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Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Samson, how does your theory work if Amanda and Raffaele never left his apartnent that evening/night?

What language did Amanda and Rudi communicate in?
Well it is of course not my theory, but Michaels from dotnet. I thought it seemed to match Vixen's thoughts so I dragged it from the archives. I am spending a great deal of time trying to comprehend the willingness of the crowd to espouse the impossible crime theories prosecution hoaxes get by the masses. There is more to Michael from the same series.

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Sollecito's role certainly wasn't limited to after the fact. Far too much time would have passed for Knox to get herself sorted out, cleaned up, got back to his apartment, spent the time offering her explanation of what had happened, then convincing him to help her clean-up/stage the crime scene, then come to a plan of action of how they were going to do it, then get themselves over to the cottage most likely by a circuitous dark route so they were seen by as few people as possible, then case the scene to make sure nobody has stumbled on to what had happened, then examine the scene to finalise ideas about what they needed to do and anything else you can think of. By all this time, the blood would have been dry, too dry for Sollecito to get so much blood on his foot to leave that print on the mat. That print was left during or immediately following the murder when the blood was wet, which places Sollecito there during the murder. Moreover, at least three people were heard running from the scene. Finally, at least two people would have been holding Meredith while someone (I'm guessing Knox) was standing in front of her teasing/torturing her with the knife (when the victim received the very shallow knife defensive wounds to her hands).

I also don't think Sollecito was a passive follower, I think he was more keen then that. I believe the murder to have been premeditated, one of the key things demonstrating that for me is the fact they went there with knives and in addition, why did Sollecito need to get his knife out when one was enough? It wasn't necessary. It was overkill. Meredith could have been threatened with the one knife, tortured with the one knife, murdered with the one knife. Since when are two knives needed for one person, especially when the victim is unarmed and there are three of you there to restrain them and one of you has a bloody great kitchen knife? It speaks to me of Sollecito being an active and eager participant from the get-go, not a passive follower. And the usage of the two knives tells me that from the very beginning of the attack, the intent was for Meredith to be dead by the end of it.

The two knives also suggest to me a prearranged "pact" for a perverse shared intimate experience between Knox and Sollecito, that they would both land the final blows together, upheld by the fact of the deep wound on one side of the victim's neck from Sollecito's knife and a much deeper wound still on the other side from the Knox wielded kitchen knife, Knox being the one that wanted to give the coup de grace. Importantly, Guede was clearly not part of this pact since he did not have a knife. And that fact is very telling about the dynamic of what went down.

Consider...if one knife was considered not to be enough and you're going to use two knives, why not then therefore use three knives? One knife would make sense. Three knives would make sense - three attackers, one knife each. Two knives, when looked at from a purely practical perspective, do not make sense. That's because the two knives were not used out of any practical need. Neither does it make sense if the intent was only ever to scare Meredith. Certainly, having three people with three knives would have a scarier effect then three people with two knives between them. If you want to scare, why go up to two knives but not go up to three, especially if there's three of you to wield them?

Two knives do make sense, when one considers that they were used as part a pact for a special, intimate shared thrill between two lovers. Guede sexually assaulted the victim, but the pact between Knox and Sollecito forbade each other from directly sexually interacting with their victim (they would have considered it cheating on each other). But, they did perform a sexual act, psychologically. Their (permissible between them) sexual act was to symbolically rape their victim by penetrating her with their knives. The ancient Roman short sword used by the Roman legionaries was called the gladius. It was the same word for penis. The Romans saw them as symbolically being the same thing, only one penetrates for love and the other for war. Or consider the not unsubtle sexual symbolism of the vampire who orgiastically penetrates their victim's neck with their fangs. After all, and it's an important point, if the intent was simply to kill her alone, why then not dispense with knives and use a far less bloody and more practical method, especially when you're killing your victim in your own home...a cord for strangulation? It would have been more practical and far less mess would have been made, with far less evidence to manipulate or get incriminated by. The choosing of the knives was deliberate, considered, and tells me they didn't simply want it to be terrifying and brutal, this wasn't just about getting rid of someone one of them didn't like (although, it was also that, it's why Meredith was chosen). It was also a psycho-sexual thrill kill between lovers who wanted to symbolically sexually penetrate (rape) her together in the final moments, their sexual climax.

