Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

But we have already established your error here! And you still can't get it.

Amanda did not bang on Kercher's door until her second visit after the break in is discovered. That is the first game changer. Now, Amanda has clear, objective evidence that something is definitely wrong at the flat, which cannot be interpreted innocently. There's been a break in. That Romanelli calls Amanda before Amanda could call her about the break in is incidental.

If Amanda had wanted to hide anything from Romanelli, she would not have called her after her first visit to the cottage. The effect of Amanda calling Romanelli is that Romanelli becomes alarmed. A guilty Ananda would know this is a possibility and would not have contacted her at all. She did not know where Romanelli was! It could have been that she was 2 minutes away and might have descended on the cottage at any moment. She has already made Romanelli aware of "strange things".

Get your facts straight once and for all.

That is a poor argument. Filomena had to discover her room had been trashed sooner or later. As Amanda was pottering around there all morning the first question anyone would ask is, "What stopped you letting me know about the state of my room? You didn't mention it to me until the police were drawing up and I had to ring you!"

IMV The lack of urgency or alacrity is because Raf and Amanda already knew Mez was dead.

 

[Grinder]

That is a poor argument. Filomena had to discover her room had been trashed sooner or later. As Amanda was pottering around there all morning the first question anyone would ask is, "What stopped you letting me know about the state of my room? You didn't mention it to me until the police were drawing up and I had to ring you!"

IMV The lack of urgency or alacrity is because Raf and Amanda already knew Mez was dead.

And what explained the lack alacrity for the PP (who also knew the phones had been tossed)?

Why do you think that they didn't wash away the blood spots in the sink area? Those are the one pointed out to the PP. They weren't in the cottage when the PP arrived so clearly they had plenty of time to remove the spots with a wet tissue and a quick flush.

 

[RoseMontague]

I already reproduced for you the TIMES early report the police told their reporter they arrived just as a washing machine cycle was ending.

Here is the court testimony.

Prosecutor - Did you see if there was a washing machine function? WITNESS - No. (Michele Battistelli)

He asks the other cop (Fabio Marsi) the same question. WITNESS - I did not notice at the time.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...scariniA-BiscariniF-Zaroli-Altieri-Grande.pdf

 

[Grinder]

Here is the court testimony.

Prosecutor - Did you see if there was a washing machine function? WITNESS - No. (Michele Battistelli)

He asks the other cop (Fabio Marsi) the same question. WITNESS - I did not notice at the time.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...scariniA-BiscariniF-Zaroli-Altieri-Grande.pdf

Also the PMF reporter, stewarthome2007(sp?) much to the members' chagrin, including Rag, told them that the Italian word meant damp not warm. Something close to humid.

There is absolutely no mention in Massei of the machine's condition on Nov. 2

 

[Vixen]

And what explained the lack alacrity for the PP (who also knew the phones had been tossed)?

Why do you think that they didn't wash away the blood spots in the sink area? Those are the one pointed out to the PP. They weren't in the cottage when the PP arrived so clearly they had plenty of time to remove the spots with a wet tissue and a quick flush.

These are spots the perps obviously overlooked. Amanda herself calls it "just a speck".

The perp knew it was Mez' blood so possibly too dumb to care. After all, Amanda scraped the blood on the faucet with her nail.

There is no such thing as the perfect crime. All perps leave some clue or other. The more arrogant they are, the more we can see a signature, as it were.

 

[anglolawyer]

And what explained the lack alacrity for the PP (who also knew the phones had been tossed)?

Why do you think that they didn't wash away the blood spots in the sink area? Those are the one pointed out to the PP. They weren't in the cottage when the PP arrived so clearly they had plenty of time to remove the spots with a wet tissue and a quick flush.

I am chyming in here. Vixen already explained those. Like the footprint and the faeces, these were bits of evidence deliberately left behind to keep everybody straight.

 

[Vixen]

These are spots the perps obviously overlooked. Amanda herself calls it "just a speck".

The perp knew it was Mez' blood so possibly too dumb to care. After all, Amanda scraped the blood on the faucet with her nail.

There is no such thing as the perfect crime. All perps leave some clue or other. The more arrogant they are, the more we can see a signature, as it were.

ETA Why flush? The toilet was left unflushed, especially.

 

[Vixen]

Here is the court testimony.

Prosecutor - Did you see if there was a washing machine function? WITNESS - No. (Michele Battistelli)

He asks the other cop (Fabio Marsi) the same question. WITNESS - I did not notice at the time.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...scariniA-BiscariniF-Zaroli-Altieri-Grande.pdf

That's selective reporting, as there is no doubt still damp clothes were found in the machine.

 

[Vixen]

I am chyming in here. Vixen already explained those. Like the footprint and the faeces, these were bits of evidence deliberately left behind to keep everybody straight.

Ding, ding! The penny's dropped. The bells in Heaven are chiming!

 

[Grinder]

These are spots the perps obviously overlooked. Amanda herself calls it "just a speck".

The perp knew it was Mez' blood so possibly too dumb to care. After all, Amanda scraped the blood on the faucet with her nail.

There is no such thing as the perfect crime. All perps leave some clue or other. The more arrogant they are, the more we can see a signature, as it were.

But she took the PP to them immediately. She knew they were there.

They cleaned away their DNA in way no one noticed but left blood on the sink?

No if they had done a more perfect crime they would have left their phones on and at Raf's, gone to Gubbio in the morning and have started a two hour movie before leaving the house. On return they would have sent out emails. They wouldn't both have hung out in the Plaza naked and bloody as you have suggested but rather would have suck back to Raf's to send a text or email.

