Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Vixen has not thought of asking herself: why did none of the killer points that were leaked to Richard Owen make it to the trial?

Police rarely use all of the evidence. They focus on the key essentials. Limits the degrees of freedom.

 

[Grinder]

So what, then, is the point of bringing up the washing machine? If Amanda/Raffaele or anyone else for that matter didn't use it in the wee-hours of Nov 2nd, then why is it even being brought up?

Even though I distrust your claim - given with no citation - you've just offered "evidence" against the argument you'd originally intended.

Well Bill it was covered in early news stories. It was definitely said that she found it too complicated and didn't use it. However, I'm sure Raf would know how to use it.

However it was not running or warm when the police arrived. Amanda could have just said that she started a load at 10:30 no big deal.

 

[Grinder]

Police rarely use all of the evidence. They focus on the key essentials. Limits the degrees of freedom.

Oh. I would seem that some very unimportant things were considered.

 

[Bill Williams]

Vixen has not thought of asking herself: why did none of the killer points that were leaked to Richard Owen make it to the trial?

Police rarely use all of the evidence. They focus on the key essentials. Limits the degrees of freedom.

The random factoid generator is back!

So - which part of the corpus of evidence did the police hold back? Did the scientific police, for instance, hold back the raw data files from their DNA investigation?

Whose side are you on?

 

[Bill Williams]

Well Bill it was covered in early news stories. It was definitely said that she found it too complicated and didn't use it. However, I'm sure Raf would know how to use it.

However it was not running or warm when the police arrived. Amanda could have just said that she started a load at 10:30 no big deal.

Citation please.

 

[Grinder]

Citation please.

Check the old news reports.

 

[Vixen]

Well, let's consider things from the worst possible perspective. This is a note written by Meredith and intended for Amanda. In the afternoon of the 1st they were together with no reports of animosity. But OK, we only have A & R's word for that. So presumably Meredith would have got things off her chest with her English friends - but no, she didn't. OK then, Filomena and Laura must have known of this extreme unpleasantness between the two English speakers, yet they had nothing to say to the court. Meredith did not confide in her boyfriend nor in her family. So she was willing to pen a semi-public and extremely unfriendly note but not to tell anybody anything at all about what occasioned it. She also exchanged friendly text messages with Amanda on Halloween. Finally, the ILE made no use of the note at the trial, despite having a case that would have been considerably beefed up by this kind of evidence.

Case dismissed! It might still pass muster in the court of Quennell though.

That Mez had no enemies apart from her murderer, then it makes her death all the more senseless (cf Cassie Stoddart).

 

[Bill Williams]

Citation please.

Check the old news reports.

LOL! No matter.

 

[Vixen]

I don't know enough to say whether the defense legal teams did or did not perform at the highest level during the Massei trial.

I do know from reading the Google Translate of Giobbi's testimony that Bongiorno questioned him quite a bit about the downstairs flat and the blood there. That is where he stated that the blood on the light switch was due to the cat jumping. And he affirmed that his statement was not a joke.

My guess is that the defense did try to tie the downstairs evidence into the case, but that the prosecution witnesses (the police) were not forthcoming and so stymied this avenue of inquiry. Without the DNA profiles of the blood stains from downstairs, and the quite probably false and certainly not objectively demonstrated statements from the scientific police that the blood was from a cat, there may have been no way for the defense to fully explore the downstairs evidence.

IIRC The specks of blood found on Raf's car door handle and back seat cover were also deemed non-human. Perhaps the cat nipped out for a little TDA.

 

[Strozzi]

Dr.Gill prostituted himself for the Raf defense. Wasn't cross examined, never saw the evidence first hand. There's no accounting for negligent stupidity.

Dr. Peter Gill, a renown British scientist, has reviewed the forensic evidence in this case and written and spoken scathingly about the errors, false analysis, and evidence suppression committed by Dr. Stefanini and her colleages. Gill does not work for the defense. Gill has never been paid for his work or views.

Vixen, are you aware that prosecution experts Pietro Boemia and Dr. Lorenzo Rinaldi, a physicist who worked for the Polizia Scientifica in Rome, analyzed the bathmat partial-footprint without ever seeing the bathmat?

Ronaldo was paid over $7,000 dollars (additional) by the prosecution to serve as their paid expert while working as a police lab scientist for the forensic police.

They never saw the bathmat. They constructed (fabricated) their conclusion that the partial footprint in watered-down blood on the knobby bathmat was Raffaele' without ever seeing the bathmat. They looked at photos, as if the bathmat gave a fingerprint, which it did not. They grossly mismeasured the partial-footprint smear to try to make it fit the known dimensions of Raffaele's foot. Raffaele has a unique hammer-toe which is not shown on the footprint smear.