This narrative tells us something else important. Guede was very deliberately not given a knife before the attack. This tells us that Rudy wasn't simply excluded directly after the attack. He was excluded, by design, before the attack even began. Although, he almost certainly didn't realise this. This pact and exclusion was worked out before even reaching the cottage and that pact was only ever designed to end in one thing...Meredith's murder. This was a planned premeditated murder by Knox and Sollecito.

An extra: Also consider this. Knox and Sollecito both performed the clean-up/staging while barefooted. This was so as not to leave shoe prints and to not get evidence on their shoes that would be extremely difficult to remove. NOW, here's the kicker...they also launched their attack on Meredith while both barefooted. They prepared, before the attack, by taking their shoes off. This was done for exactly the same reasons they took their shoes off for the cleaning/staging hours after the murder. Meredith's death was planned before the attack even began and the only reason for them to take off their shoes was to avoid the copious amount of blood they knew was going to end up on the floor. Note: And again, Rudy was excluded from this. He was shod. They were quite happy for him to keep his shoes on.

End Quote.

I am dealing with a similar situation in New Zealand at the moment, where a man who led a blameless life is accused by a public and high profile psychologist, indeed a television star, Nigel Latta, of slaughtering his wife and child. He has predated the man's psychology to make sense of a calculated plan to kill his wife and 7 year old daughter, in order to find a young woman to share a dream life on a vineyard.
Needless to say, his involvement was less likely than Knox/Sollecito in this crime, yet he is the most hated man in New Zealand, and reconsigned to a 22 year lag, from which he will not escape, because he must show remorse.

Mark Edward Lundy.
 
Spontaneous statement by Mauro Palmieri in Rome (where he lives)
He received an SMS 31-Oct-2007 with the text “For me tomorrow or this evening Meredit dies” – note Meredith’s name was mis-spelled.
He didn’t know the number that sent it. He deleted the text and so wasn’t able to say what the number was.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...ess-deposition-Mauro-Palmieri-SMS-message.pdf

Was this not shown to be a spoiler being passed around about a popular TV program, Greys Anatomy, where a character named Meredith actually does get killed off?
 
This was shown to be a reference to a character in a TV soap opera IIRC.

Yep yep. Just working though them one by one.

There's also 19 new police reports from 2007: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/case-files-reports/

They haven't been OCR'd so not machine readable. Hopefully we can get em translated at some point.

And there's an Italian Interior Ministry murder of Meredith Kercher notification to the Kercher family, the British consulate and a UK detective. http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...Kercher-family-UK-consultate-UK-detective.pdf
 
Was the Detective by any chance, French?

Yep yep. Just working though them one by one.

There's also 19 new police reports from 2007: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/case-files-reports/

They haven't been OCR'd so not machine readable. Hopefully we can get em translated at some point.

And there's an Italian Interior Ministry murder of Meredith Kercher notification to the Kercher family, the British consulate and a UK detective. http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...Kercher-family-UK-consultate-UK-detective.pdf

Wonder if the UK detective had any insight as to whether it was a single burglar perp surprised in the middle of a job, or a multi-party satanic tinged orgy game gone horribly wrong related to rites of Halloween?

There has to be some explanation for the absence of rational input to the Kerchers and the UK.

Is it all the pull of the tabloids, fueled by the lies of the prosecution, that takes hold and sets public opinion? I've heard commentators on BBC refer to how 'Amanda accused an innocent man' as an indication of, or to insinuate guilt or "knowing more".

So who was the detective, what did he think and say, and did he have any influence in the Kercher's perceptions or in the media?
 
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Well it is of course not my theory, but Michaels from dotnet. I thought it seemed to match Vixen's thoughts so I dragged it from the archives. I am spending a great deal of time trying to comprehend the willingness of the crowd to espouse the impossible crime theories prosecution hoaxes get by the masses. There is more to Michael from the same series.

. . .

Samson, my appologies. I thought what you posted was your own belief as to what occurred. :o If it was your own belief, I could not understand why such a perceptive thinker was expelled from .org . They should have invited you to be on their editorial board.
 
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Yep yep. Just working though them one by one.

There's also 19 new police reports from 2007: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/case-files-reports/

They haven't been OCR'd so not machine readable. Hopefully we can get em translated at some point.

