Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

Thanks again but I was hoping to find the actual document because they usually make a statement about the defendant's nationality.

I found this in Massei and think it should put the debate to rest.

finally against Rudy Hermann GUEDE, a citizen of the Ivory Coast and a resident of Perugia since infancy.

Yeah I thought that's what you were trying to do. What you've cited is convincing. But, here is the list of all the reports, if you want to search more:

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/motivation-reports-appeal-documents/

There's actually another document floating around which was put up here - an original Official Italian one that gives Ivory Coast as his nationality. Rose will probably know. Or MichaelB

 

[MichaelB]

Yeah I thought that's what you were trying to do. What you've cited is convincing. But, here is the list of all the reports, if you want to search more:

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/motivation-reports-appeal-documents/

There's actually another document floating around which was put up here - an original Official Italian one that gives Ivory Coast as his nationality. Rose will probably know. Or MichaelB

Yep the fingerprint reports say Ivory Coast.

Milan Arrest: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...or-Ministry-Police-Guede-fingerprint-file.pdf

On file 2005: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...or-Ministry-Police-Guede-fingerprint-file.pdf

 

[Bill Williams]

That's an eye witness right there! And a newspaper report! You like these things. Why not now?

You have absolutely no ability whatsoever to evaluate.

If somebody comes forward as an eye witness, it is in the public interest to hear them. The court is quite capable of assessing its worth. Christian T OTOH wasn't an eye witness, it was all hearsay, which is not of interest in a court of law.

Momi had direct witness of Rudy. CT decided that perhaps the guy who he claims broke in holding a knife was Rudy. The judge barred him. Judges tend to be very good at spotting false testimony.

A couple of points, points that you made upthread in your completely random musings.

"If somebody comes forward as an eye witness, it is in the public interest to hear them." - will you then withdraw your opinion upthread that police can pick and choose what to present, when you said they are not compelled to present everything?

"Judges tend to be very good at spotting false testimony." As others have noted, Hellmann was, indeed, quite good at this. As were the 5 Supreme Court judges who on Mar 27, 2015, completely exonerated AK and RS.

 

[RoseMontague]

You have been shown a clipping from the TIMES.

No, that does not indicate he is an Italian citizen and therefore entitled to benefits in any case regardless of how that Owen Richards fellow from the High Times phrases it. Still waiting on a cite showing he was an Italian Citizen and therefore entitled to those benefits.

 

[Bill Williams]

So what? No law against it.

Rule 6, MA.

 

[Bill Williams]

You have been shown documentary evidence! And you come back with a clipping?

Documentary evidence Rudy is not Italian? Citation, please.

This is similar to Machiavelli who said that the "Dr." in front of Patrizia Stefanoni's name was a sign she had advanced thesis work, in other words a Ph.D. In fact, everyone with even an entry level degree in Italy is allowed, by convention, the title, "Dr.". The higher degrees, M.A., M.Sc., and Ph.D., etc. are designated by modifiers to the person's title, which never once appear in Stefanoni's name.

Now it is Vixen saying that Rudy was an Italian - rather than demonstrate that, in the grand tradition of "reversal of burden of proof," Vixen says it is up to someone else to prove it ain't so.

 

[RoseMontague]

Yep the fingerprint reports say Ivory Coast.

Milan Arrest: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...or-Ministry-Police-Guede-fingerprint-file.pdf

On file 2005: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...or-Ministry-Police-Guede-fingerprint-file.pdf

Yep, Ivory Coast. I believe that brings the total to six times in the court documents he is referred to as a citizen of the Ivory Coast.

 

[Bill Williams]

Is there a copy of Rudi's fast track motivations available? Please give link.

The one I could find quickly is in Italian, and not easily cut-and-pasted into a machine translator. Apologies.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Rudy_Guede_s_Supreme_Court_Sentencing_Report.pdf

There are (probably) motivations reports from Rudy's first-, as well as second-grade trials.

 

[RoseMontague]

This is similar to Machiavelli who said that the "Dr." in front of Patrizia Stefanoni's name was a sign she had advanced thesis work, in other words a Ph.D. In fact, everyone with even an entry level degree in Italy is allowed, by convention, the title, "Dr.". The higher degrees, M.A., M.Sc., and Ph.D., etc. are designated by modifiers to the person's title, which never once appear in Stefanoni's name.

Now it is Vixen saying that Rudy was an Italian - rather than demonstrate that, in the grand tradition of "reversal of burden of proof," Vixen says it is up to someone else to prove it ain't so.

Vixen is claiming Rudy, as an Itilian citizen, would not be concerned over rent because of benefits he would be entitled to only as an Italian citizen. The onus is on Vixen to prove it. A clipping from some UK rag referring to his nationality (not citizenship) falls well short of that.

 

[Vixen]

Oh, you're saying that Rudy wasn't inside the nursery without the owners consent? Or that he didn't have the stolen laptop and phone from the law office? He was convicted of posessing those stolen items.

Would you disagree that water is wet and fire is hot?

I am sure he did. Not sure it's meaningful in itself.

 

[RoseMontague]

The one I could find quickly is in Italian, and not easily cut-and-pasted into a machine translator. Apologies.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Rudy_Guede_s_Supreme_Court_Sentencing_Report.pdf

There are (probably) motivations reports from Rudy's first-, as well as second-grade trials.

This is his final ISC motivation.

 

[Grinder]

No comment on Massei calling him a citizen of the IC and a resident of Perugia?

