Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[RoseMontague]

"Aqualung my friend
Don't start away uneasy
You poor old sod
You see it's only me." Jethro Tull

This verse was on my mind when I half-jokingly described Mr. Owen as a sod. So far I have provided two examples of Owen's errors. These alone lessen his credibility as a reporter.

If you look for an article of his called All-American sweetheart who plunged into world of drink, drugs and easy sex you will see his hatchet job, yellow journalism agenda is clear.

 

[Vixen]

If you look for an article of his called All-American sweetheart who plunged into world of drink, drugs and easy sex you will see his hatchet job, yellow journalism agenda is clear.

Chris Ayres is the main byline.

So you do read the "rag", after all.

 

[RoseMontague]

So what are those two huge bottles of ACE bleach under Raf's sink, as starring in the police video RVBW(?) put up.

His housekeeper testified she did not buy it.

The testimony of the nice detective that went out to investigate this showed that those were from a batch sold prior to October, not to mention the store had no bleach receipts in the records for that day and none of the employees remembered selling it to AK or RS, in fact they didn't even see them the days following the murder, which is what Quint told the nice detective as well.

 

[RoseMontague]

Chris Ayres is the main byline.

So you do read the "rag", after all.

I'm going through them...

http://journalisted.com/richard-owen?allarticles=yes

 

[Vixen]

The testimony of the nice detective that went out to investigate this showed that those were from a batch sold prior to October, not to mention the store had no bleach receipts in the records for that day and none of the employees remembered selling it to AK or RS, in fact they didn't even see them the days following the murder, which is what Quint told the nice detective as well.

I watched the video, and, like the police, it seems, I, too, stopped in my tracks at the ACE bottles. They looked brand spanking new and appeared to have collected condensation around the bottom of the label, as if recently damp.

What were those receipt close ups?

Of course, many corner shops don't do itemised receipts.

 

[LondonJohn]

Chris Ayres is the main byline.

So you do read the "rag", after all.

Actually no: Richard Owen is the first (and thus main) byline on that piece.

http://journalisted.com/article/3gyg

 

[Chris_Halkides]

yellow journalism that paved the way for Follain

If you look for an article of his called All-American sweetheart who plunged into world of drink, drugs and easy sex you will see his hatchet job, yellow journalism agenda is clear.

"But something happened to her in those three months, according to people within the university community of the Umbrian hill town. At some point, apparently quite early on in her stay, she lost control. In the town’s seedier bars, she soon became known as someone who was capable of intense jealousy and rage. She dedicated her free time to the drink, drugs and easy sex of Perugia’s nightlife.

"As she contemplates spending up to a year in an Italian jail awaiting charges — she was detained yesterday along with her Italian boyfriend, Raffaelle Sollecito, 24, and Diya “Patrick” Lumumba, 38 — those who knew her spoke out. One acquaintance said that Ms Knox had not been corrupted by any particular person because she was “already up for it”. She had plunged fresh from Seattle into a world of vodka, marijuana and free-and-easy sex. According to Mr Sollecito’s statement to police, she went to bed with him the day they met and, according to leaked testimony, she was known to pick up men in the bars and internet cafés. Ms Knox is thought to have “befriended” at least one North African man." link

See also this link for the whole article. "According to prison sources, she is calm and controlled, refusing to answer questions but writing page after page of her version of events that fateful night — the latest in a line of changing stories full of inconsistencies and contradictions."

I take back "pitiable, befuddled old sod" and even "two bit lying hack" is generous.

 

[Vixen]

I'm going through them...

http://journalisted.com/richard-owen?allarticles=yes

He's a better reporter than John Follain. He resisted the temptation to malign any of the defendants.

 

[LondonJohn]

I watched the video, and, like the police, it seems, I, too, stopped in my tracks at the ACE bottles. They looked brand spanking new and appeared to have collected condensation around the bottom of the label, as if recently damp.

What were those receipt close ups?

Of course, many corner shops don't do itemised receipts.

Hahaha "they looked....", "they appeared"........

Arguments from personal credulity/incredulity really don't cut it, unfortunately. Especially when they're based on a a grainy, poorly-lit camcorder video.

The receipt close-ups were of pizza receipts. Fail.

Quintavalle's Conad store did itemised receipts (and the till would have retained a copy of all transactions.

Next?

 

[Vixen]

Actually no: Richard Owen is the first (and thus main) byline on that piece.

http://journalisted.com/article/3gyg

Actually, from the TIMES itself:


All-American sweetheart who plunged into world of drink, drugs and easy sex
Chris Ayres and Richard Owen
The TimesPublished: 10 November 2007US & Americas
In her home town of Seattle, Amanda Knox was described as a wholesome young woman — the perfect date for a high-school prom. Her friends are trying to comprehend how she could have become an alleged sexual deviant capable of a role in the murder of the British student Meredith Kercher

 

[Dan O.]