And there's an Italian Interior Ministry murder of Meredith Kercher notification to the Kercher family, the British consulate and a UK detective. http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...Kercher-family-UK-consultate-UK-detective.pdf

The CCTV one is interesting, google translation of a passage

I later acquired by the command of the traffic police in Perugia some CD containing copies of the images, recorded on 1 and 2 November, from fixed cameras situated in Piazza IV Novembre, Via Dei Priori, Piazza Matteotti, Piazza Danti, Piazza Fortebraccio, and Porta Pesa Piazza Grimana, the analysis of this material is not allowed to see pass the aforementioned Meredith .------------
Were acquired, also, the images of the cameras positioned inside the parking lot of St. Anthony Street, which is just in front of the house of Meredith. -------------------
In particular, I paid attention, dry recorded images from the camera No. 7, for the period of time of 20.30 on Nov. 1 - 01.00 hours the next day, since these shots allowed to monitor, albeit partial, View ' darkness and Ia camera position, the home of Meredith I'entrata ,. Point out that the dry batteries 20:51:34 20:51:35 we see a person dressed in light colored clothing, walking on the ato opposite the entrance to the car park. The images do not allow to identify .-------------

I wonder where these cameras are positioned?

ETA, 1st portion...looks like he took the route he thought Meredith would have taken.

The year 2007 addi 04 of November in the offices of the Flying Squad
Police of Perugia .---------------------------------------------- ----------------
The undersigned Ass.te Cape Barbadori Mauro, in service at the Office indicated in epigraph, referring alia sv as follows: -------------
In connection with the death of Meredith Susanna Cara KERCHER general and other acts, dry summary information provided by the English town Sophie Purton born on 23/01/1987 in England, which reported '' ... until about 21:00 we leave the house and walk We walked together in Via del Roscetto where I l 'I left to go to my home in Via Del Lupo, while she went to get her home ...; --------
In the light of the foregoing, I have walked the walk the same stretch of
road, starting from Via Bontempi, along Via Del Roscetto, pausing for a moment in front of the 'entrance of Via Del Lupo, and continuing until the beginning of Via Pinturicchio I turned left in the direction of Piazza Grimana rna 50 meters before I turned right along ladders Via Degli Scortici, are then arrived at the entrance of the house of Meredith in Via Sant'Antonio. To cover the entire journey took about 1 0 minutes, and precise Iungo the way there are cameras installed in fixed or mobile. --------------
 

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Hope this isn't off-thread, but Mach has repeatedly raised the specter of the masons, their influence over the judiciary (I think claiming Hellman was a member?), as well as Spezi's involvement somehow, and so on.

And then there is this recent story from California that I can't stop looking at, concerning a fake mason police force, that has to be seen to be believed. It's a weird world full of conmen, although this includes a woman who seems just as batty).

Is Mingini any nuttier for fighting a holy war against such fantastical enemies?

Anyway, this article from the Guardian, cites a masonic expert who refers to the P2 scandal in Italy, which has entangled Burlesconi and other well connected people tangentially to this case.

Here's an excerpt, the link, and a photo of one of the 'masonic police', which I find seriously unsettling:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-kamala-harris-aide-fake-masonic-police-force

48f066f3-975e-4cef-99bd-c5145ea18d4a-620x372.jpeg


UCLA professor Margaret Jacob, an expert on Freemasonry, said by email that she had never heard of either Sir Brileys Knights or Lady Jewel of the Nile and “doubt[ed] very much they are part of established and recognized freemasonry”.

She added: “There have been these sorts of hoax groups, or rogue forms of freemasonry in many places and times.”

She gave the example of the Propaganda Due, commonly called P2, scandal in Italy in the 1970s, when a pseudo-Masonic lodge with well-connected members was accused of crimes and political corruption.
While the lore surrounding Freemasonry is deep and full of conspiracy theories, experts say that there have never been any rumors of a police force existing within it.

“I can’t imagine there is anything of the sort,” said Steve Bolluck, a professor of history at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts and the author of Revolutionary Brotherhood, a history of early Free Masons in America.

“It’s really bizarre.”

Maybe Mach can help illuminate, the illuminati.
 
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Here's a few summaries of those new witness statements:

(...)

