Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[MichaelB]

Here's the November 4 one where Bonassi tells the cops about Guede:

Original Italian:

Questura di Perugia Squadra Mobile Area Affari Genera
OGGETTO: Verbale di sommarie informazioni da persona inforniata sui fatti rese da: BONASSI Stefano Dario, gia generalizzato.
11 04 novembre 2007, alle ore17.35, negli Uffici della Squadra Mobile della Questura di Perugia. lnnanzi al Sost. Proc. Dr. Giuliano MIGNINI, della Procura della Repubblica presso ii Tribunale di Perugia, cooadiuvato dagli Ufficiali di P.G. V.Q.A. GIOBBI Edgardo VQA PROFAZIO Domenico Giacinto, Sost. Comm. NAPOLEON' Monica, Ispettore Capo Antonio FACCHINI, V. Soy. MOSCATELLI Daniele, e presente ii nominate in oggetto it quale sentito in merito ai fatti per cui e indagine, dichiara quanto segue: A.D.R Mi sono presentato spontaneamente per rendere dichiarazioni utili alle vostre inda.gini_ A.D.R Sabato 20 Ottobre u.s. sone andato a ballare al red zone the si trova a Casa Del Diavolo, abbiamo preso it tavolo a nome della padrona del caffe Morlacchi di name Mafalda. Nell'occasione io ero con la mia ragazza e Giacomo era con Meredith. Dopo un po' che eravano seduti ho litigate, per futili rnotivi, con un ragazzo al tavolo vicino a noi, di cui non ricordo i1 nome. A.D.R. Le persone che harm frequentato la nostra casa era Peppe, un compagno di facolta di Marco. Peppe, dovrebbe essere del sud, maim robusto, alto circa 1.86. Questi frequentava spesso la nostra casa. Poi frequentava la nostra casa un altro ragazzo soprannominato i1 barone, pin basso di me, palestrato, di cui non ricordo i1 name, di origine sudafricana. A.D.R Una sera quest'ultimo l'ho trovato a casa mia, allorquando sono rientrato e si trovava con i miei amici_ Nell'occasione it tipo era molto ubriaco e addirittura ha dormito sul water. A.D.R. Questo ragazzo aveva un'attrazione fisica per Amanda. A.D.I. Sicuramente Peppe conosceva Meredith mentre non ne sone sicuro del ragazzo sudafricanono. A.D.R. Un altro ragazzo che e venuto una volta a casa nostra e un ragazzo alto, magro, iridossante di solito scarpe da basket e pantaloni larghi, soprannominato Body Roga. A.D.R. le scarpe da tennis, che indossa solitamente ii ragazzo sono larghe a pianta larga, di cui non conosco la marca. A.D.R Pens° che mercoledi 31 u.s. Meredith e entrata a casa nostra poiche. doveva dar da t-nangiare ai gatti e annaffiare le piante, Infatti nella stessa giornata 6 arrivato un msg a Giacomo inviato da Meredith, la quale chiedeva se le piante dovevano essere annaffiate normalmente. A.D.R Mercoledi 31 u.s, la sera sono stato ad un locale di Porto san Giorgio per la festa di un compleanno_ Nell'occasione c'era Marco Marzan, Marco Niccolin, Maurizio Sbrolla e Giacomo A.D.R. La mattina di giovedi 1 novembre u.s., mi sono alzato verso le nave, a casa c'era mia madre e mia sorella_ Poi dope la colazione, fatta at bar Lampara, sono andato ad un centre mass aggi cu mia soirella. Poi verso le 11.00, sone andato all'ospedale per effettuare .una visita ur' logia_ 1 \

Google translation:

