point of being truly sad.

The Kerchers have been anything but silent.

Amanda and Raffaele have been subjected to a terrible miscarriage of justice, and the Kerchers bear some responsibility for statements they have made at the least, if not the statements and legitimate inquiry they should have been pushing for.

I feel great sympathy for the Kercher's as the victim's family. But their grief does not entitle them to stand by silently while two innocent people and their families are made to suffer unjustly in the court of public opinion. They should either state their continued belief in guilt, and explain why, or admit a mistake was made and call off the lunatics on the web who claim to be speaking on their behalf.

At a minimum, the Kerchers could make it clear that none of the idiots harassing Amanda and Raf are "doing it for Meredith", or "standing up for the Kerchers". They could do that, even if they felt they weren't sure about amanda and Raf's guilt - unless they actually intend to encourage that type of behavior.
With all due respect, silence now is not an option, because they have been anything but silent in the past. John Kercher's statements have been appalling ("why is she still running around loose?", after Nencini and awaiting ISC appeal.)

Nothing will likely bring relief for the Kerchers, but the truth is the only thing can se that might, at least with time.

 

[acbytesla]

]DNA evidence showed Mez DNA on the blade of the murder weapon and Amanda's on the hilt.[/HILITE] Witness Kokomani, in addition, reported being threatened by a drug-crazed Amanda on the murder night, brandishing a large knife./QUOTE]

No, in fact, there is no evidence that should make anyone believe that Raffaele's cooking knife was the murder weapon. In fact it is absurd idea. But of course you knew that.

Kokamani, who covered his face during his testimony said he met Knox with her uncle and Sollecito in early August. She WASN'T even in Perugia in August, doesn't have an uncle and didn't meet Raffaele until October. He also described her with large gaps in her teeth. (Of course, Amanda doesn't have gaps in her teeth)

Reports are that Kokomani was paid 100 thousand Euros to tell his tale but that has never been confirmed.