Boemia and Rinaldi based their conclusions on image analysis. Boemia admitted under cross-examination that he didn’t know where the photos came from or what type of camera took the photos.

 

[anglolawyer]

Police rarely use all of the evidence. They focus on the key essentials. Limits the degrees of freedom.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. First, the prosecution (not the police) uses everything that may help prove its case. The idea that Mignini decided to go easy on the bleach receipts, for example, is simply laughable. Do you really believe he refrained from using the best evidence he had of a clean up? Seriously? That he preferred garbage like Curatolo? Hahahahahahaha!!!

You have spent way to long over at TJMK. This sort of idiotic pronouncement on matters of which you know nothing is par for the course there. Same with your ludicrous ad hom against Peter Gill. Have a little humility.

 

[anglolawyer]

That Mez had no enemies apart from her murderer, then it makes her death all the more senseless (cf Cassie Stoddart).

Your post appears to have nothing to do with mine.

 

[anglolawyer]

Grinder

You asked a page back what was in her statement that they knew to be untrue. Well one big thing is her whereabouts when she texted Patrick (or when he texted her, not sure which). They had her in the vicinity of her place on one of those texts.

Btw. she mentioned Le Chic on the 3rd, but not Patrick (unless they couldn't be bothered to jot that down).

 

[Vixen]

Citation please. I'd bet that there is little more than anecdotal evidence available to support this contention. In fact, my bet is that staging a crime scene is in fact extremely rare and are much more likely the figment of over imaginative investigators and crime novelists.

Both Amanda and Raf were previously familiar with staged burglary.

 

[Strozzi]

That's not what I asked. Do you think Rudi should get another trial?

Vixen, why didn't Filomena call the police to report the broken window break-in as soon as she got off the call with Amanda? She called a lawyer, but didn't dial the police. She speaks Italian better than the American, right?

I think the reason Filomena called a lawyer and rushed into her room as soon as the postal police was preoccupied elsewhere was to check for and recover her drug stash before the police found it.

 

[RoseMontague]

LOL! No matter.

Amanda's testimony...

GHIRGA: In relation to these clothes, had you done any laundry
that morning? Had you done washing together or separately, or
used the drying rack? Did you do any kind of laundry activity on
that morning?
AK: Well, it was totally normal for me to put things on the
drying rack along with the things belonging to the others. So,
yes, I took the things I had that were dry and I put them in my
room.
GHIRGA: Was it also normal for you to mix clothes together inside
the washing machine?
AK: It was normal, when someone needed to use it, they just put
stuff in and did it. Yes, yes.

 

[Desert Fox]

Both Amanda and Raf were previously familiar with staged burglary.

I love bald assertions without any evidence supporting them.

 

[Vixen]

Citation! I've produced citations that make it clear staging is not obscure.



Why not. Nothing taken. Glass on top of clothes. High window. Raf saying nothing was stolen when he couldn't really know.

What do you think is good evidence or indication of staging? A neon sign that says this was staged?

A good job of staging would leave NO evidence of it being staged.

ETA another cite -
It might be purely coincidence, but it's plausible that burglars may target houses where cats are present. People often leave open windows, doors, and even disable alarms because of the creatures. They present a potentially massive security risk. This may even prevent your insurance company from paying out in the event of a burglary, because you had your alarm turned off. And that may seem a little suspicious to some. It could even end up with a fraud investigation. People often stage burglaries to claim from insurance.

This should be red meat for the downstairs debate.

ETA 2 - a Typology of Staged Crime Scenes - ePublications@bond a good read Tesla

A good clue the burglary is staged, is finding a body behind lock and key and nothing taken, except personal effects of the victim.

 

[anglolawyer]

Vixen, why didn't Filomena call the police to report the broken window break-in as soon as she got off the call with Amanda? She called a lawyer, but didn't dial the police. She speaks Italian better than the American, right?

I think the reason she called a lawyer and rushed into her room was to check for and recover her drug stash before the police found it.

I saw Amanda lying about drugs in her 3rd November statement. I find that amazing. There had been a brutal murder in her apartment and she and the others seriously thought the police are going to give a **** about some pot? Or that it might not be relevant to them to know about it? That lie did her no good at all.

 

[Vixen]

I agree. Once you accept Amanda and Raf never left their apartment that night, there's no point in speculating about their "staging a crime scene". Its just silly. It never made any sense, and the prosecution refused to allow evidence testing that would refute their theory.

That is not Raf's position.