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Marry Out, Stay Out!

Stacko

Penultimate Amazing
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From the wait, what? C'mon! Files.

Dozens of protesters spent Saturday demonstrating in front of a house in Kahnawake, Que., where a Mohawk man lives with his non-native wife.

Marvin and Terry McComber woke up Saturday morning to spray-painted graffiti on the front of their two-storey yellow house, and on their daughter's car.
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Link
 
This is nothing new; it's been going on for years. The Kahnawake reserve has been particularly militant about "protecting" its "right" to "keep non-natives out of here" view, even when it amounts to discriminating against its own members and their choice of partners.

It is nuts, though, I agree.
 
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I realise this is a shallow comment, and that peoples cultural identities are based on many things, but they don't look particularly ethnicly Mohawk, do they?
I speak as someone who was raised by an immigrant family, and who identifies every bit as closely with my genetic home as with my cultural home...

I apologise for making this assumption, but maybe they have closed the gate after the horse has bolted????
 
I found myself wondering what exactly the formula is for determining how 'pure' one's Mohawk ancestry had to be in order for someone to not run afoul of the rule.
 
mikado said:
I realise this is a shallow comment, and that peoples cultural identities are based on many things, but they don't look particularly ethnicly Mohawk, do they?
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What does an ethnic Mohawk look like, in the 21st century?

I speak as someone who was raised by an immigrant family, and who identifies every bit as closely with my genetic home as with my cultural home...
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This seems like an appeal to authority fallacy. Why does it matter who you are speaking as? Does your speaking persona have special insight into the visible ethnic characteristics of Kahnawake Mohawks in the 21st century? Does your speaking persona have special insight into the values and expressions the Kahnawake Mohawks should choose to preserve and promote as part of their ethnic identity?

I apologise for making this assumption, but maybe they have closed the gate after the horse has bolted????
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If you find yourself on the point of apologizing for something before you've even said it, that's probably a good sign that you should just not say it.

Anyway, what's the horse? What's the gate? What does it mean to close the gate? When should they have closed it? Why can't they close it now?
 
theprestige said:
Anyway, what's the horse? What's the gate? What does it mean to close the gate? When should they have closed it? Why can't they close it now?
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I think what he meant to say was that maybe those who were harassing the couple need to investigate the "purity" of their own genes, before trying to "prevent the sacrilege of contamination of noble blood."
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Good for them seeking to preserve their genetic and cultural heritage.
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Maybe not in the way you are assuming.

By way of example, in the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, to be accepted as part of their genetic and cultural heritage it is necessary to prove that you are at least 25% Mohawk.

This in itself is rather interesting since the Iroquois (including the Mohawk) had for centuries made a practice of adopting the women, children, and young men that they captured, and in addition to that, because of the matriarchal nature of their culture the children of any Mohawk woman were also considered to be Mohawk, even if the father was European. This makes the question of Mohawk ancestry even more problematic.

Other tribes are not quite so fussy. To join the Cherokee Nation you have to be able to prove that one of your ancestors was on the Dawes Rolls, a list of 'official' Five Tribes members ordered by the U.S. Congress at the beginning of the 20th Century. No blood quantum is specified.

The Eastern Band of Cherokee have the Baker Rolls (1924). They require a 1/16 blood quantum from someone on that list. That would be one great-great grandparent.

Many native American groups don't even go that far.

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tl;dr

The point is, ST, I think you are being a bit too congratulatory. From what you have said in past posts it doesn't seem like the efforts you are lauding here would even remotely approach your standards of racial purity.

Or would you consider someone with only one white grandparent out of all their ancestry to be white?
 
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See the woman with the "Respect our Mohawk Laws and Customs" sign. Apparently, hiding your waist under many layers of fat is one of the customs.

Crude and judgmental? Yeah, probably. So sue me.
 
Susheel said:
I think what he meant to say was that maybe those who were harassing the couple need to investigate the "purity" of their own genes, before trying to "prevent the sacrilege of contamination of noble blood."
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OK, they are obviously racists. Their excuse is just as valid (for which I trust we know I mean *********** invalid) as that of any other racists.......

