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Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Yes premedication is difficult because;
1) Knox expected to work that evening,
2) Sollecito was expecting to have to go and pick up a bag from the bus station,
So they were both 'busy' until around 20.40.
3) They had no way to contact or contact with Guede
4) Kercher's movements were unknown; they would not know when she would return home, if she would be alone,
5) Knox did not know the movements of her other flat mates and the boys in the flat below

The timescale allows minutes to develop the idea, recruit Guede (with no means of contacting him), all the time not knowing where Knox might be, or with whom. Then Curatalo has to be fitted in.
Knox would assume everyone knew it was a holiday tomorrow, because she did. She also knows that Meredith is a party girl, and there was a long weekend ahead. There is thus a vanishingly small chance for her to expect to attain any murdering satisfaction that particular evening.

Having said all that, and given the case is closed (except here), I hope all internet sleuths will start analysing behaviour before the crime, and after the crime, of the suspects in other cases.
There is no doubt in my mind that it is impossible for anyone to maintain credible suspect status when all actions and activities before and after the crime are analysed with a common sense approach.
 
Here's the photo of the bloody tissue mentioned the other day.
 

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I see that in a statement to the cops, Patrick claims to never having met Meredith. So much for the pro-guilt myth that Patrick had hired her and Amanda was out for revenge. Another one bites the dust.
 
I see that in a statement to the cops, Patrick claims to never having met Meredith. So much for the pro-guilt myth that Patrick had hired her and Amanda was out for revenge. Another one bites the dust.

Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? To cover up his part in the murder. Oh wait.
 
I previously referenced another murder case where a completely separate set of police did the same thing. This makes me think there is a problem with their standard methodology or equipment.

Does "standard methodology" include intentionally destroying exculpatory evidence to secure criminal convictions?

Because that does seem to be a recurrent pattern.
 
The knife and the bra clasp. That's two. I bet I've been Ninja'd (haven't read all the new posts yet).

So they planted an amount of DNA so small it needed to be destroyed to test?

The clasp if planted was weeks later and certainly wouldn't prove an early on conspiracy. For many reasons I find it the most likely plant.
 
Does "standard methodology" include intentionally destroying exculpatory evidence to secure criminal convictions?

Because that does seem to be a recurrent pattern.

I asked before. What could have been on any of the fried computers that would be exculpatory?
 
So they planted an amount of DNA so small it needed to be destroyed to test?

The clasp if planted was weeks later and certainly wouldn't prove an early on conspiracy. For many reasons I find it the most likely plant.

I don't know how many times I have to say it. Nothing was 'planted' if you mean by that 'daubed on the bra hooks or knife blade'. Stefanoni produced a couple of graphs, that's all. Such is my theory. And either my theory is correct or she did indeed hole her second to the 18th to make the play off and then hole in one at the first extra hole.

Since you are famous for being certain they are innocent, what do you think the odds are that just about the only knife they tested, which, you say, had nothing whatever to do with the crime, showed up an incriminating profile?

The cops don't know how to do LCN 'planting' but Stef knows that LCN = unrepeatable and that's how she fixed it. IMHO.
 
I asked before. What could have been on any of the fried computers that would be exculpatory?

Documented activity on the computers on the night of the crime further stregthening their joint alibi. Raf claims this in his book.

Friendly pics of girls having fun destroys the lie there was tension, ill will, jealousy or any if the test of Mignini s horse crap.
 
The WriteProtect(tm) adaptor that the postal police were using is intended to protect the evidence drive from inadvertently being overwritten. It has a single data cable that attaches to the bare disk drive after it had been removed from the computer. There is no way to have plugged in multiple drives in parallel.

And, as you all know, all of these drives whether they are IDE/ATA or Serial ATA have standard connectors for both power and data. They can only be connected one way. So how do you fry them? Faulty tester? Are you able as an operator to change the voltage level or polarity on the power cable?

He was either very incompetent or very competent depending on his motive.
 
Documented activity on the computers on the night of the crime further stregthening their joint alibi. Raf claims this in his book.

What activity?

Friendly pics of girls having fun destroys the lie there was tension, ill will, jealousy or any if the test of Mignini s horse crap.

No pics wouldn't prove anything except they took pictures. What did they use t take these pictures? Phone? Camera? Why weren't they posted on MySpace?