Elizabeth Lana: The bomb call came from the number 075-45159 which is a Fastweb number (fixed line) which is a Perugia number. She said the caller was male, it was received at 22:00, probably between 30 and 40 years old, and he had an accent that had a slight hint of Indian. The caller said "THERE'S A BOMB IN YOUR TOILET DON'T DO A WEE DON'T FLUSH AND GET OUT OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE IT COULD EXPLODE". In recent times they had often received calls, even during the middle of the night, where either the call when picked up would make a series of beep sounds and other times, especially during holiday periods, calls where the caller said nothing and put down the phone after they picked up, as if they were checking anyone was home. They had been burgled in the past, in 2003 and 2004 and another attempt in 2006. She doesn't say how long it took the Police to come and check nor does she mention their names. They checked inside the house and in the garden.(...)

I think that must be the number that received the call? When googled it appears to be the number of BISCARINI DR. LANFRANCO. 075 45159 Via Sperandio 5/BIS 06125 Perugia

https://www.google.se/?gws_rd=ssl#q=075-45159
 
Wonder if the UK detective had any insight as to whether it was a single burglar perp surprised in the middle of a job, or a multi-party satanic tinged orgy game gone horribly wrong related to rites of Halloween?

There has to be some explanation for the absence of rational input to the Kerchers and the UK.

Is it all the pull of the tabloids, fueled by the lies of the prosecution, that takes hold and sets public opinion? I've heard commentators on BBC refer to how 'Amanda accused an innocent man' as an indication of, or to insinuate guilt or "knowing more".

So who was the detective, what did he think and say, and did he have any influence in the Kercher's perceptions or in the media?

Here's a little biography of Nick Scola from 2014

NICK SCOLA
Nick has recently retired after serving 35 years with the Metropolitan Police Service, latterly as a Detective Chief Inspector. He spent the last ten years of his police career with the Homicide and Serious Crime Command leading major and often high-profile homicide investigations. He was the Senior Investigating Officer heading the team investigating the disappearance of 12 year old Tia Sharp in August 2012, with Detective Inspector Kate Wilson as his deputy. He was also heavily involved in the first MPS double jeopardy conviction after changes to the Criminal Justice Act in 2003, culminating in the successful prosecution in 2009 of Mario Celaire for the murder of Cassandra McDermott in October 2001.

Nick Scola considers the most complex investigation he led to be the contract killing of special constable Nisha Patel but takes most pride in convicting those responsible for the deaths of David Morley in 2004 and Jody Dobrowski in 2005 who were beaten to death for no reason other than their sexuality.

In recognition of his achievements he was recently awarded Senior Investigating Officer of the Year at the ACPO Senior Investigating Officers conference, a fitting recognition by his peers of his many qualities as a senior police officer. Nick has now been chosen to join the Iraq Historic Allegations Team, established in November 2010 by the Ministry of Defence. This appointment readily demonstrates that after an outstanding police career Nick is still committed to using his skills and expertise for the benefit of the criminal justice process.

http://www.bafs.org.uk/index.php/events/past-events
 
Apparently even prank phone callers are doctors :p

(I know it's the receiving number)

Yes, of course. :)

Still, the police must surely know the calling number. I think I asked - or only meant to ask perhaps - Machiavelli if he had any information if they ever released anything more specific about that the alleged prank caller from Rome.

Like others I misstrust the coincidence here, but I don't see the possible benefit for the police to lie about it either. I have seen there are some theories, but not entirely convincing ones.
 
Well it is of course not my theory, but Michaels from dotnet. I thought it seemed to match Vixen's thoughts so I dragged it from the archives. I am spending a great deal of time trying to comprehend the willingness of the crowd to espouse the impossible crime theories prosecution hoaxes get by the masses. There is more to Michael from the same series.

Quote:


Samson, you may be on shaky ground with these quotes. Years ago, probably before your time here, there was another guilter by the name of Fulcanelli who claimed that .net was his website. Since he is not Peggy, that means he is probably Michael. One of the forum rules is that we are not permitted to import arguments from banned members. I think you should be asking a moderator or administrator for clarification on this point before continuing to post these quotes. Also, since Vixen is a current member here, any similarity between Vixen's posts and Michael's would be a forum management issue involving either plagerism of copying another's work as one's own, importing arguments of a previously banned member or being a sock of that previously banned member.
 