But the fact is clear that they knew the blood was there and if your theory that AK was bleeding that night is true she would have wiped away the drops in 10 seconds and flushed the toilet. They would have disposed of the bath may with their bloody clothes, shoes and knives.

How'd you like the magazine? Great writer, huh?

 

[RoseMontague]

That's selective reporting, as there is no doubt still damp clothes were found in the machine.

It's a washing machine (not a dryer). LOL.

 

[Grinder]

ETA Why flush? The toilet was left unflushed, especially.

Not that one D V

 

[Grinder]

That's selective reporting, as there is no doubt still damp clothes were found in the machine.

Read Massei

 

[Vixen]

But she took the PP to them immediately. She knew they were there.

They cleaned away their DNA in way no one noticed but left blood on the sink?

No if they had done a more perfect crime they would have left their phones on and at Raf's, gone to Gubbio in the morning and have started a two hour movie before leaving the house. On return they would have sent out emails. They wouldn't both have hung out in the Plaza naked and bloody as you have suggested but rather would have suck back to Raf's to send a text or email.

But the fact is clear that they knew the blood was there and if your theory that AK was bleeding that night is true she would have wiped away the drops in 10 seconds and flushed the toilet. They would have disposed of the bath may with their bloody clothes, shoes and knives.

How'd you like the magazine? Great writer, huh?

There is no doubt at all the hallway and bathroom floor were cleaned. There is always something missed. In this case, the footprint on the bath mat and mixed Amanda-Mez DNA.

No doubt there is a clever defense ploy played to the hilt (no pun intended) that anything could be explained away as, "ah, but Amanda lives here".

The police have seen it all before.

Semantics might be fine for a forum, but cops tend to be very savvy.

We have all had times when one's pet dog is surrounded by ripped up magazines, chewed up paint cans and furniture. They look up at you with big cute eyes. "Who me?"

Not fooled!

 

[Bill Williams]

That is a poor argument. Filomena had to discover her room had been trashed sooner or later. As Amanda was pottering around there all morning the first question anyone would ask is, "What stopped you letting me know about the state of my room? You didn't mention it to me until the police were drawing up and I had to ring you!"

IMV The lack of urgency or alacrity is because Raf and Amanda already knew Mez was dead.

1) This is confirmation biased reasoning. You first have to demonstrate that they knew she was dead, before making that assumption about, "lack of urgency or alacrity". First of all, you have it the wrong way around.

2) Second of all, your reasoning is suspect-centric. Everyone at the scene (with the possible exception of Filomena) showed the same level of urgency and alacrity..... when I pointed this out about the postal police, you shifted gears by saying I was now "shifting blame to the police."

Your view is wrong and demonstrably wrong. You are still under the assumption, proven wrong, that Amanda tried to look into Meredith's room from the outside at her 10:30 visit back to the cottage. You've been corrected on this numerous times, yet still include that in your reasoning.

 

[Bill Williams]

There is no doubt at all the hallway and bathroom floor were cleaned. There is always something missed. In this case, the footprint on the bath mat and mixed Amanda-Mez DNA.

No doubt there is a clever defense ploy played to the hilt (no pun intended) that anything could be explained away as, "ah, but Amanda lives here".

The police have seen it all before.

Semantics might be fine for a forum, but cops tend to be very savvy.

We have all had times when one's pet dog is surrounded by ripped up magazines, chewed up paint cans and furniture. They look up at you with big cute eyes. "Who me?"

Not fooled!

Vixen - the post quoted is not fit for a skeptics forum.

 

[Bill Williams]

Follain? Or just voices?

Not Follain. As for voices.... you never really know!

 

[Vixen]

It's a washing machine (not a dryer). LOL.

From trial testimony 6th & 7th Feb 2009:


-----
The communication police noticed that there was a washing machine in operation and they could hear the noise of the centrifuge. Soon after, the mobile-squad police found that the machine had finished its work a few minutes earlier, and the clothes were still warm.

Filomena testified that the washing machine was still warm when she returned to the cottage and that it contained some of Meredith’s clothes.

------

Source TJMK Peter Quennell

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...f_the_testimony_on_6_february_and_7_february/

 

[Vixen]

1) This is confirmation biased reasoning. You first have to demonstrate that they knew she was dead, before making that assumption about, "lack of urgency or alacrity". First of all, you have it the wrong way around.

2) Second of all, your reasoning is suspect-centric. Everyone at the scene (with the possible exception of Filomena) showed the same level of urgency and alacrity..... when I pointed this out about the postal police, you shifted gears by saying I was now "shifting blame to the police."

Your view is wrong and demonstrably wrong. You are still under the assumption, proven wrong, that Amanda tried to look into Meredith's room from the outside at her 10:30 visit back to the cottage. You've been corrected on this numerous times, yet still include that in your reasoning.

Bill I have patiently pointed out, in the whole of the three hour window, Amanda did not call the police once.

When the postal police turned up they testified the pair looked surprised to see them.

The washing machine had just come to the end of its cycle - with Mez dead at least 14 hours before - and Amanda had a mop.

To preclude all this, Amanda had to construct a convoluted story in her email home. Unfortunately, her claim she was frantically worried about Mez, isn't borne out by her behaviour.

 

[js202]

It's a washing machine (not a dryer). LOL.

It's been quite a while since I looked at the crime scene photos of the washing facilities in the cottage, but, for what it's worth, combination washer/driers - which rely upon the same drum for both functions - are, in my experience, rather common in Europe as compared to the States.