Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Of course, the guilters miss the point about the burglary and that is that the burglary was interrupted. A burglar doesn't want to be connected to items that could link to a murder.

Maybe they were interrupted?

 

[Bill Williams]

Yes, and he has never retracted his early statement he "could not be sure" (read, "no") Amanda was with him between 8:45 and 1:00. He's called press conferences to say so.

Then you should read his book to see what he said. He's said that Amanda is innocent. Why do you think he knows this? Please confine yourself to what Raffaele has written, not what Peter Quennell says is "really" going on.

 

[Vixen]

Of course, the guilters miss the point about the burglary and that is that the burglary was interrupted. A burglar doesn't want to be connected to items that could link to a murder.

I think you are close here. Kokomani didn't want to give evidence as he feared the cosa nostro were not too happy about being involved in a murder without their instructions.

 

[acbytesla]

Maybe they were interrupted?

Who is they?

 

[LashL]

They initially speculated it was someone she had met at the party.

Isn't it the case that, initially, the crack Perugian police floated the theory that Ms. Kercher was a slutty party girl (based upon what they presumed to be her excessive drinking and all-night-long bar hopping) who probably invited her killer into her apartment when nobody else was there and her putative 'boyfriend' was away for the weekend, and insinuated that whatever had happened to her was probably her own fault? Didn't they try to push that "theory" by asking the room mates about Ms. Kercher's sexual habits, and specifically about whether or not she was into anal sex (presumably because the crack Perugian police could think of no other reason that a person might have Vaseline - which the crack Perugian police took pains to photograph on Ms. Kercher's bedroom table/desk)?

This is the mindset that the crack Perugian police and the nutcase pervert Mignini had from the outset - that if a god-damned foreign girl was killed in Perugia, it had to be the fault of the god-damned foreign girl, not the fault of any Italian, being fine upstanding citizens all, of course.

All they did later was substitute one god-damned foreign girl for another, just as they substituted one god-damned black guy for another with Lumumba and Guede. Sure, Mignini and Co. had to sub in Raffaele Sollecito as well, but he wasn't Perugian, and they needed him to make the she-devil nonsense (transferred from Ms. Kercher to Ms. Knox at this point) fly, so he was an acceptable sacrifice as far as Mignini was concerned.

They interviewed every man connected to Mez they could find AFAIK.

Did they? Do you have a list?

Maybe they did go to her school.

Maybe. It should have been Investigation 101 to do so, but it is not clear that the crack Perugian police did any meaningful sort of canvas at Ms. Kercher's school. I would certainly be interesting in seeing what they did (or didn't do) in that regard.

 

[Grinder]

You have no idea how the police work. They are literally teams of several hundred people. Teams of investigators (detectives) collate the evidence, scientific, eye witness, circumstantial, behaviour, etc., etc.

Hours and hours of transcribed interviews.

They have to produce a report for the prosecutors, who make the decision as to whether there is enough evidence. Producing a report, means making recommendations.

Next, a completely independent body, the judiciary, arranges hearings to appraise what the issues are, the witnesses, the jurisdictions, etc.

At any point, the emphasis can shift.

In Italy they are not completely independent.

 

[acbytesla]

I think you are close here. Kokomani didn't want to give evidence as he feared the cosa nostro were not too happy about being involved in a murder without their instructions.

Still making stuff out of thin air? Why should you stop? It's your MO.

 

[Kauffer]

Don't forget, the police turned up unexpectedly.
Perhaps in the aftermath the perps responsible for the staging forgot to remove something obvious.

Not on Nov 1st they didn't. When do you think the phones were stolen?

 

[Grinder]

Heheh, not like Ronaldo to get out of bed for less than $7m!

AFAIAA Rinaldi and Boemia are experts who have analysed hundreds of footprints and are professionally trained to be objective.

Are you seriously saying the two Italians were eager to incriminate one of their own, instead of the African ragazzo? Really?

The FBI is now undoing thousands of cases that their hair experts effed up. These guys used the discredited grid system ( by another American).

 

[Vixen]

Vixen,

According to pro-guilt commenters the pro-innocence experts who did not testify are to be ignored because they were not cross-examined, and the defense experts who did testify are just prostituting themselves for the money. One of many reasons why this fails is that the arguments could just as easily be applied to pro-guilt experts. Another is that one of Dr. Gill's peers* said that no one has done more for DNA profiling over the last thirty years than he has. Dr. Gill's book will be read for many years. Why would he say things that he thinks are wrong? It would only sully his reputation.
*John Butler, author of the most widely used set of textbook on DNA profiling.

Possibly for a similar reason as Dr Gill. They want to enhance their reputation by publishing, and to put themselves out there as expert defense witnesses.

With the huge PR campaign, it is inevitable that kind-hearted people rushed forward to help what they didn't realise was clever branding, a grave case of miscarriage of justice.

Dr Gill was probably affronted by the "sincere" tales of police brutality and torture and felt moved to intervene professionally.

It is clear he considers the Italian police to be complete idiots who have no idea how DNA works.

On the radio, he really seemed to think that people have glamorous ideas about forensic evidence.

 

[Vixen]

Please present a citation for your claims that specks of blood were found on Raffaele's car door handle and back seat cover. Please include the citation of this in the scientific police records.

Read it somewhere. I cannot remember where.

 

[Bill Williams]

Possibly for a similar reason as Dr Gill. They want to enhance their reputation by publishing, and to put themselves out there as expert defense witnesses.

With the huge PR campaign, it is inevitable that kind-hearted people rushed forward to help what they didn't realise was clever branding, a grave case of miscarriage of justice.

