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Adnan Syed - Serial / Undisclosed

Desert Fox

Philosopher
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Adnan Syed - Serial / Undisclosed Podcasts

Anybody been listening to "Undisclosed" podcast?

They are doing a very good job of shredding the prosecution / police case.
Episode Two destroyed the timeline used
Episode Three shows that it appears that Jay was coached by the police and the storyline is the police not his.
 
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Is this different from the original Serial podcast? I'm not familiar with the "undisclosed" in the title.

If it's the original, I listened to the lot and found it compelling. I believe that there is more than reasonable doubt about the conviction.
 
Undisclosed is actually more technically and while the podcast lacks Serial's polish, has more actually dissection of evidence.
 
I suppose the cops coached Jay Wilds etc., but I can have no reasonable doubt Syed did this murder. Wilds spent that day with Syed, and he was able to take police to the victim's car. That is a core of fact that won't budge.

Wilds was far more involved than he has ever admitted. He told a phony story that made him an accessory instead of a conspirator. That is why the pay phone never existed, and a timeline based on his story does not work. But the basic narrative of killing the girl, moving her car, and burying her body holds up.
 
I suppose the cops coached Jay Wilds etc., but I can have no reasonable doubt Syed did this murder. Wilds spent that day with Syed, and he was able to take police to the victim's car. That is a core of fact that won't budge.

Wilds was far more involved than he has ever admitted. He told a phony story that made him an accessory instead of a conspirator. That is why the pay phone never existed, and a timeline based on his story does not work. But the basic narrative of killing the girl, moving her car, and burying her body holds up.

There are three possibilities (that I can think of) which do not support Adnan's guilt.
1. Her car had unrepaired damage - he could have spotted the car.
2. Jay did it himself.
3. The police found the car previously and they fed him the information.

The next half episode is apparently going to argue that Jay did not know where the car was.
 
There are three possibilities (that I can think of) which do not support Adnan's guilt.
1. Her car had unrepaired damage - he could have spotted the car.
2. Jay did it himself.
3. The police found the car previously and they fed him the information.

The next half episode is apparently going to argue that Jay did not know where the car was.

Anything is theoretically possible. I'm considering what is most likely, which is as follows: Syed planned and committed this murder and enlisted Wilds as an accomplice. Wilds told his friend immediately after it happened. The police caught up with her because of cell phone records. She consulted a lawyer, who advised her to divulge what she knew and accompanied her to the police interview. The police went to Wilds, who eventually told a story that was a blend of truth and self-serving fiction. He then took police to the car and cooperated so as to keep himself out of prison.

That fits the evidence, and it fits the nitty-gritty world of criminal behavior as I understand it.

I could be convinced that something else happened, but I would need to see a credible theory supported by evidence, not just "anyone but Syed" speculation.
 
Anything is theoretically possible. I'm considering what is most likely, which is as follows: Syed planned and committed this murder and enlisted Wilds as an accomplice. Wilds told his friend immediately after it happened. The police caught up with her because of cell phone records. She consulted a lawyer, who advised her to divulge what she knew and accompanied her to the police interview. The police went to Wilds, who eventually told a story that was a blend of truth and self-serving fiction. He then took police to the car and cooperated so as to keep himself out of prison.

That fits the evidence, and it fits the nitty-gritty world of criminal behavior as I understand it.

I could be convinced that something else happened, but I would need to see a credible theory supported by evidence, not just "anyone but Syed" speculation.

I am not sure how much of that is post hoc. I have a feeling that the whole narrative we have been given is just wrong.

If he did not know where the car was found, would that change your position?
 
Undisclosed is put on by 3 people who are extremely biased toward Syed's innocence. If you feel they are "putting on a good case" then you haven't read up on the prosecution's case and/or looked closely at the evidence. Rabia Chaudry will flat out lie and obfuscate to make Syed appear innocent to anyone unfamiliar with the facts of the case.
 
I am not sure how much of that is post hoc. I have a feeling that the whole narrative we have been given is just wrong.

If he did not know where the car was found, would that change your position?

Certainly it could. What is the evidence police knew where the car was before they talked to Wilds?
 
Certainly it could. What is the evidence police knew where the car was before they talked to Wilds?

I think we will find out at least what the argument is next week since they are suggesting that is teh next subject to be discussed.
 
Undisclosed is put on by 3 people who are extremely biased toward Syed's innocence. If you feel they are "putting on a good case" then you haven't read up on the prosecution's case and/or looked closely at the evidence. Rabia Chaudry will flat out lie and obfuscate to make Syed appear innocent to anyone unfamiliar with the facts of the case.

Did the state ever admit that they were going after an innocent man with David Camm?
 