Police of Perugia Flying Squad Area Generate Business
SUBJECT: Minutes of summary information from person inforniata facts made by: Stefano BONASSI Dario, already widespread.
11 04 November 2007 to ore17.35, in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Police of Perugia. lnnanzi to Sost. Proc. Dr. Giuliano MIGNINI, ii of the Public Prosecutor at the Court of Perugia, cooadiuvato by Officers of PG V.Q.A. GIOBBI Edgardo VQA PROFAZIO Domenico Giacinto, Sost. Comm. NAPOLEON 'Monica, Chief Inspector Antonio FACCHINI, V. Soy. MOSCATELLI Daniel, and this ii named object in which it heard on the facts and that investigation, states the following: ADR I showed up spontaneously to make statements useful to your inda.gini_ ADR us Saturday, October 20 sone went dancing at the red zone is located in Casa Del Diavolo, we took it to the table name of the owner of the coffee Morlacchi name Mafalda. On this occasion I was with my girlfriend and James was with Meredith. After a while 'that eravano seated I fight, for trivial rnotivi, with a guy at the table next to us, I can not remember the name i1. A.D.R. The people who attended harm our house was Peppe, a fellow faculty of Marco. Peppe, should be the south, maim robust, high around 1.86. These often frequented our home. Then he frequented our house another boy nicknamed Baron i1, pin me down, Hefty, can not remember name i1, of South African origin. ADR One evening last I found in my house, when I went back and stood with my type amici_ occasion it was very drunk and even slept on the water. A.D.R. This guy had a physical attraction for Amanda. A.D.I. Peppe definitely knew Meredith while not sone safe boy sudafricanono. A.D.R. Another guy who once came to our house and a tall, thin, usually iridossante basketball shoes and baggy pants, nicknamed Body Roga. A.D.R. sneakers, wearing ii guy usually are broad in broad outline, that do not know the brand. A.D.R Pens ° Wednesday that 31 U.S. Meredith and entry to our home since. He had to give t-nangiare cats and water the plants, in fact, the same day 6 arrived a msg posted by James Meredith, who wondered if the plants should be watered normally. ADR Wednesday 31 us, the night I went to a local Port St. George's day a compleanno_ occasion was Marco Marzan, Marco Niccolin, Maurizio Sbrolla and Giacomo ADR On the morning of Thursday, November 1 us, I got up to the ship, to the house there was my mother and my sorella_ Then dope breakfast, made at bar Lampara, I went to a center mass premiums cu my soirella. Then around 11:00, persons went to the hospital to make .a visit ur 'logia_ 1 \

 

[MichaelB]

Bonassi says on November 3 his room was neat and tidy when he left and the duvet was pulled up over the pillows. After reading this I'm now firmly convinced Guede broke in downstairs as well because the duvet didn't move by itself. Now the question is how did he break-in because apparently the upstairs key which Meredith had was recovered. I was always skeptical of that claim but it does appear they found it. Soooo I'm now wondering if Guede stole a key to the downstairs aparment when he visited and spent the night there or on the next visit when he returned for the F1.

The guy is a low life thief and an opportunist. It'd be nothing to steal a key thinking it'd come in handy sometime he needed a place to burglarize.

 

[LondonJohn]

Its the yellow note, and I think the first sentence reads; "Your story has only hardened my heart".

But its blurry and thats my best guess.

It may be fun to speculate in guillter paradise, but don't we know everything was fine at the cottage, until Rudy Guede decided to break-in and make himself at home?

No: the first sentence reads "Your story has truly touched my heart"

I believe that the note is a joke - it's basically using the comedic device of offering apparently-sincere sympathy to the recipient, followed by an immediate insult. I don't think it is indicative of any real antagonism at all.

 

[anglolawyer]

No: the first sentence reads "Your story has truly touched my heart"

I believe that the note is a joke - it's basically using the comedic device of offering apparently-sincere sympathy to the recipient, followed by an immediate insult. I don't think it is indicative of any real antagonism at all.

Well, let's consider things from the worst possible perspective. This is a note written by Meredith and intended for Amanda. In the afternoon of the 1st they were together with no reports of animosity. But OK, we only have A & R's word for that. So presumably Meredith would have got things off her chest with her English friends - but no, she didn't. OK then, Filomena and Laura must have known of this extreme unpleasantness between the two English speakers, yet they had nothing to say to the court. Meredith did not confide in her boyfriend nor in her family. So she was willing to pen a semi-public and extremely unfriendly note but not to tell anybody anything at all about what occasioned it. She also exchanged friendly text messages with Amanda on Halloween. Finally, the ILE made no use of the note at the trial, despite having a case that would have been considerably beefed up by this kind of evidence.

