Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

This is something they had in common. It is NOT A LINK. They all smoked pot, So does my brother. Should we consider him a suspect as well?

Focus, Mr Tesla. The question being asked is why would Amanda meet up with Rudy at the cottage.

 

[Vixen]

What does this mean? Is everybody that has smoked marijuana linked to every other person in the world by the fact that they have smoked marijuana. OK, but this seems a bit of a tenuous idea to put forth to support the notion that Guede and Knox knew each other. So you must mean something else. What?

Do you mean that Knox and Guede knew each other or that they had some sort of significant interaction? There seems to be some evidence that they had seen each other. There is no evidence as far as I know that Sollecito had even seen Guede.

But the important question is whether there was any significant interaction between them and the evidence you provide for that is that they both had used marijuana? Or are you relying on the idea that Knox had the phone number of somebody that had a history of drug abuse to support the idea that there was a tie-in between Knox and Guede?

Doesn't that seem a bit of a tenuous piece of evidence to you? Do you have evidence that Guede and Knox had ever had any significant interactions? You know stuff like phone records, letters, witness statements? Do you have any testimony from Guede about how Knox and he conspired to murder Kercher? Do you have any testimony from Guede about any interactions at all with Knox?

It is well documented they had interacted.

 

[Grinder]

It seems absurd and counter-productive to attempt to argue or debate and yet not have common definitions on the topic. Furthermore, there is the inconsistency of arguing about legal matters - in Italy - where the posters (including especially me) don't have full knowledge of the law (the CP, Italian criminal code, which defines the legal elements of crimes and their punishments). Then one attempts to use the "common definition" which is really an abbreviated version of a generalized US or common law definition. Note that Italy has never had the common law, which derives from English and more generally British law.

What are the elements of the crime of burglary in Italy? There may be issues relating to whether or not something is stolen, which is what I infer from Hellmann's discussion of Raffaele's comment to the police that "there has been a break-in but nothing is missing" (or words to that effect).

ETA: And you, Grinder, are stating what the discussion was about. That is your opinion. I am entitled to my opinion and my statements.

No not an opinion. Read the assertions of Tesla. He is talking about the pattern of behavior of Rudi. He uses sources that all of you rip Vixen a new one. He says Rudi broke into the nursery even though the owner and witness says there were no signs of a break in. Then he says oh oh how about an open window but there are bars over the windows.

You obviously can discuss whatever you want but when responses to my positions are not to the point I'm discussing I will point that out.

 

[Vixen]

A call, a text, an email, a visit to each other's apartments, a planned interaction, a witness to a drug sale or purchase - something? Anything to indicate a relationship?

Kokomani saw them all together outside the cottage, as he originally told police. Rudy was terrified of the drug dealers on the cathedral steps. It indicates he was in some kind of drug debt.

He was waiting outside the cottage for Amanda, as she owed him for drugs. Mez understandably was fed up, with yet another strange man at the flat. Her anger was the pretext for the premeditated slaying. Koko saw Amanda outside waving a knife, spoiling for a fight, completely off her head, together with Raf and Rudy.

Police are not looking for any other suspects.

 

[Numbers]

It is well documented they had interacted.

Vixen plays a word game in this post.
Meredith had also "interacted" with Guede before Nov. 1, 2007.
There is even more evidence that the downstairs boys "interacted" with Guede.

What Vixen's posts offer is a strong presumption of guilt and a load of false statements, logical fallacies, and word games. The rebuttals of Vixen's posts by other posters are of more relevance to the case.

But the case is actually settled, as of March 27, 2015. The former defendants, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, were finally acquitted of the charges relating to the murder and rape of Meredith Kercher.

 

[Kauffer]

It is well documented they had interacted.

How did they arrange to meet up on the night of the murder? When did they meet? Where did they meet? Supply evidence in support of each answer.

 

[acbytesla]

Focus, Mr Tesla. The question being asked is why would Amanda meet up with Rudy at the cottage.

No. The question was how did the hook up? , Not why.
At least with Patrick there would have been a trail. With Rudy, you have NOTHING.