So the PP somehow knew the contents would be exculpatory and destroyed them on their own because they wanted to convict innocent people?
 
TBH I don't know. I don't know enough about the regular process of DNA profiling to know how to spot its subversion. Stefanoni could be sitting on the EDFs on principle rather than because they give the game away. Diocletus, Chris and Kaosium are the goto guys on this.

It seems that these fine posters, each and every one, has cleaned up the cheeseburger wrappers beside their computers, switched the damn things off, climbed out of their basements and discovered that there is a world out there.

You'd think this case had ended in total and complete exonerations.

Me, as long as mom keeps brewing the coffee and tossing the food into the basement, I am good to go. (The bare light over the stairs has long since burned-out, but the glow of the computer screen has always provided that comforting soft glow..... except that time I reached for the WD-40 instead of the coffee. We won't talk about that one.)
 
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I don't know how many times I have to say it. Nothing was 'planted' if you mean by that 'daubed on the bra hooks or knife blade'. Stefanoni produced a couple of graphs, that's all. Such is my theory. And either my theory is correct or she did indeed hole her second to the 18th to make the play off and then hole in one at the first extra hole.

Fine she used techniques that are so poorly done even I can understand they are bogus in order to "plant" evidence instead of just smear a little of MK's blood on the knife, okay.

Since you are famous for being certain they are innocent, what do you think the odds are that just about the only knife they tested, which, you say, had nothing whatever to do with the crime, showed up an incriminating profile?

High enough to violate protocols for LCN testing particularly since plenty of MK's DNA had been in the lab. If believe the odds are so low as not to be possible then she didn't need to worry about LCN protocols.

Are you now going to become famous for agreeing with Novelli that contamination must be proven?

The cops don't know how to do LCN 'planting' but Stef knows that LCN = unrepeatable and that's how she fixed it. IMHO.

LCN doesn't mean unrepeatable. Why wouldn't they put abundant blood near the hilt and have full blown DNA on it that would allow all data records to be released.

It is still a requirement for more than one test when LCN is the size of sample.
 
I don't know how many times I have to say it. Nothing was 'planted' if you mean by that 'daubed on the bra hooks or knife blade'. Stefanoni produced a couple of graphs, that's all. Such is my theory. And either my theory is correct or she did indeed hole her second to the 18th to make the play off and then hole in one at the first extra hole.

Since you are famous for being certain they are innocent, what do you think the odds are that just about the only knife they tested, which, you say, had nothing whatever to do with the crime, showed up an incriminating profile?

The cops don't know how to do LCN 'planting' but Stef knows that LCN = unrepeatable and that's how she fixed it. IMHO.

There seems to be confusion between "official misconduct" and "framed" and also between "false evidence" or "misleading evidence" and "planted evidence".

1. Knife blade DNA
The LCN claimed associated with the knife blade was not necessarily on the knife blade, and was not necessarily planted. It could have been a contamination event of the kind that would be likely to occur in a lab that was not well-maintained with respect to freedom from contamination. In this hypothesis, many other samples would have been shown to contain low levels (LCN levels) of Meredith Kercher's DNA, had the EDFs been made available. In this hypothesis, the electropherograms shown for samples tested and made available to the defense were scaled to either not show or, in the case of the knife blade, to show this lab contamination. This would be the reason that EDFs of controls, including negative controls, were not provided.

The quantification results actually provided by Stefanoni did show DNA contamination of at least one control, but there were no profiles provided for the controls. In an honest and forthcoming forensic DNA lab, the EDFs (which show all DNA profile raw data detected) of all samples and controls would be provided. There is likely to be a reason they were not in this case. Based on sample numbering, there may have been a secret retest of the knife, with no information provided on the original results.

2. Bra clasp DNA
For the bra clasp, based on sample numbering, there may have been a secret retest, with no information provided on the original test. The DNA on the bra clasp (if any was indeed present) was destroyed by storage at room temperature of the clasp in a sealed tube containing extraction fluid. Persons with minimal training in the field of DNA technology would recognize this storage method as one leading to the degradation (break-down) of the DNA. (An analogy would be the thorough shredding of a document, separating each letter of each word of each sentence, resulting in a random collection of letters which could not be reassembled into the original text.)