Case dismissed! It might still pass muster in the court of Quennell though.

 

[anglolawyer]

Bonassi says on November 3 his room was neat and tidy when he left and the duvet was pulled up over the pillows. After reading this I'm now firmly convinced Guede broke in downstairs as well because the duvet didn't move by itself. Now the question is how did he break-in because apparently the upstairs key which Meredith had was recovered. I was always skeptical of that claim but it does appear they found it. Soooo I'm now wondering if Guede stole a key to the downstairs aparment when he visited and spent the night there or on the next visit when he returned for the F1.

The guy is a low life thief and an opportunist. It'd be nothing to steal a key thinking it'd come in handy sometime he needed a place to burglarize.

There certainly seems to be something decidedly fishy about the downstairs apartment. I can imagine why the ILE might have wanted to blame it all on the cat, since an entry by Guede looks more like burglary than sex game gone wrong, but why didn't the defence teams major on this?

Also, could the cops themselves have disturbed the comforter etc in their clumsy and intrusive investigation?

 

[LondonJohn]

There certainly seems to be something decidedly fishy about the downstairs apartment. I can imagine why the ILE might have wanted to blame it all on the cat, since an entry by Guede looks more like burglary than sex game gone wrong, but why didn't the defence teams major on this?

Also, could the cops themselves have disturbed the comforter etc in their clumsy and intrusive investigation?

Re this: perhaps partly because the issue didn't really speak directly to the non-guilt/innocence of Knox or Sollecito; and perhaps party because the defence teams dropped the ball (again) on this one........

I do hate to sound like I'm on endless repeat on this subject, but I firmly believe that Knox and Sollecito were really badly legally represented in the Massei trial - and "facts" established in the Massei trial eventually took several years to rectify and correct. Yes, I know the argument (to which I also subscribe) that the Massei trial was at least in part a stitch-up where the prosecutors had an unfair advantage in the eyes of the court. But I still think there were very many identifiable areas where the defence fell well short of a reasonable standard.

 

[Kauffer]

No: the first sentence reads "Your story has truly touched my heart"

I believe that the note is a joke - it's basically using the comedic device of offering apparently-sincere sympathy to the recipient, followed by an immediate insult. I don't think it is indicative of any real antagonism at all.

Yes, I think you're right. Bagels found the form of words elsewhere too. I was pretty sure it had nothing to do with Amanda and Meredith, but wondered if it might have been a language exercise from Romanelli or Mezzetti, or a genuinely nasty note from some rejected guy to one of the four female occupants.

But it now appears most likely to be a joke, as you say.

 

[Kauffer]

There certainly seems to be something decidedly fishy about the downstairs apartment. I can imagine why the ILE might have wanted to blame it all on the cat, since an entry by Guede looks more like burglary than sex game gone wrong, but why didn't the defence teams major on this?

Also, could the cops themselves have disturbed the comforter etc in their clumsy and intrusive investigation?

Could it be that Guede's original intention had been to steal from the downstairs apartment - that he had obtained a key for the purpose? Could he have let himself in there when he first arrived, found nothing worth his while taking and opportunistically went for the upstairs flat? In other words, could Guede have made two visits to the downstairs flat that night? I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest this.

 

[MichaelB]

Here's a google of Alice Puleo. I don't think this was Guede and the Nike shoes is just a coincidence.