 

[Grinder]

A fair point, but a pretty good case has been put forth that Guede did enter the unit illegally. I believe you objected to two things with regard to this claim. It is not certain and if he did gain access it wasn't via B & E.

I disagree a bit with your first view in that it sounds to me like the evidence that has been put forth makes it at least likely that Guede did enter the unit illegally. And secondly I disagree with your notion that a lack of evidence for a B & E type of entrance precludes the possibility that Guede did enter the apartment via a B & E. And lastly I disagree a bit with your restrictive use of the term B & E. And it was that issue that I responded to above.

Dave - the fact that there is no evidence of a break in doesn't preclude a break in. Okay.

Do you think Tesla is talking about turning the knob and walking in? No in fact he tried to use the old open window ruse but the windows are barred.

I wasn't the one that said there was no sign of a break in. It was Prato.

In any discussion about this event no one would think anything except he was let in or had a key given to him. Certain people here wish to make Rudi into a great burglar but the evidence is a best skimpy.

Rudi was also sleeping on barges in Germany. I'm surprised that hasn't been added to the list.

Note that Tesla hasn't produced proof of Diaz or admitted the windows at the nursery have bars. CT could say for sure it was Rudi and since his girl friend and the bouncer at Domus (?) didn't testify (AFAIK) that adds to doubts.

There were rocks on the street so clearly Amanda threw them or used her wiles to make some boys do it. There is as much proof of the accusations against Rudi as the rock throwing party, actually less.

 

[Numbers]

No not an opinion. Read the assertions of Tesla. He is talking about the pattern of behavior of Rudi. He uses sources that all of you rip Vixen a new one. He says Rudi broke into the nursery even though the owner and witness says there were no signs of a break in. Then he says oh oh how about an open window but there are bars over the windows.

You obviously can discuss whatever you want but when responses to my positions are not to the point I'm discussing I will point that out.

There were no signs of a forced entry. There was an unauthorized entry aka trespass.

Mind-readers among the posters will explain what Guede's intent was: 1) to steal, or 2) to rape the first unaccompanied woman who entered, or 3) to merely enjoy the facilities of the nursery.

ETA: Guede was apparently armed with a knife taken from the nursery. What is the relevance of having the knife on his person, or in his back-pack?

 

[Grinder]

Kokomani saw them all together outside the cottage, as he originally told police. Rudy was terrified of the drug dealers on the cathedral steps. It indicates he was in some kind of drug debt.

He was waiting outside the cottage for Amanda, as she owed him for drugs. Mez understandably was fed up, with yet another strange man at the flat. Her anger was the pretext for the premeditated slaying. Koko saw Amanda outside waving a knife, spoiling for a fight, completely off her head, together with Raf and Rudy.

Police are not looking for any other suspects.

Except he was a friend of her drug manufacturing boyfriend and had been personally introduced to Rudi by the BF.

Added problem was that she was in the plaza and the tow truck, oh well.

 

[Grinder]

There were no signs of a forced entry. There was an unauthorized entry aka trespass.

Mind-readers among the posters will explain what Guede's intent was: 1) to steal, or 2) to rape the first unaccompanied woman who entered, or 3) to merely enjoy the facilities of the nursery.

Yes he slept there waiting for someone to come in when the business was closed for the weekend. There is no doubt it was an unauthorized entry. It just isn't worth anything in the alleged crime wave of burglaries.

Pretty clear he was just sleeping rough.

 

[Grinder]

Tesla when will admit he didn't enter through a window?

 

[Bill Williams]

This is something they had in common. It is NOT A LINK. They all smoked pot, So does my brother. Should we consider him a suspect as well?

Focus, Mr Tesla. The question being asked is why would Amanda meet up with Rudy at the cottage.

No. The question was how did the hook up? , Not why.
At least with Patrick there would have been a trail. With Rudy, you have NOTHING.

The issue is both - why and how they could have hooked up at the cottage. This also has to be seen in the light that there is no forensic evidence, at all, linking Amanda Knox to this crime.

This is an issue, also, where Winterbottom's film is actually helpful. What Winterbottom's fictional substute sees when he ditches Simone (Barbie Nadeau's character), to discover the real-student-Siena (substituting for Perugia), is that the whole town from top to bottom is saturated with drugs - pot and cocaine being the two most common.