You crack me up Grinder. Very few people deliberately leave their valuables or homes/businesses unsecured. But many people are sloppy, lazy and just make mistakes. It happens all the time in Seattle. Talk to a cop and then get back to me.

I did that several years ago. One night when I was the last to leave I discovered that the main doors with the fancy new electronic locks would not lock. I called the federal protective service that managed security and they had no clue what to do. They finally said just leave it.

I don't think we've heard the full story about the pasta cooking school squatter. Rudy was caught in a place he was not supposed to be with equipment he was. It supposed to have and he was just let go. Did the lawyers ever get their phone and laptop back?

 

[RoseMontague]

Actually, from the TIMES itself:


All-American sweetheart who plunged into world of drink, drugs and easy sex
Chris Ayres and Richard Owen
The TimesPublished: 10 November 2007US & Americas
In her home town of Seattle, Amanda Knox was described as a wholesome young woman — the perfect date for a high-school prom. Her friends are trying to comprehend how she could have become an alleged sexual deviant capable of a role in the murder of the British student Meredith Kercher

His name is on the article and it is a slanderous hatchet job, plain and simple.

 

[Vixen]

"But something happened to her in those three months, according to people within the university community of the Umbrian hill town. At some point, apparently quite early on in her stay, she lost control. In the town’s seedier bars, she soon became known as someone who was capable of intense jealousy and rage. She dedicated her free time to the drink, drugs and easy sex of Perugia’s nightlife.

"As she contemplates spending up to a year in an Italian jail awaiting charges — she was detained yesterday along with her Italian boyfriend, Raffaelle Sollecito, 24, and Diya “Patrick” Lumumba, 38 — those who knew her spoke out. One acquaintance said that Ms Knox had not been corrupted by any particular person because she was “already up for it”. She had plunged fresh from Seattle into a world of vodka, marijuana and free-and-easy sex. According to Mr Sollecito’s statement to police, she went to bed with him the day they met and, according to leaked testimony, she was known to pick up men in the bars and internet cafés. Ms Knox is thought to have “befriended” at least one North African man." link

See also this link for the whole article. "According to prison sources, she is calm and controlled, refusing to answer questions but writing page after page of her version of events that fateful night — the latest in a line of changing stories full of inconsistencies and contradictions."

I take back "pitiable, befuddled old sod" and even "two bit lying hack" is generous.

Which bit is a lie?

 

[davefoc]

I had a thought that the thread might focus on the single issue of the bleach receipts for a bit.

Vixen seems to be under the impression that receipts exist showing the purchase of bleach by Sollecito and/or Knox sometime within a day or so of Kercher's murder. He/She seems to base this on Richard Owen's reporting.

The claim has been made by several people is that no such receipts were found by the police. This claim is based on:
1. Photographs of the actual receipts found by the police. Link: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

2.The fact that receipts for the purchase of bleach would have been significant as evidenced by the fact that the prosecution put on the stand a witness to testify to the purchase of bleach who was not credible.

3. The fact that the receipts were not put into evidence in the trial despite the clear importance that the prosecution put on the idea that AK/RS had purchased bleach following the murder.

4. Information from an Italian news source, la repubblica, quoted by Methos:

English translation

While hunting the fourth man continues in strict confidentiality, the yellow of Perugia lost one of the pieces that in the last hours had seemed decisive: in the minutes on the search in the house of Raffaele Sollecito there are no receipts dated November 2, the day after the murder of British student Meredith Kercher. Of those two receipts he had spoken of as one of the clues to the heaviest load of the young man is in jail along with Amanda Knox and Patrick Diya Lumumba, a proof of purchase in a supermarket in Perugia two bottles of bleach used to any trace of the murder.

link to post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10667540#post10667540

Some of these claims are easily falsifiable if evidence to their false nature exists. Among the possibilities Vixen could point to places in the court record where information about the bleach receipts was entered as evidence, photographs of the receipts showing the purchase of the bleach on the dates in question, and any current articles by a reputable journalist claiming that the early stories about the bleach receipts were true.

I do not believe that this thread should move on until Vixen responds to the evidence that has been put forth on this issue. The thread bounces around all over the place without a resolution on any issue. This is an opportunity to change this. Vixen seems to believe he/she is correct on this issue. Let's give Vixen a chance to do some research and produce the evidence he/she believes is compelling on this point.

 

[Vixen]

His name is on the article and it is a slanderous hatchet job, plain and simple.

Chris Ayres in Seattle, who interviewed people who claimed to know Amanda, and Richard Owen in Perugia, getting the reaction from there.

Seems all right to me.

 

[RoseMontague]

He's a better reporter than John Follain.

Well, he's better than one at least.

He resisted the temptation to malign any of the defendants.

That would be funny if it were not so sad.

 

[RoseMontague]

Chris Ayres in Seattle, who interviewed people who claimed to know Amanda, and Richard Owen in Perugia, getting the reaction from there.

