Marry Out, Stay Out!

[ponderingturtle]

How about giving them the land that was stolen?

Ranb

Then we need to figure out which times land was stolen vs times when the land was legally transferred between appropriate groups and individuals. And of course figuring out which tribe was the rightful owner in the first place vs stealing it from their neighbor.

 

[zooterkin]

Everything's gone to crap since the Angles mingled with the Saxons!

Non Angli sed angeli

 

[Border Reiver]

"Giving Back" lands to the Mohawk and some other Iroquois FN would be "challenging" as the lands they presently have were granted to them after the American Revolution as compensation for lands lost in what's now New York. The British Government settled the portion of the FN who had fought on the British side in the American Revolution. Those lands were clear of other FN since the Mohawks had helped drive them out to secure rights to the fur trade in the run up to the Seven Years War.

 

[Rum]

Given what white people have done to them I think they deserve a bit of leeway frankly.

 

[Border Reiver]

Because your ancestors were treated badly your bad behaviour is excusable?

 

[Rum]

Because your ancestors were treated badly your bad behaviour is excusable?

How about more or less wiped out?

 

[Border Reiver]

Again, how does something that happened to people other than yourself justify you being an ass?

 

[Rum]

It is called 'reparations' and it is recognised as a form of resolution internationally. The Australian government have, for example, apologised to the Australian aboriginals. Personally I don't see the point either. What is done is done. Even so if I was an American native I would be pretty happy to say **** you to white folks for what you did to us and to hell with it.

 

[Dcdrac]

The idea of genetic inheritance in human terms is as is meant by white supremacists and their ilk is unscientific cobblers.

 

[William Parcher]

The British Government settled the portion of the FN who had fought on the British side in the American Revolution. Those lands were clear of other FN since the Mohawks had helped drive them out to secure rights to the fur trade in the run up to the Seven Years War.

Will the Mohawks make reparations to the various other tribes that they screwed? Then what about those tribes - will they need to make reparations for tribes that they may have screwed?

Is that how fairness should be pursued?

Of course the history of humans in North America may include tribes screwing the hell out of each other going all the way back to the Bering land bridge.

 

[jimbob]

Non Angli sed angeli

Some context from my favourite history book:

Noticing some fair-haired children in the slave market one morning, Pope Gregory, the memorable pope, said (in Latin), 'What are those?' and on being told that they were Angels, made the memorable joke – ' Non Angli, sed Angeli ' (' not Angels, but Anglicans ') and commanded one of his saints called St Augustine to go and convert the rest.

The conversion of England was thus effected by the landing of St Augustine in Thanet and other places, which resulted in the country being overrun by a Wave of Saints. Among these were St Ive, St Pancrea, the great St Bernard (originator of the clerical collar), St Bee, St Ebb, St Neot (who invented whisky), St Kit and St Kin, and the Venomous Bead (author of The Rosary). England was now divided into seven kingdoms and so ready were the English to become C. of E. that on one memorable occasion a whole Kingdom was easily converted by a sparrow.

 

[ddt]

Some context from my favourite history book:

The conversion of England was thus effected by the landing of St Augustine in Thanet and other places, which resulted in the country being overrun by a Wave of Saints.

Too bad there wasn't someone around like Farage who would have kept those furriners with their strange religions out.

At the recent UK elections, Farage stood as MP candidate for the constituency Thanet South.

 

[jimbob]

Too bad there wasn't someone around like Farage who would have kept those furriners with their strange religions out.

At the recent UK elections, Farage stood as MP candidate for the constituency Thanet South.

Did someone make a prediction about UKIP's performance in the election?

 

[ddt]

Did someone make a prediction about UKIP's performance in the election?

Now you say so, I seem to remember someone having a preposterous avatar about that.

 

[quadraginta]

Will the Mohawks make reparations to the various other tribes that they screwed? Then what about those tribes - will they need to make reparations for tribes that they may have screwed?

<snip>

How about if it was limited to just the tribes the U.S. broke treaties and contracts with?

 

[William Parcher]

How about if it was limited to just the tribes the U.S. broke treaties and contracts with?

I don't know that I am good with reparations at all given the complications of fairness. Excluding inter-tribal claims of harm from the picture seems unfair.

Did any tribes break treaties with the USA whereby those tribes should now make reparations with the government?

 

[Pianoro]

What I would like to know is whether the Native American reservations and the residents have similar subsidies or privileges?

In Canada, where Kahnawake is located, “Status Indians” enjoy various privileges, such as access to certain government programs not open to others, exemption from taxation or shares of money paid by the government to certain bands. Not every Canadian of native heritage is a “Status Indian” though. Who holds status is defined by a piece of legislation called the Indian Act and sometimes also by individual bands. Bands can set their own rules on who is a member and thus also a Status Indian. I am not sure though to what degree the Indian Act allows for bands to set up rules that would deprive people of their status.

This issue seems to be about whether or not a band member can reside on the reserve but not, as far as I can tell, about removing his band membership. However, some privileges granted to Status Indians are tied to residence on a reserve. There may also be privileges granted by band law to people living on the reserve.

ETA: For example it could be, and this is just speculation on my part, that band law provides every adult member and resident of the reserve with a place to live (a piece of land and a house). Since supply of land on the reserve is limited, the band may wish to restrict this privilege to members who marry within the band.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I found myself wondering what exactly the formula is for determining how 'pure' one's Mohawk ancestry had to be in order for someone to not run afoul of the rule.

You at least have to have a mohawk hairdo.

 

[dudalb]

How about more or less wiped out?

Bad,bigoted,behavior is bad bigoted behavior no matter who does it.
The idea that bad behavior is OK if done by certain groups because of a history of discrimination is one reason why I no longer consider myself to be a "progressive"; way too much excusing of bad behavior. The extreme version of this is the way some on the far left have become apologists for Islamic Extremists.

 

[dudalb]

"Giving Back" lands to the Mohawk and some other Iroquois FN would be "challenging" as the lands they presently have were granted to them after the American Revolution as compensation for lands lost in what's now New York. The British Government settled the portion of the FN who had fought on the British side in the American Revolution. Those lands were clear of other FN since the Mohawks had helped drive them out to secure rights to the fur trade in the run up to the Seven Years War.

Wonder what the Ghost of Joseph Brant thinks of all of this.