One possible motivation for this destruction of the DNA on the clasp would be that the results presented in the electropherogram provided to the court and the defense did not represent what a fairly-obtained one would show. That is, suppose that the bra clasp only had Kercher's DNA on it, and that somehow the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito, and perhaps inadvertently that of several other males, was added to the sample in the lab. (This could have been a contamination event or an intentional fraud.) The lab technician responsible fo this hypothetical "mix-up" would not want a retest done, which might be incriminating to the technician and cast doubt on the validity of the (alleged) evidence as presented by the lab.

ETA: For the bra clasp, it could have been that there was a DNA contamination event before the clasp reached the lab, but the technician was not confident that a retest would support the "official" lab finding. This could be, for example, if one hook but not the other was contaminated with Sollecito's DNA, as a result of, for example, the (notoriously unprofessional and contrary to international standards) evidence collection technique.
 
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I asked before. What could have been on any of the fried computers that would be exculpatory?


A time stamp showing Raffaeles other computer, the one Jovanna saw Amand using to access her Gmail account, was in use during the murder window.

A QuickTime movie that Meredith started recording from the built-in camera on her laptop just after getting home that night but was never closed so doesn't appear in the files directory.

The contract that Filomena negotiated with Rudy to simulate a break-in and steal her laptop and the foreign girls rent monies so she could claim the loss on their renters insurance and get a real computer. (note that Filomena's hard drive may have been toasted before handing it over to the police).

Amanda's essay on how to commit the perfect murder showing that she is way smarter that the police made her out to be.
 
And, as you all know, all of these drives whether they are IDE/ATA or Serial ATA have standard connectors for both power and data. They can only be connected one way. So how do you fry them? Faulty tester? Are you able as an operator to change the voltage level or polarity on the power cable?

He was either very incompetent or very competent depending on his motive.


We have been over this extensively in earlier cycles of this thread. There are two keys on the IDE connector where it attaches to the drive. A tab on top that fits a cooresponding notch in the drive connector and a missing pin on the drive side that corresponds with a filled hole in the cable connector. The 2.5 inch laptop drives (which this is) has power delivered in the same cable. It is possible if someone was trying to save money to construct a cable using a generic connector that has neither of these protections.

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Grinder said:
I don't know how many times I have to say it. Nothing was 'planted' if you mean by that 'daubed on the bra hooks or knife blade'. Stefanoni produced a couple of graphs, that's all. Such is my theory. And either my theory is correct or she did indeed hole her second to the 18th to make the play off and then hole in one at the first extra hole.

Fine she used techniques that are so poorly done even I can understand they are bogus in order to "plant" evidence instead of just smear a little of MK's blood on the knife, okay.
Even you? Someone who joined a skeptics forum and has followed and contributed to minute discussion of these issues for years? You know perfectly well that for most people, DNA = guilty.

Since you are famous for being certain they are innocent, what do you think the odds are that just about the only knife they tested, which, you say, had nothing whatever to do with the crime, showed up an incriminating profile?

High enough to violate protocols for LCN testing particularly since plenty of MK's DNA had been in the lab. If believe the odds are so low as not to be possible then she didn't need to worry about LCN protocols.

Are you now going to become famous for agreeing with Novelli that contamination must be proven?
It's funny you should ask this question because I can well imagine Stef falling back on contamination and her own incompetence to fend off the juicy collection of charges I have in mind for her. If contamination explained the knife result and the bra clasp result too, surely we would expect to find it everywhere, not just on the two most suspicious and incriminating items imaginable.

The cops don't know how to do LCN 'planting' but Stef knows that LCN = unrepeatable and that's how she fixed it. IMHO.

LCN doesn't mean unrepeatable.
In our case, it does mean precisely that.

Grinder said:
Why wouldn't they put abundant blood near the hilt and have full blown DNA on it that would allow all data records to be released.
Because less is more. What they did worked all the way as far as Nencini. Give them some credit.

Grinder said:
It is still a requirement for more than one test when LCN is the size of sample.
Tell that to an Italian court.
 
I asked before. What could have been on any of the fried computers that would be exculpatory?

Destroying potential exculpatory evidence has the same benefit to the prosecution as the failure to estimate a relatively accurate time of death. It allowed the prosecution flexibility in constructing a case out of false and irrelevant information.
 
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