POLICE HEADQUARTERS OF PERUGIA Division Police Anti-Crime Squad 3- Section
SUBJECT: Minutes of 5ommarie Information provided by: puled Alice born in ASSI5i (PG) en 09/24/1981, res. Perugia Via della Stella nr.7.-
The day 3.11,2007, cite 18.30 in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Police of Perugia. Next to the undersigned Official of the Judicial Police, Sov. Police 5tato Stefano GUBBIO the 41, in the service of the Office in which the header, and the person named in this object, the shares ° felt in merit to the facts being investigated by this Office, in effect Law, reports that: In the early afternoon yesterday 2 cm with my friend Massimo Cervini went alias laundromat via Fabbretti called "Laundry 67" to wash clothes. I think I arrived at approximately 13.30 to 45. Together with my friend we did we start cycle of the washing machine and shortly after we brought ally pizzeria located adjacent to the cut. we returned a few minutes later and noticed a girl in the laundry room and a foreign national. Questiultimo out at our arrivo_ With this girl we commentctto ii strange behavior deilo foreigner. In fact, the same reported that just before the stranger had come cilia laundry staggering, putting clothes in the washing machine, including brand NIKE shoes of those came after blu_ Paco and remained stuck in the front door but freed immediately. Even Massimo and I we went out waiting cycle levaggio, remaining in areas, we came back and shortly after he fell cliche. W e have noticed that moved the clothing washer to the dryer. At the same time called for a token cilia girl to complete the drying operation, after she left. The girl there reported seeing the individual, rummage net dumpster in front of the laundry, along with his compatriot. I finished washing my ii greeting the girl I came out with Massimo. He points out that the girl remained inside in how much he had finished his laundry ii. Describe the stranger: Height approximately 1.75, medium build, short hair blacks, wearing a light jacket light brown with zippo, light pants like jeans, wore a baseball cap with visor, dark, sneakers, cctrnagione olive, definitely Maghreb. A.D.R. sumption Ia stay in the laundry, did not receive any phone calls on a cell phone. A.D.R. He had no obvious sign net wine or Nelie hands, I think I'm able to recognize it. Facto Ietto confirmed and signed. sumption Ia verbate and drafting of this CERVINI Massimo born Perugia en 08/04/1984, res. Via Assisana Nr.49 who attended as narrated by the young and confirms in every part of the deposition.

 

[Dan O.]

Bonassi says on November 3 his room was neat and tidy when he left and the duvet was pulled up over the pillows. After reading this I'm now firmly convinced Guede broke in downstairs as well because the duvet didn't move by itself. Now the question is how did he break-in because apparently the upstairs key which Meredith had was recovered. I was always skeptical of that claim but it does appear they found it. Soooo I'm now wondering if Guede stole a key to the downstairs aparment when he visited and spent the night there or on the next visit when he returned for the F1.

The guy is a low life thief and an opportunist. It'd be nothing to steal a key thinking it'd come in handy sometime he needed a place to burglarize.

You will not convince me that Guede must have been in that room until either he talks, the DNA evidence is released or the other person known to have the keys and to have visited that apartment is interviewed.

 

[Numbers]

Could it be that Guede's original intention had been to steal from the downstairs apartment - that he had obtained a key for the purpose? Could he have let himself in there when he first arrived, found nothing worth his while taking and opportunistically went for the upstairs flat? In other words, could Guede have made two visits to the downstairs flat that night? I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest this.

IIRC, didn't Guede, in one or more of his statements to police, say that he had stopped by the downstairs flat while he was waiting for Meredith to come home for their date, and that he knocked but the downstairs boys were not home. He did not state that he entered downstairs. He also, IIRC, stated that he had heard noises that seemed to come from downstairs.

Of course, I don't accept Guede's statements as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but I agree with the suggestion that he was covering up his visit(s) downstairs in his statements to police.

If Guede had entered the downstairs flat to steal, was there any evidence of his searching it for cash or valuables? The mess seems more related to the hypothesis that he went downstairs to finish cleaning up and even perhaps obtaining a change of clothing (trousers/pants). I recall Diocletian's post that an art exhibit ticket had been found in Guede's apartment that could have come from the downstairs boys' apartment.

 

[Numbers]

Re this: perhaps partly because the issue didn't really speak directly to the non-guilt/innocence of Knox or Sollecito; and perhaps party because the defence teams dropped the ball (again) on this one........

I do hate to sound like I'm on endless repeat on this subject, but I firmly believe that Knox and Sollecito were really badly legally represented in the Massei trial - and "facts" established in the Massei trial eventually took several years to rectify and correct. Yes, I know the argument (to which I also subscribe) that the Massei trial was at least in part a stitch-up where the prosecutors had an unfair advantage in the eyes of the court. But I still think there were very many identifiable areas where the defence fell well short of a reasonable standard.

