Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Kauffer · May 20, 2015

MichaelB said:
Photo of Nike Outbreak 2's from Rinaldi's 2008 report.

Michael, any idea when the 4th November interrogation translation will be available?

Thanks.

MichaelB · May 20, 2015

Rudy Guede's adidas shoes.

MichaelB · May 20, 2015

Kauffer said:
Michael, any idea when the 4th November interrogation translation will be available?

Thanks.

Kauffer · May 20, 2015

MichaelB said:
Yep in a day or two.

There's a heap of new depositions as well. Butterworth is in English.

Robyn Butterworth statement to UK police Nov 7 http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...-Witness-deposition-Butterworth-UK-police.pdf

Thanks, Michael.

Butterworth's is interesting - she flew home on the 3rd.

Are you aware of any other statements given by any of the British girls to the UK police?

Teddy2007 · May 20, 2015

This one is interesting to understand the mood and pressures of those days spent waiting around in the Questura:

MichaelB said:
Knox police station intercept Nov 4 http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co.../4-Nov-2007-Knox-police-station-intercept.pdf

anglolawyer · May 20, 2015

Teddy2007 said:
This one is interesting to understand the mood and pressures of those days spent waiting around in the Questura:

I will brush up my Italian and check that out.

Btw. Grinder seems to be under the impression that the claim is of 50+ hours being questioned by the police. My understanding is that it was 50+ hours either being questioned or hanging around waiting to be questioned. I can imagine the waiting being more tiring than the questioning, frankly, and I'm surprised (well not really) she didn't tell them to go **** themselves and that she would be there only when they were ready to question her and not otherwise.

MichaelB · May 20, 2015

Kauffer said:
Thanks, Michael.

Butterworth's is interesting - she flew home on the 3rd.

Are you aware of any other statements given by any of the British girls to the UK police?

As far as I know it was just her.

Teddy2007 · May 20, 2015

anglolawyer said:
I will brush up my Italian and check that out.

Btw. Grinder seems to be under the impression that the claim is of 50+ hours being questioned by the police. My understanding is that it was 50+ hours either being questioned or hanging around waiting to be questioned. I can imagine the waiting being more tiring than the questioning, frankly, and I'm surprised (well not really) she didn't tell them to go **** themselves and that she would be there only when they were ready to question her and not otherwise.

There's a lot of stress shown in the conversations. Amanda is exhausted, and they're both hungry. It could definitely contribute to a false confession/accusation IMO.

carbonjam72 · May 20, 2015

The Rudy Connection...

anglolawyer said:
Schengen. Twice Ninja'd

Technically speaking, it's not. The missing ingredient is dishonesty, without which there is no theft. If you found a briefcase containing a million dollars you had better turn that in.

Grinder is right.

The visit to the law firm is a mystery. If Rudy was an informer it could be that his handler told him to straighten things out with the lawyers to persuade them not to press charges as his hands would be tied otherwise. Then came the murder and all bets were off - except the one where his status would be kept secret in return for a cushy prison term without being rubbed out. I speculate.

Speculation perhaps, but these are the right questions to ask. There has to be an explanation of some kind.

The prank calls about the "bomb in the toilet" is a similarly weird detail that begged an explanation. The fact that they found the prank caller and got an explanation, permits the issue to be dropped from consideration as not relevant to the kercher case.

Rudy's prior relationship to the police, their familiarity with him as a burglar in Perugia, the failure to prosecute Rudy for his crimes and his release (or assistance received by Perugia) from Milan, the similarity of the kercher crime scene to Rudy's previous burglaries and whether police recognized Rudy's MO as Judge Nencini believed - all of these questions come up repeatedly, and are as yet unexplained. And this feels to me like a big piece of the puzzle.

Rudy as a low-level informer, whose crimes are "owned" by the police for allowing him to roam free, explains a lot. There has to be paper work on it, especially if Rudy was getting paid. Or maybe allowing Rudy to commit petty crimes WAS his pay. Maybe this is why Rudy's case file is still sealed, under the cover of some other bogus inquiry. (Mignini kept secret the testimony of an associate of Carlizzi against Spezi, using a terrorism/mafia law designed to protect witnesses. Maybe Mignini is playing the same game with Rudy, claiming his on-going work in a drug case or some such excuse? - my speculation)

Desert Fox · May 20, 2015

MichaelB said:
I still can't believe this gem from the recent document dump.

Lumumba to the Daily Mail:

He next saw Meredith at a party he threw in the club for his employees a couple of days later. “She made everyone two rounds of her special mojitos,” he says. “She was sparkly and cheery and lifted everyone’s spirits. I bumped into her again in town soon after. I asked her if she wanted to have a spell behind the bar when I next had a female DJ playing, as a kind of ladies’ night.
“She jumped at the chance, although she’d stopped coming into Le Chic, and I heard she wasn’t hanging around with Amanda much either. I wasn’t surprised. The two couldn’t have been more different.” Amanda, meanwhile, was becoming increasingly erratic. “Her moods started swinging from docile and lazy to hyperactive and flighty. “I knew she smoked cannabis and it was impossible to predict which one she’d be. “I told her I’d asked Meredith to come and work for me and her face dropped and there was a big silence. Then she said, ‘Fine,’ and stropped off. I knew then she was extremely jealous of Meredith. She obviously thought she was invading her territory.”

Click to expand...

Lumumba to the police November 6, 2007:

I have never been to Amanda’s house. I don’t know where Amanda’s house is. I’ve never met Meredith in my life.