To try to make a link between Rudy and Amanda because they both smoked pot is like trying to make a connection between Arctic polar bears and Antarctic penguins because they are both cold water swimmers.

The compelling issue, then, is as acbytesla said - HOW would they have hooked up? There is no evidence they ever communicated with one another - and the PLE took possession of Amanda's phone in the early hours of Nov 6. Other than lurid speculation, nothing has been shown from call-logs that Amanda contacted anyone of significance in the drug world - which, back to the point, did not prevent at all from participating in the soft-drug culture of the student town.

Vixen is flooding this thread with assertions, mainly without proof, that don't amount to anything even if they were proven.

 

[RoseMontague]

Tesla when will admit he didn't enter through a window?

What's the address?

 

[JREF2010]

A fair point, but a pretty good case has been put forth that Guede did enter the unit illegally. I believe you objected to two things with regard to this claim. It is not certain and if he did gain access it wasn't via B & E.

I disagree a bit with your first view in that it sounds to me like the evidence that has been put forth makes it at least likely that Guede did enter the unit illegally. And secondly I disagree with your notion that a lack of evidence for a B & E type of entrance precludes the possibility that Guede did enter the apartment via a B & E. And lastly I disagree a bit with your restrictive use of the term B & E. And it was that issue that I responded to above.

Its a shame the prosecution and police didnt look into Rudy as much as they did the other innocent kids. They missed that opportunity...intentionally or mistakenly who knows.

Rudy makes the system look stupid and insulting for the Kerchers sake. I imagine they are let down with the whole process, especially with Rudy Guede.

 

[Bill Williams]

Doesn't that seem a bit of a tenuous piece of evidence to you? Do you have evidence that Guede and Knox had ever had any significant interactions? You know stuff like phone records, letters, witness statements? Do you have any testimony from Guede about how Knox and he conspired to murder Kercher? Do you have any testimony from Guede about any interactions at all with Knox?

It is well documented they had interacted.

That is not at issue, and it is not an answer to davefoc's question. I can't believe you would want people to see that this is your non-answer.

 

[acbytesla]

Kokomani saw them all together outside the cottage, as he originally told police. Rudy was terrified of the drug dealers on the cathedral steps. It indicates he was in some kind of drug debt.

He was waiting outside the cottage for Amanda, as she owed him for drugs. Mez understandably was fed up, with yet another strange man at the flat. Her anger was the pretext for the premeditated slaying. Koko saw Amanda outside waving a knife, spoiling for a fight, completely off her head, together with Raf and Rudy.

Police are not looking for any other suspects.

Yeah, Koko is credible. But where is there a connection to Rudy or Koko EVER? Remember, until 8:23 that evening Amanda was supposed to work. And at 8:40 Amanda is talking to Rudy's neighbor.

You say they interacted. But what proof do you have? The burden is on the accuser.

This is a fantasy of yours. Not a shred of proof.

 

[acbytesla]

Tesla when will admit he didn't enter through a window?

Have you seen every window?

 

[Kauffer]

Kokomani saw them all together outside the cottage, as he originally told police. Rudy was terrified of the drug dealers on the cathedral steps. It indicates he was in some kind of drug debt.

He was waiting outside the cottage for Amanda, as she owed him for drugs. Mez understandably was fed up, with yet another strange man at the flat. Her anger was the pretext for the premeditated slaying. Koko saw Amanda outside waving a knife, spoiling for a fight, completely off her head, together with Raf and Rudy.

Police are not looking for any other suspects.

That's interesting. Why was he waiting for her? How did he know she would show up? When and how did they make that arrangement? What time did he arrive? What time did she arrive?

We are aware of Kokomani's testimony. Why is it credible? Did Amanda have large gaps between her teeth after all? An American uncle who visited her in Perugia?

 

[acbytesla]

It is well documented they had interacted.

Don't you think you need more than saying "hello" and can I take your order to suggest that Rudy was her drug buddy and co-conspirator in the murder that Rudy committed?