I don't know enough to say whether the defense legal teams did or did not perform at the highest level during the Massei trial.

I do know from reading the Google Translate of Giobbi's testimony that Bongiorno questioned him quite a bit about the downstairs flat and the blood there. That is where he stated that the blood on the light switch was due to the cat jumping. And he affirmed that his statement was not a joke.

My guess is that the defense did try to tie the downstairs evidence into the case, but that the prosecution witnesses (the police) were not forthcoming and so stymied this avenue of inquiry. Without the DNA profiles of the blood stains from downstairs, and the quite probably false and certainly not objectively demonstrated statements from the scientific police that the blood was from a cat, there may have been no way for the defense to fully explore the downstairs evidence.

 

[Dan O.]

Here's a google of Alice Puleo. I don't think this was Guede and the Nike shoes is just a coincidence.

POLICE HEADQUARTERS OF PERUGIA Division Police Anti-Crime Squad 3- Section
SUBJECT: Minutes of 5ommarie Information provided by: puled Alice born in ASSI5i (PG) en 09/24/1981, res. Perugia Via della Stella nr.7.-
The day 3.11,2007, cite 18.30 in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Police of Perugia. Next to the undersigned Official of the Judicial Police, Sov. Police 5tato Stefano GUBBIO the 41, in the service of the Office in which the header, and the person named in this object, the shares ° felt in merit to the facts being investigated by this Office, in effect Law, reports that: In the early afternoon yesterday 2 cm with my friend Massimo Cervini went alias laundromat via Fabbretti called "Laundry 67" to wash clothes.

I believe that is this laundry 67 which is on the route Rudy claims he took home after Meredith's murder.

 

[Kauffer]

IIRC, didn't Guede, in one or more of his statements to police, say that he had stopped by the downstairs flat while he was waiting for Meredith to come home for their date, and that he knocked but the downstairs boys were not home. He did not state that he entered downstairs. He also, IIRC, stated that he had heard noises that seemed to come from downstairs.

Of course, I don't accept Guede's statements as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but I agree with the suggestion that he was covering up his visit(s) downstairs in his statements to police.

If Guede had entered the downstairs flat to steal, was there any evidence of his searching it for cash or valuables? The mess seems more related to the hypothesis that he went downstairs to finish cleaning up and even perhaps obtaining a change of clothing (trousers/pants). I recall Diocletian's post that an art exhibit ticket had been found in Guede's apartment that could have come from the downstairs boys' apartment.

I wonder if there might be evidence of rummaging after all. Could there have actually been a theft downstairs that never came to light in the midst of all the confusion and crime scene sealing? Diocletus' point about the art ticket is a very good one. There are a number of questions that ought to have been put that probably never were, the answers to which would have thrown more light on this case, perhaps some very decisive light - the art ticket is one of them.

Not everyone here agrees, however, that Guede went downstairs.

 

[Kauffer]

Here's a google of Alice Puleo. I don't think this was Guede and the Nike shoes is just a coincidence.

