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Angelika Graswald

anglolawyer said:
On the question of the confession, I would be surprised if she were guilty and confessed. If you have what it takes to plan and execute a murder and recover yourself so much afterwards as to be happy about it, I can't see what a few hours in police custody could do to penetrate the defences. She isnt young and vulnerable, nor is she in an overly alien environment. I want to see the terms and circumstances in which she supposedly confessed and the text itself of course.
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Maybe she's thick or has mental health issues.

Incidentally, how do you know she isn't vulnerable?
 
Chris_Halkides said:
I would like to hear a recording of the putative confession.
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This. No recording should mean a disputed confession is dumped.

shuttlt said:
Apparently he capsized and wasn't wearing a life jacket in freezing choppy water.
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Sounds more like natural selection.

shuttlt said:
Honestly, I don't see why one would be particularly disposed to see this as a miscarriage of justice. If he drowned, it looks as if it may well have been through going out without a lifejacket in freezing water in a kayak that had a hole in it. It doesn't seem like a great stretch for her to engineer those circumstances if she put her mind to it. We'll have to see what evidence they have. For her sake, I hope she has stronger arguments than it all being down to her poor English.
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That's just a tad lower than "beyond reasonable doubt". Hell it's not even a reasonable suspicion.
 
What has reasonable doubt got to do with anything? I'm not interested in whether she did it, and haven't argued that she's guilty.
 
shuttlt said:
Maybe she's thick or has mental health issues.

Incidentally, how do you know she isn't vulnerable?
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Well, not obviously vulnerable. Not young, for example. Maybd she was putty in their hands and confessed to a string of other crimes before they begged her to stop. All I'm saying is there is nothing about her AFAIK that would suggest someone incapable of withstanding the rigours of a lawful interrogation.
 
I put almost no value to unrecorded confessions
Even recorded, they can try to twist one word.
Look at the case of James Braton and one word and one snitch convicted him.
I believe he is also innocent.
 
I realize they frequently aren't recorded, but are we sure that it wasn't in this case? I haven't seen any positive statement one way or the other.
 
Samson said:
From the thread so far, she is a feisty smooth talking and very articulate young woman. I am amazed any one could have suggested her language fluency was a factor.
However, her behaviour afterwards suggests innocence not guilt. Very remniscent of Knox, Lundy, Casey Anthony*, unless double bluffing all the way.
I think 50/50 is a good call so far.

* Casey Anthony comes into orbit because her child's death was almost certainly accidental, so behaviour is difficult to parse.
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I don't how you come to the side of innocence as far as her behavior goes. Going to bar singing /karaoke or similar is not something I was in the mood to do for weeks when I lost my girlfriend to cancer decades ago.

Sure people react differently but most people which I know grieve, do not go entertain themselves in such a way within a tenday.

At the very least even if you do not hold that this suggest culpability, this does not suggest innocence in any way shape or form. At most you can only say "we don't know".
 
Desert Fox said:
I put almost no value to unrecorded confessions
Even recorded, they can try to twist one word.
Look at the case of James Braton and one word and one snitch convicted him.
I believe he is also innocent.
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Like the disputed Reid process. That with a foreigner which is not very fluent in the language could do the trick. But they would have recorded the confession in such case.

Or the police misunderstood her.

Or she did indeed confess and did the did.
 
shuttlt said:
Is she not fluent in English?
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I have a boss who is from Norway although she has been in the country for decades and is pretty much fluent. Still, there are little idiosyncrasies which could create confusion.
 
It's possible for native speakers to misunderstand things as well. Having said that, I'm curious what that error was that caused her to accidentally confess to murder. Doubtless it will be a while before we find out. Anyway, I was just reacting to the "not very fluent" statement in a previous post. At the moment I don't think it is obvious that she is not very fluent.
 
Some interesting bits and pieces in this article from the Daily Mail.

Her boat capsized and she was treated for hypothermia. She was rescued. She took 20 minutes to call 911. But wait. Why didn't the rescuers call 911? She allegedly told police she was glad when he drowned. She is a weirdo who seems very happy to be in prison etc etc. His body has not been found. I didn't know that.
 
anglolawyer said:
Some interesting bits and pieces in this article from the Daily Mail.

Her boat capsized and she was treated for hypothermia. She was rescued. She took 20 minutes to call 911. But wait. Why didn't the rescuers call 911? She allegedly told police she was glad when he drowned. She is a weirdo who seems very happy to be in prison etc etc. His body has not been found. I didn't know that.
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I believe his body was found.
 
anglolawyer said:
Some interesting bits and pieces in this article from the Daily Mail.

Her boat capsized and she was treated for hypothermia. She was rescued. She took 20 minutes to call 911. But wait. Why didn't the rescuers call 911? She allegedly told police she was glad when he drowned. She is a weirdo who seems very happy to be in prison etc etc. His body has not been found. I didn't know that.
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The Mail is all over the place. They have been claiming that the witnesses saw her pushing him in. Everybody else has been saying that the witnesses saw her jumping in ending her 911 call.

You seem to be making some assumptions here:
1. The rescuers were the witnesses.
2. That the rescuers weren't the emergency services.
3. That nobody apart from her called 911.
I don't recall having seen anything that makes any of this clear.
 
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Some interesting things in this article in The Inquisitor.

Graswald didn’t call 911 until 7:40 p.m. She remained on the phone and said she could still see the struggling man. Operators lost contact with her. Apparently, she claimed to have then capsized.
However, police say at least one unnamed witness gave another account. They claim to have seen Graswald intentionally capsize her own kayak. Later, when speaking to investigators, she admitted to the inconsistency in her statement. She claimed to have done so because she wanted it to appear as if she tried to save the drowning man. She led police to the scene, where they recovered two kayaks, but the man’s body was not found.

She called 911 then capsized?
 
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shuttlt said:
It's possible for native speakers to misunderstand things as well. Having said that, I'm curious what that error was that caused her to accidentally confess to murder. Doubtless it will be a while before we find out. Anyway, I was just reacting to the "not very fluent" statement in a previous post. At the moment I don't think it is obvious that she is not very fluent.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique

read up on the reid technic it is a process where the polcie present you a story and give loaded question to ask you as if it could ahve wen this way, and when you agree they coerce out of you a confession it did go that way.

"The idea is that the person under interrogation must catch the hidden assumption and contest it to avoid the trap. "

I can see a foreigner which is not a natural in english falling in that trap easily.

Notably the original conviction where this was used fist was overturned.
 
anglolawyer said:
It looks like she did not actually confess so much as say she felt good when he died.
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Which is unhelpful for her cause. Her American English is flawless, so regrettably this thread will probably retire without a sustainable notion of innocence.
Still, did she expect to succeed? If guilty she deserves to be on DesertFox's latest thread.
 
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