 

[HumanityBlues]

That's not evidence. That's pure speculation in hindsight - a fine thing - has never been tested to be true.

We had a case in England Joanna Yeates(_?) was found brutally murdered. An eccentric elderly resident became a prime suspect. Suddenly, people came crawling out of the woodwork to reveal to the UK tabloid press what a creep, pervert and peeping Tom this guy was.

It turned out he was completely innocent and entirely respectable.

He won handsome damages.

Actually that is evidence. Your argument is basically a proverbial "nu uh", much like the majority of your arguments here.

 

[Vixen]

Poor poor Rudy. Everyone is trying to demonize the young saint. Unlike the unsavory students who spent their days studying and working like Amanda. Rudy was spending his days stealing handbags and his nights breaking into homes and businesses.

Poor poor Rudy. We just don't understand the lad. Those weren't really his shoe and palm prints in Meredith's blood. Oh I forgot, they were. Of course, he had a date with Meredith that evening. Of course he fingered Meredith with her consent. Of course, he was on the toilet listening to his music taking a dump while his new paramour was in the bedroom being murdered by someone he didn't recognize.

Poor poor Rudy who didn't know what to do after Mez's bizarre murder so he went dancing.

We just don't understand the young man.

Nobody is saying, "poor, poor Rudy", except you in a straw man.

There are two types of people, people who prefer the purity of truth, and those who like to have a Hollywood-style hate figure. This is childish mentality of the Harry Potter type.

In real life, the baddies aren't all ugly and deformed, lying in wait in the bushes. Indeed, Lucifer was said to be extremely beautiful and charming.

Let's drop the hyperbole.

 

[Bill Williams]

That's not evidence. That's pure speculation in hindsight - a fine thing - has never been tested to be true.

Oh, you're saying that Rudy wasn't inside the nursery without the owners consent? Or that he didn't have the stolen laptop and phone from the law office? He was convicted of posessing those stolen items.

Would you disagree that water is wet and fire is hot?

Vixen - you simply cannot follow a thread, or the train of thought therein.

Follow this thread backwards - it started with you saying that Rudy was being "demonized" by being described as the sole perp. You implied this was only because of the "advocacy of Dempsey and Burleigh.....

have a vested interest in demonising Rudy as the "sole perp".​

Acbytesla destroyed your argument by citing Rudy's "sole-perp" break-in in Milan.

In a completely non sequitor response you replied:

That's not evidence. That's pure speculation in hindsight - a fine thing - has never been tested to be true.​

.... and then you concluded THAT non sequitor by citing Joanna Yeates in England.... WTF!?

You then implied that citing Rudy's history of being a sole-perp second-storey-man is not evidence, it is only "speculation in hindsight." The strange thing is that profilers like John Douglas call those sorts of things indicators of who may have committed a crime. Rudy, with a background as a sole-perp second-storey man, or RS and AK no criminal history.

 

[Vixen]

No comment on Massei calling him a citizen of the IC and a resident of Perugia?

That implies to me residency rights of a naturalised citizen. Foreignets do not have residency rights. They have to apply for visas outside the EU.

 

[Bill Williams]

Nobody is saying, "poor, poor Rudy", except you in a straw man.
There are two types of people, people who prefer the purity of truth, and those who like to have a Hollywood-style hate figure. This is childish mentality of the Harry Potter type.

In real life, the baddies aren't all ugly and deformed, lying in wait in the bushes. Indeed, Lucifer was said to be extremely beautiful and charming.

Let's drop the hyperbole.

LOL. Nobody says this, except for Giuliano Mignini at the first AK/RS trial in front of Judge Massei.

Vixen - you know nothing about this case.

 

[davefoc]

No comment on Massei calling him a citizen of the IC and a resident of Perugia?

I'll make a comment. I assumed that it wouldn't be possible to prove that Guede wasn't an Italian citizen from publicly available sources and that Vixen was at least right that it was possible.

Alas it appears that you have proven both Vixen and I me wrong. You have produced documentation that for practical purposes seems to exclude the possibility that Guede was an Italian citizen.

It is a surprising fact to me. I figured that if he was adopted by a well off family they would have done the legal things necessary to make him one. Clearly I don't understand some things here.

ETA: I went back and forth on whether it should be "Alas it appears that you have proven both Vixen and me wrong" or "Alas it appears that you have proven both Vixen and I wrong".

For first idea was that it should be Vixen and I because it sounded right, then I thought that I was the object of the phrase and as such me would be correct. Now after further consideration I think I was correct because in the phrase, "you have proven both Vixen and I wrong" I is not an object. The phrase is a shortened form of you have proven that both Vixen and I were wrong. I in this phrase is actually the subject and therefore the nominative form of the pronoun should be used.

 

[Vixen]

LOL. Nobody says this, except for Giuliano Mignini at the first AK/RS trial in front of Judge Massei.

Vixen - you know nothing about this case.

Bill, please get rid of the Lord Haw-Haw personna.

 

[Bill Williams]

Bill, please get rid of the Lord Haw-Haw personna.

I even know who Lord Haw-Haw is. However, you said that no one used the "poor Rudy" meme, except as an innocenter meme, a straw-man. You are wrong and galactically wrong. This is exactly the way prosecutor Giuliano Mignini described Rudy at AK and RS's trial.

When you deal with this by levelling ad hominem at the messenger, it shows the veracity/honesty of your posts.