POLICE HEADQUARTERS OF PERUGIA Division Police Anti-Crime Squad 3- Section
SUBJECT: Minutes of 5ommarie Information provided by: puled Alice born in ASSI5i (PG) en 09/24/1981, res. Perugia Via della Stella nr.7.-
The day 3.11,2007, cite 18.30 in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Police of Perugia. Next to the undersigned Official of the Judicial Police, Sov. Police 5tato Stefano GUBBIO the 41, in the service of the Office in which the header, and the person named in this object, the shares ° felt in merit to the facts being investigated by this Office, in effect Law, reports that: In the early afternoon yesterday 2 cm with my friend Massimo Cervini went alias laundromat via Fabbretti called "Laundry 67" to wash clothes. I think I arrived at approximately 13.30 to 45. Together with my friend we did we start cycle of the washing machine and shortly after we brought ally pizzeria located adjacent to the cut. we returned a few minutes later and noticeda girl in the laundry room and a foreign national. Questiultimo out at our arrivo_ With this girl we commentctto ii strange behavior deilo foreigner. In fact, the same reported that just before the stranger had come cilia laundry staggering, putting clothes in the washing machine, including brand NIKE shoes of those came after blu_ Paco and remained stuck in the front door but freed immediately. Even Massimo and I we went out waiting cycle levaggio, remaining in areas, we came back and shortly after he fell cliche. W e have noticed that moved the clothing washer to the dryer. At the same time called for a token cilia girl to complete the drying operation, after she left. The girl there reported seeing the individual, rummage net dumpster in front of the laundry, along with his compatriot. I finished washing my ii greeting the girl I came out with Massimo. He points out that the girl remained inside in how much he had finished his laundry ii. Describe the stranger: Height approximately 1.75, medium build, short hair blacks, wearing a light jacket light brown with zippo, light pants like jeans, wore a baseball cap with visor, dark, sneakers, cctrnagione olive, definitely Maghreb. A.D.R. sumption Ia stay in the laundry, did not receive any phone calls on a cell phone. A.D.R. He had no obvious sign net wine or Nelie hands, I think I'm able to recognize it. Facto Ietto confirmed and signed. sumption Ia verbate and drafting of this CERVINI Massimo born Perugia en 08/04/1984, res. Via Assisana Nr.49 who attended as narrated by the young and confirms in every part of the deposition.

Wasn't this all about trying to implicate Amanda? A story purporting to be about Amanda and Guede, subsequently abandoned when the timeline didn't fit? Weren't the guilters going on about this for a while?

 

[Dan O.]

I wonder if there might be evidence of rummaging after all. Could there have actually been a theft downstairs that never came to light in the midst of all the confusion and crime scene sealing? Diocletus' point about the art ticket is a very good one. There are a number of questions that ought to have been put that probably never were, the answers to which would have thrown more light on this case, perhaps some very decisive light - the art ticket is one of them.

Not everyone agrees, however, that Guede went downstairs.

There certainly could have been a theft. I wouldn't put it past the Perugia police to routinely steal small valueless items from a crime scene to plant on suspects.

What about the pants that the ticket was found in: we're they the proper size for Rudy? We're they stained with blood or sufficiently soiled to prevent him from wearing them dancing the next couple of nights instead of his pajama bottoms?

Back to the ticket, could this have been an event that Meredith attended and left the ticket in her purse with her cash?

 

[Kauffer]

There certainly could have been a theft. I wouldn't put it past the Perugia police to routinely steal small valueless items from a crime scene to plant on suspects.

What about the pants that the ticket was found in: we're they the proper size for Rudy? We're they stained with blood or sufficiently soiled to prevent him from wearing them dancing the next couple of nights instead of his pajama bottoms?

Back to the ticket, could this have been an event that Meredith attended and left the ticket in her purse with her cash?

Yes, it could have been. But wasn't it held in a different city? Of course, if we could link the ticket to an event attended by one of the boys, it would be very good evidence indeed. Interestingly, most of the answers to the questions you ask and other questions too, are knowable, if, as yet, not known.

 

[Dan O.]

Yes, it could have been. But wasn't it held in a different city? Of course, if we could link the ticket to an event attended by one of the boys, it would be very good evidence indeed. Interestingly, most of the answers to the questions you ask and other questions too, are knowable, if, as yet, not known.

As far as I know, this ticket is like the bleach receipts.

 

[Numbers]

There certainly could have been a theft. I wouldn't put it past the Perugia police to routinely steal small valueless items from a crime scene to plant on suspects.

What about the pants that the ticket was found in: we're they the proper size for Rudy? We're they stained with blood or sufficiently soiled to prevent him from wearing them dancing the next couple of nights instead of his pajama bottoms?

Back to the ticket, could this have been an event that Meredith attended and left the ticket in her purse with her cash?

IIRC, the ticket was from an exhibition (Chagall?) in Rome from before either Amanda or Meredith were in Italy.
Was there clear evidence that one or more of the boys downstairs had been to that exhibit?

 

[Dan O.]

IIRC, the ticket was from an exhibition (Chagall?) in Rome from before either Amanda or Meredith were in Italy.
Was there clear evidence that one or more of the boys downstairs had been to that exhibit?

And kept the ticket stub in their pants pocket for 2+ months?