I am taking a survey of posters here who have been expelled from another Kercher murder site such as .org?

So far, we have:
LondonJohn
Samson
Planigale
Anglolawyer

Any more?
 
I am taking a survey of posters here who have been expelled from another Kercher murder site such as .org?

So far, we have:
LondonJohn
Samson
Planigale
Anglolawyer

Any more?

I was expelled from TJMK in late 2011 after 7 posts for saying that the break-in through Filomena's window was eminently doable. Oh yes, I misspelled "homocide". When one regular poster said that it was too bad that "FOAKers always flee", another regular noted that I had complained about being expelled on another service. Quennell then denied that the account had been suspended.
 
Oh yes, I used the word "guilter", which at that early stage I believed was a neutral term describing one of the sides. Quennell accused me of being a Bruce Fisher sock-puppet, I was barely aware that Fisher was the proprietor of the IIP service. It became clear after that that I was entering into a debate with hermetically sealed sides to it, and eventually chose one of them - of course, chosen solely "on the evidence". Then they all say that don't they.

Marriott pays us to put it that way.
 
OK one last one.... I used to read vociferously on PMF, barely aware that at that time there were two of them. There seemed to be no difference, really, between .NET and .ORG (now closed) - esp. in the early days of 2010.... which both .NET and .ORG preserved as "their own". (Pre-March 2011 there was only one PMF anyway, and both the sites retained copies of that posting history!)

Peggy (of .ORG) and Michael (of .NET) eventually let the lid on their mutual truce blow off in 2012 and it became apparent that behind the scenes (in March 2011) there'd been a coup attempt over control of the PMF brand, and ownership of the "I care for Meredtih more than you do" claim.

I'm afraid I got sucked into that vortex - in the years I've been online there'd been nothing like it. IIP managed to catalogue the invective thrown between the competing "I care for Meredith more than you" sites and the various posters as they chose up sides. One of the funniest posts was when a .NUTter accused Peggy of being on the Marriott payroll!

All this is to say, that I never registered at either of the PMFs. When traffic got low on .NUT Michael initiated a FOAKer-Tuesday, where he'd allow posts from FOAKers, although he did not specify which time-zone would be the standard for the day. What happened is that many would post over there, then .NUTters would spend 6 days ridiculing the posts! Again, that is completely unprecedented.....

Following the PMFs has generated many WTF-moments, a sideshow to the horrible events of Nov 1, and the wrongful prosecutions spawned by Mignini....
 
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....
There's also 19 new police reports from 2007: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/case-files-reports/

....

Question:
To whom would Stefanoni be required to disclose her reports and results, besides, under legal obligation from the CCP, PM Mignini? Would VQA Giobbi or VQA Profazio or any of the other Perugia police have been informed? The point is, how large and knowing was the "conspiracy" or team effort for official misconduct in this case, and which of the police were aware of the objective evidence of guilt of Rudy Guede and lack of evidence of guilt (or innocence) of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito (and Patrick Lumumba)?

ETA: For clarity, I mean to whom among the police would she be obligated to share her reports and results under police and prosecution procedures. In this case, Convention and Italian law were violated by not fully sharing the reports and results with the defense.
 
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Question:
To whom would Stefanoni be required to disclose her reports and results, besides, under legal obligation from the CCP, PM Mignini? Would VQA Giobbi or VQA Profazio or any of the other Perugia police have been informed? The point is, how large and knowing was the "conspiracy" or team effort for official misconduct in this case, and which of the police were aware of the objective evidence of guilt of Rudy Guede and lack of evidence of guilt (or innocence) of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito (and Patrick Lumumba)?

IMO the way the RIS Carabinieri reported to the Nencini court is the model that should have happened with Stefanoni at the Massei trial.

The RIS Carabinieri simply brought everything with them as part of their report to the court, which became available to both sides upon acceptance by the court. IIUC this also included all the raw data, so that both sides could make of it what they would.

This is called transparency.

Machiavelli used to argue that it was the courts' responsibility to enforce Stefanoni's lack of disclosure.... and then when a poster would then show how a judge erred in letting Stefanoni get away with things, Mach would devolve into saying, "Well, the defence never objected." When a poster here would show that, in fact, the defence objected all the way along, Machiavelli just went silent.

This is called a lack of transparency on the part of the court.
 
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