Makes them free to devour feces and expire by me.............:D:):D:):D:jaw-dropp
 
Inbreeding causes mental problems too, leading to stupid rules requiring inbreeding.
 
LashL said:
This is nothing new; it's been going on for years. The Kahnawake reserve has been particularly militant about "protecting" its "right" to "keep non-natives out of here" view, even when it amounts to discriminating against its own members and their choice of partners.

It is nuts, though, I agree.
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Is there anything in particular they are trying to "protect" (like revenue from mineral rights from tribal lands) or is it driven by fear of assimilation ? If it's the former then I can see the requirements getting progressively tighter until only the tribal leaders and their immediate families are entitled to share in the wealth. If it's the latter, I think they'd be better off being more inclusive and encouraging others to "convert" to their culture.
 
LashL said:
This is nothing new; it's been going on for years. The Kahnawake reserve has been particularly militant about "protecting" its "right" to "keep non-natives out of here" view, even when it amounts to discriminating against its own members and their choice of partners.

It is nuts, though, I agree.
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Is it really? They see themselves as a distinct people. You marry and reproduce outside your own... It's only a matter of time before your distinct people do not exist.

I don't think it's nuts at all, but completely natural. That's not saying anything to whether it is right o wrong.
 
mikado said:
I realise this is a shallow comment, and that peoples cultural identities are based on many things, but they don't look particularly ethnicly Mohawk, do they?
I speak as someone who was raised by an immigrant family, and who identifies every bit as closely with my genetic home as with my cultural home...

I apologise for making this assumption, but maybe they have closed the gate after the horse has bolted????
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That also seems true after looking at the pictures from the article.

There was a woman murdered here in my home province. Apparently she was native..... Here is her picture.. She could have been Swedish.
 
The Don said:
Is there anything in particular they are trying to "protect" (like revenue from mineral rights from tribal lands) or is it driven by fear of assimilation ? If it's the former then I can see the requirements getting progressively tighter until only the tribal leaders and their immediate families are entitled to share in the wealth. If it's the latter, I think they'd be better off being more inclusive and encouraging others to "convert" to their culture.
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No Natives in Canada get no special privileges. :rolleyes:
 
I would like some clarification on something. When reading about this, I, admittedly in a very cicuitous manner, related the situation to something closer to home.

In India, we too have something called "reservation". This is series of affirmative action policies originally intended to provide a level field in education and jobs for the "lower castes" who were, and still are, discriminated against with regard to access to education and jobs. So there is a certain percentage of admissions or recruitments (in mainly government organisations) reserved for the underprivileged castes traditionally discriminated against apart from educational subsidies. The issues around this are pretty contentious and I will add that the issue is also politically exploited.

A couple of decades ago there was a big scandal when an upper caste woman supposedly identified herself as lower caste based on the status of her spouse to obtain a priveleged government job. I think it was later discovered to have been a story fabricated by the anti-reservationists.

What I would like to know is whether the Native American reservations and the residents have similar subsidies or privileges?
 
Susheel said:
I would like some clarification on something. When reading about this, I, admittedly in a very cicuitous manner, related the situation to something closer to home.

In India, we too have something called "reservation". This is series of affirmative action policies originally intended to provide a level field in education and jobs for the "lower castes" who were, and still are, discriminated against with regard to access to education and jobs. So there is a certain percentage of admissions or recruitments (in mainly government organisations) reserved for the underprivileged castes traditionally discriminated against apart from educational subsidies. The issues around this are pretty contentious and I will add that the issue is also politically exploited.

A couple of decades ago there was a big scandal when an upper caste woman supposedly identified herself as lower caste based on the status of her spouse to obtain a priveleged government job. I think it was later discovered to have been a story fabricated by the anti-reservationists.

What I would like to know is whether the Native American reservations and the residents have similar subsidies or privileges?
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That sounds a lot more like Affirmative action which is targeted toward many minority groups. Native American Reservations are areas that were set aside for the tribes by various deals and agrements with the US government. As such the are administered by the Beuro of Indian Affairs and are legally separate from the states that they happen to reside within. So state laws do no apply within a reservation but tribal and federal do.
 
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