Click to expand...

I consider what he said first to likely be the most accurate. People memories get altered through time and I suspect some of what has been suggested through the media has been internalized by him.

carbonjam72 · May 20, 2015

Desert Fox said:
I consider what he said first to likely be the most accurate. People memories get altered through time and I suspect some of what has been suggested through the media has been internalized by him.

Yes, but isn't the Daily Mail in particular famous for just making things up, like fabricating entire event and fictitious quotes?

Patrick was paid by them was he not? And IIRC, it was in the range of 10s of thousands of euros?

Strozzi · May 20, 2015

Desert Fox said:
I consider what he said first to likely be the most accurate. People memories get altered through time and I suspect some of what has been suggested through the media has been internalized by him.

It is quite possible that Lumumba did not know who Meredith was prior to her murder, even if she had been in his bar.

MichaelB · May 20, 2015

Lumumba's on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/lumumba.d.patrick?fref=ts

Someone saw him leaving the SC after the verdict and said he looked absolutely gutted. Pacelli too who'll be sending him a big fat bill for his services.

Kauffer · May 20, 2015

anglolawyer said:
I will brush up my Italian and check that out.

Btw. Grinder seems to be under the impression that the claim is of 50+ hours being questioned by the police. My understanding is that it was 50+ hours either being questioned or hanging around waiting to be questioned. I can imagine the waiting being more tiring than the questioning, frankly, and I'm surprised (well not really) she didn't tell them to go **** themselves and that she would be there only when they were ready to question her and not otherwise.

I agree with you it's not 50 + hours of actual questioning. It's probably half that. Amanda says the first session on the 2nd was 6 hours. We know, of course about the 5th and 6th. The question is whether or not these verbale produced by the Italians are a complete record of what was asked and answered. The original Italian version of the Nov 4th interrogation is a mere one page long.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2007-11-04-Police-deposition-Knox.pdf

But we have this from Amanda with regard to what should be part of the content of that document:

"Amanda: It’s a little frustrating because... that is, they are very stressed and become more impatient with me and then... yesterday it’s been very difficult because when I went to the Police Station they questioned me and when I tried to reply they were telling me: “ Are you’re lying? Are you sure you’re not lying? Because if you’re lying you are getting yourself in big tro uble”, and I: “I’m not lying, I’m trying to help you”, you know? It bothered me, but at the same time when they brought me... There, they brought me home again and they asked me to examine all the knives to see if any were missing and just the fact of being there (in the house) frightened me to death, not to speak of having to browse through all the knives..."

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...da-Knox-phone-intercept-6.19pm-Nov-5-2007.pdf

anglolawyer · May 20, 2015

Teddy2007 said:
This one is interesting to understand the mood and pressures of those days spent waiting around in the Questura:

Ah yes! Amanda the superlative actress.

RoseMontague · May 20, 2015

Strozzi said:
It is quite possible that Lumumba did not know who Meredith was prior to her murder, even if she had been in his bar.

In his actual testimony he says he had seen her in the bar and he knew she was Amanda's friend, nothing about the Daily Fail stuff.

MichaelB · May 20, 2015

Have a look at this re the luminol and tell me what you think. I think it's reacting to the CSI clean up operation removing Guede's shoeprints or something they've applied to the floor that day.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/images-test/

Vixen · May 20, 2015

Wattson said:
"A passport may be required to travel between countries within Europe' however, 26 countries are part of the Schengen Agreement, which means that all internal borders between those countries have been eliminated. You do not need a passport to travel between Schengen Agreement countries.
Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland."

I was never asked for a passport when I flew from Barcelona to Rome.

I see. So you reckon anybody from Africa, Asia or the Americas are free to travel around Europe? I don't think so!

Every time I go abroad, even by Eurostar train to Germany, I have had to show my passport, there and back. (At the Uk border)

Desert Fox · May 20, 2015

Kauffer said:
I agree with you it's not 50 + hours of actual questioning. It's probably half that. Amanda says the first session on the 2nd was 6 hours. We know, of course about the 5th and 6th. The question is whether or not these verbale produced by the Italians are a complete record of what was asked and answered. The original Italian version of the Nov 4th interrogation is a mere one page long.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2007-11-04-Police-deposition-Knox.pdf

But we have this from Amanda with regard to what should be part of the content of that document:

"Amanda: It’s a little frustrating because... that is, they are very stressed and become more impatient with me and then... yesterday it’s been very difficult because when I went to the Police Station they questioned me and when I tried to reply they were telling me: “ Are you’re lying? Are you sure you’re not lying? Because if you’re lying you are getting yourself in big tro uble”, and I: “I’m not lying, I’m trying to help you”, you know? It bothered me, but at the same time when they brought me... There, they brought me home again and they asked me to examine all the knives to see if any were missing and just the fact of being there (in the house) frightened me to death, not to speak of having to browse through all the knives..."

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...da-Knox-phone-intercept-6.19pm-Nov-5-2007.pdf

At that point, she should have realized that they are out to get her. . . Something I think her mom saw coming.

Desert Fox · May 20, 2015

carbonjam72 said:
Yes, but isn't the Daily Mail in particular famous for just making things up, like fabricating entire event and fictitious quotes?

Patrick was paid by them was he not? And IIRC, it was in the range of 10s of thousands of euros?

England has all sorts of weird laws about libel however that makes it hard from me to navigate.

Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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