Dr Gill was probably affronted by the "sincere" tales of police brutality and torture and felt moved to intervene proHfessionally.

It is clear he considers the Italian police to be complete idiots who have no idea how DNA works.

On the radio, he really seemed to think that people have glamorous ideas about forensic evidence.

Huge PR campaign?

Give it up Vixen.

 

[Kauffer]

Professional burglars don't tend to target student residences as the occupants tend to be (a) transitory and thus, don't invest in silverware and Picassos (b) quite hard up.

I always had my car broken into whenever I parked in the one area there were no parking restrictions. The police told me this type of thief was almost always a drug addict. They see a carrier bag in your car and they are so desperate, they'll smash and grab for it.

If the cottage was really burgled, it was probably a druggie.

At the beginning of the month, the rents are due. That's why Guede was there. For the cash he so desperately needed (and got) Not for paintings.

Opportunistic thefts from cars do not compare to planned house breaks.

 

[Grinder]

Vixen do you agree with the following:

I don't know whether Guede will get his retrial but I certainly hope so. I think too little attention has been paid to his statements. Many are just a pack of lies, but we should not ignore them when he has no reason to lie.Right back as far as the Micheli hearing Guede was adamant that he never broke in to the cottage, and that when he left, Meredith had her bra on and the body was in a different position. He also wrote in his German diaries of "all that blood in the bathroom and hall" suggesting to me that there was a clean up of some kind. If Guede were to be granted this retrial, then it must be in the open and it MUST be on the condition that he does not exercise his right to silence.

 

[Kauffer]

Read it somewhere. I cannot remember where.

TJMK?

Sources for your claims are not important are they?

 

[davefoc]

I heard Dr Gill on the radio recently, and he mistakenly thought he was speaking on behalf of the defense when he explained why the so-called "semen stain" could and should not be tested. Oops!

Was this part of the interview you heard on the radio:
https://audioboom.com/boos/2235453-prof-peter-gill-dna-expert-on-the-amanda-knox-case#t=0m0s

Transcript:

Ruth Alexandra (BBC Radio 4):
There was one piece of forensic evidence that wasn't scrutinized. A stain on the pillow found beneath Meredith's body, a stain that looked like semen. Sollecito's defense team wanted it tested but their request was refused.

I asked the prosecutor, Giancarol Costagliola, why.

Giancarol Costagliola:
[speaking in Italian (not transcribed)]

Translation of Giancarol Costagliola's response:
For a very simple reason that sperm is one of those substances that lasts over time. We must remember that Meredith had a boy friend. So it would have taken us on to another path that made no sense, because it's not possible to determine when this kind of substance might have been deposited on something. It would have mislead us entirely.

Peter Gill:
I think it would be crucial to carry out this kind of test because it might reveal an unknown DNA profile that has come from an individual who has no innocent reason to be in the flat. I find it remarkable that this wasn't done actually, because if the defense make a request for some work to be done which may exonerate a suspect, naturally you would expect this work to be carried out.

Ruth Alexandra (BBC Radio 4):
If you were judge or jury on this case would you be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the DNA evidence you've seen points to guilt?

Peter Gill
No absolutely not.

ETA:

Provide a citation please. Because I'm confident that he said the opposite. That what he said was there was no credible reason that the semen stain wasn't tested given the nature of the crime.

Was acbytesla right?

 

[RoseMontague]

As a matter of interest, isn't Raf supposedly ambidextrous? You can write with your right hand, but do all sorts of things with your left.

No. Raffaelle is right handed.

 

[Numbers]

You have no idea how the police work. They are literally teams of several hundred people. Teams of investigators (detectives) collate the evidence, scientific, eye witness, circumstantial, behaviour, etc., etc.

Hours and hours of transcribed interviews.

They have to produce a report for the prosecutors, who make the decision as to whether there is enough evidence. Producing a report, means making recommendations.

Next, a completely independent body, the judiciary, arranges hearings to appraise what the issues are, the witnesses, the jurisdictions, etc.

At any point, the emphasis can shift.

In Italy they are not completely independent.

The relationships in Italy are as follows:

The criminal (aka judicial) police are ordinarily paid and administered through the interior ministry. The carabinieri are a branch of the military, ordinarily paid and administered by that ministry. When there is a criminal investigation in progress, all police personnel working on that investigation are under the supervision and direction of the prosecutor (public minister) with respect to the investigation. The public minister is a member of the judiciary, as are the judges, and all are only under the supervision of the High Council of the Judiciary, which is independent of the Parliament and Government and autonomous (see Italian Constitution, Article 104). Thus, there is no independence of police, prosecution, and judges during an investigation or later court proceedings in Italy.

 

[RoseMontague]

TJMK?

Sources for your claims are not important are they?

The test results were negative for blood as I posted earlier. Vixen is simply spreading falsehoods that he heard somewhere. All of these things Vixen hears are not in the actual test results, transcripts, and official documents pertaining to the case.

 

[Grinder]

At the beginning of the month, the rents are due. That's why Guede was there. For the cash he so desperately needed (and got) Not for paintings.

Opportunistic thefts from cars do not compare to planned house breaks.

Rudi owes money to the Albanian drug gang and Koko drives him to the cottage to liberate the 1200 in cash laying around for the rent, Maybe a third guy is along that actually does the killing commando style. As a pro he leaves little behind and since the PLE discarded prints and DNA they couldn't match with their suspects no one would notice. Maybe it was his semen.

There was a woman on Perugia Shock that spoke a lot about the Albanian gangs and their influence in Perugia.