I suppose the cops coached Jay Wilds etc., but I can have no reasonable doubt Syed did this murder. Wilds spent that day with Syed, and he was able to take police to the victim's car. That is a core of fact that won't budge.

... the basic narrative of killing the girl, moving her car, and burying her body holds up.

The cell phone evidence doesn't show that they spent the day together. It shows that for about an hour and a half in the late morning (11 - 12:30) they were together, and again for about two hours in the evening (5:50 pm - 8 pm).

That's it. An hour and a half in the morning, two hours in the evening. They didn't spend the day together.

There's strong evidence that Wilds' testimony about the events of the afternoon were crafted to match the cell tower records the police were showing him. During one interview they showed him a map with a tower incorrectly located, and he gave them a story about where he was with the phone when that tower was pinged. After they realized their mistake, they showed him a corrected map, and he gave them a story to match that one.

Why should any of his testimony be taken at face value?

The police believed that the key to the case was two incoming calls to Syed's phone just after 7 pm, both of which pinged a cell tower near the burial site.

That evidence lost a lot of its value recently for two reasons. One is that Wilds himself said in an interview last December that the burial took place "closer to midnight" and admitted to lying during the trial. The other is that the autopsy photos show that the victim was lying face down for 8-10 hours before she was placed in the shallow grave on her side.

So the burial site cell tower pings at 7 pm don't mean what the jury was told they mean. The victim was alive at 2:20 pm. She wasn't buried on her side 5 hours later, or the autopsy photos would show it.

Wilds also testified in court that his normal routine took him past the place where the victim's car was found . . . meaning that he didn't have to be involved in the murder at all to know where it was.

If you read the statements Wilds gave about the burial, you'll find a variety of colorful and self-contradictory details. I don't think there is a true story of that burial in which Wilds and Syed are together, because if there were it would be simple to tell. Instead Wilds changes it up over and over.

That can't be to protect himself or anyone else, because according to him only the two of them were there. Whatever happened to the victim, it doesn't seem to have any relationship to what the State presented in court, or to any of the stories told to detectives in an apparent effort to support their theories.
 
The cell phone evidence doesn't show that they spent the day together. It shows that for about an hour and a half in the late morning (11 - 12:30) they were together, and again for about two hours in the evening (5:50 pm - 8 pm).

That's it. An hour and a half in the morning, two hours in the evening. They didn't spend the day together.

There's strong evidence that Wilds' testimony about the events of the afternoon were crafted to match the cell tower records the police were showing him. During one interview they showed him a map with a tower incorrectly located, and he gave them a story about where he was with the phone when that tower was pinged. After they realized their mistake, they showed him a corrected map, and he gave them a story to match that one.

Why should any of his testimony be taken at face value?

The police believed that the key to the case was two incoming calls to Syed's phone just after 7 pm, both of which pinged a cell tower near the burial site.

That evidence lost a lot of its value recently for two reasons. One is that Wilds himself said in an interview last December that the burial took place "closer to midnight" and admitted to lying during the trial. The other is that the autopsy photos show that the victim was lying face down for 8-10 hours before she was placed in the shallow grave on her side.

So the burial site cell tower pings at 7 pm don't mean what the jury was told they mean. The victim was alive at 2:20 pm. She wasn't buried on her side 5 hours later, or the autopsy photos would show it.

Wilds also testified in court that his normal routine took him past the place where the victim's car was found . . . meaning that he didn't have to be involved in the murder at all to know where it was.

If you read the statements Wilds gave about the burial, you'll find a variety of colorful and self-contradictory details. I don't think there is a true story of that burial in which Wilds and Syed are together, because if there were it would be simple to tell. Instead Wilds changes it up over and over.

That can't be to protect himself or anyone else, because according to him only the two of them were there. Whatever happened to the victim, it doesn't seem to have any relationship to what the State presented in court, or to any of the stories told to detectives in an apparent effort to support their theories.

Well, look. What no one disputes is that Wilds had Syed's car and phone for much of the day and was using both, Wilds and Syed were together for at least part of the day, and Syed's phone connected with a tower near where the body was found, on the evening the girl went missing.

So what do you think happened?

Did Wilds kill this girl himself or with a different accomplice, and Syed just happened to wander in and out of the frame without any involvement? If so why did Wilds kill her?

Or do you think someone else killed her and Wilds just made up a story from the whole cloth, and he happened to have spotted the car by coincidence?
 
I know that it is kind of an argument from authority but it looks like the innocence project is willing to consider him innocent based on what they see. . . .I do not believe they will take a cause unless they believe a defendant is probably innocent.
 
I know that it is kind of an argument from authority but it looks like the innocence project is willing to consider him innocent based on what they see. . . .I do not believe they will take a cause unless they believe a defendant is probably innocent.
Can you give a link to the website that has taken the case?
 

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