Seems all right to me.

That surprises me, not at all.

 

[Vixen]

I had a thought that the thread might focus on the single issue of the bleach receipts for a bit.

Vixen seems to be under the impression that receipts exist showing the purchase of bleach by Sollecito and/or Knox sometime within a day or so of Kercher's murder. He/She seems to base this on Richard Owen's reporting.

The claim has been made by several people is that no such receipts were found by the police. This claim is based on:
1. Photographs of the actual receipts found by the police. Link: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

2.The fact that receipts for the purchase of bleach would have been significant as evidenced by the fact that the prosecution put on the stand a witness to testify to the purchase of bleach who was not credible.

3. The fact that the receipts were not put into evidence in the trial despite the clear importance that the prosecution put on the idea that AK/RS had purchased bleach following the murder.

4. Information from an Italian news source, la repubblica, quoted by Methos:

English translation
link to post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10667540#post10667540

Some of these claims are easily falsifiable if evidence to their false nature exists. Among the possibilities Vixen could point to places in the court record where information about the bleach receipts was entered as evidence, photographs of the receipts showing the purchase of the bleach on the dates in question, and any current articles by a reputable journalist claiming that the early stories about the bleach receipts were true.

I do not believe that this thread should move on until Vixen responds to the evidence that has been put forth on this issue. The thread bounces around all over the place without a resolution on any issue. This is an opportunity to change this. Vixen seems to believe he/she is correct on this issue. Let's give Vixen a chance to do some research and produce the evidence he/she believes is compelling on this point.

There are 10,000 pages of court documents, most of them in Italian.

Look at it another way, would you keep a receipt that might incriminate you? Do people keep grocery receipts beyond a day or so?

 

[RoseMontague]

I had a thought that the thread might focus on the single issue of the bleach receipts for a bit.

Vixen seems to be under the impression that receipts exist showing the purchase of bleach by Sollecito and/or Knox sometime within a day or so of Kercher's murder. He/She seems to base this on Richard Owen's reporting.

The claim has been made by several people is that no such receipts were found by the police. This claim is based on:
1. Photographs of the actual receipts found by the police. Link: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

2.The fact that receipts for the purchase of bleach would have been significant as evidenced by the fact that the prosecution put on the stand a witness to testify to the purchase of bleach who was not credible.

3. The fact that the receipts were not put into evidence in the trial despite the clear importance that the prosecution put on the idea that AK/RS had purchased bleach following the murder.

4. Information from an Italian news source, la repubblica, quoted by Methos:

English translation
link to post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10667540#post10667540

Some of these claims are easily falsifiable if evidence to their false nature exists. Among the possibilities Vixen could point to places in the court record where information about the bleach receipts was entered as evidence, photographs of the receipts showing the purchase of the bleach on the dates in question, and any current articles by a reputable journalist claiming that the early stories about the bleach receipts were true.

I do not believe that this thread should move on until Vixen responds to the evidence that has been put forth on this issue. The thread bounces around all over the place without a resolution on any issue. This is an opportunity to change this. Vixen seems to believe he/she is correct on this issue. Let's give Vixen a chance to do some research and produce the evidence he/she believes is compelling on this point.

Might be a long wait. It does seem to bounce around from one discredited claim from Vixen to another even more ridiculous one. I wonder why that is.

 

[Wattson]

I had a thought that the thread might focus on the single issue of the bleach receipts for a bit.

Vixen seems to be under the impression that receipts exist showing the purchase of bleach by Sollecito and/or Knox sometime within a day or so of Kercher's murder. He/She seems to base this on Richard Owen's reporting.

The claim has been made by several people is that no such receipts were found by the police. This claim is based on:
1. Photographs of the actual receipts found by the police. Link: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

2.The fact that receipts for the purchase of bleach would have been significant as evidenced by the fact that the prosecution put on the stand a witness to testify to the purchase of bleach who was not credible.

3. The fact that the receipts were not put into evidence in the trial despite the clear importance that the prosecution put on the idea that AK/RS had purchased bleach following the murder.

4. Information from an Italian news source, la repubblica, quoted by Methos:

English translation
link to post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10667540#post10667540

Some of these claims are easily falsifiable if evidence to their false nature exists. Among the possibilities Vixen could point to places in the court record where information about the bleach receipts was entered as evidence, photographs of the receipts showing the purchase of the bleach on the dates in question, and any current articles by a reputable journalist claiming that the early stories about the bleach receipts were true.

I do not believe that this thread should move on until Vixen responds to the evidence that has been put forth on this issue. The thread bounces around all over the place without a resolution on any issue. This is an opportunity to change this. Vixen seems to believe he/she is correct on this issue. Let's give Vixen a chance to do some research and produce the evidence he/she believes is compelling on this point.[/QUOTE

I agree.