Looking for Skeptics - Continuation (Cassidy's EVP/diamond damage claim)

[bluesjnr]

I would think if your spooks had the ability to change the inside of a diamond to something else they would be able to change the entire diamond to something else or at least be able to levitate the diamond.

Your spooks suck. They don't even aspire to doing something measurable for the million dollars. Your spooks will rightfully stay in spook oblivion unless you come up with a measurable way the spooks can be verified.

There is absolutely no need for this.

 

[Daylightstar]

No idea, I sent an application form off and was emailed by Krysyn Lambert 7 weeks later. Before I forwarded a suggested test she requested, I asked if it was possible to have the equipment delivered to a JREF rep here in the UK for inspection. I didn't receive a reply.
...

Sending equipment to a jref rep in the UK (if one even existed) for inspection is totally pointless.
If electronic equipment needed to be 'inspected', it would need to be done by a knowledgeable technician or two covering a range of technologies.

You'd need to pay for that ....

...
The files are 25 to 30 seconds long.

Not how long, how large.
100Kb? 500Kb? 1Mb?
How large is your clearest example file with the journalist?

 

[Cassidy]

So Cassidy can produce unusual sound files? Is that it? Why would she win a million dollars for that?

I wouldn't want to hand over a million dollars for that either, but based on past tests, the "noise" can actually introduce itself and hold a conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKkJ9WlUESI

 

[Daylightstar]

...
If disappearing noises can win the million, it should take a matter of 30 seconds to win it.
...

In spite of earlier confirmations, you can forget about that.

 

[Daylightstar]

I wouldn't want to hand over a million dollars for that either, but based on past tests, the "noise" can actually introduce itself and hold a conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKkJ9WlUESI

Unfortunately for you, this is not self evident.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

You are acting like her lawyer that she never requested. She claims the spirits do the work. She isn't backing away from that -- why are you?

I'm not backing away from anything. I'm pointing out that how she thinks what she believes she can do is accomplished is irrelevant to whether or not she actually can do what she believes she can do. The MDC is only interested in the latter. Saying otherwise is factually incorrect.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The tone disappears every time (No external microphone) I get best results using a 60 or 70hz. The results range from:
A) The tone disappears and my voice can be clearly heard.
B) The tone disappears and a voice can be heard but cannot be understood.
C) The tone disappears and the words I've said completely alter.

I never know which result it will be, but the tone disappears every time.

Are you saying that my suggested protocol is one that could be used to judge your claim, or are you saying that it is not?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

[...]I asked if it was possible to have the equipment delivered to a JREF rep here in the UK for inspection.

You do understand that you will have to pay for any and all equipment that is to be used, don't you?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

So Cassidy can produce unusual sound files? Is that it? Why would she win a million dollars for that?

The claim is that she can produce sound files that would be impossible to produce through any currently understood process.

 

[Cassidy]

Sending equipment to a jref rep in the UK (if one even existed) for inspection is totally pointless.
If electronic equipment needed to be 'inspected', it would need to be done by a knowledgeable technician or two covering a range of technologies.

You'd need to pay for that ....



Not how long, how large.
100Kb? 500Kb? 1Mb?
How large is your clearest example file with the journalist?

I doubt it takes an expert to unwrap a PC and check the recording app works good. If it costs, it has to cost.

Sorry the recording was for 11 seconds, and is 140KB

 

[Daylightstar]

The claim is that she can produce sound files that would be impossible to produce through any currently understood process.

Why would these sound files be impossible to produce through any currently understood process, how will this be self evident?

 

[Biscuit]

No, she doesn't need to prove that spirits exist. What she's described as happening with the recording of a constant noise vs. a series of short noises is physically impossible. If she could demonstrate that it happens then it should win the million.

She doesn't want to test the noise. She wants to prove that spirits can break diamonds.

That is, in fact, the point of the JREF challenge - it's to test specific claims, not to make declarations about the paranormal. If at some point in the future someone passes and wins the million (which, if enough people take the test, will be bound to happen eventually just by pure chance) then that will not demonstrate that how they believe something works is accurate, just that they could do what they claimed they could do under specific circumstances.

Neither of us speak for JREF however I have quoted from the FAQ on the randi.org page. Under protocols section 2.3

If you are submitting a claim that works off a previous assumption, you have to present evidence proving the assumption correct first.

The claim that spirits can break diamonds works on the previous assumption that spirits exist.

It seems pretty black and white to me.

Think of it this way - say the JREF tested 3 dowsers. 1 thought he was feeling magnetic fields that the water gave off, 1 thought it was a gift from God, and the third thought it was his great-uncle Bert guiding his hand from beyond the grave. To win the million these dowsers wouldn't have to prove that water gave off magnetic fields which were detectable by human senses, that God exists, or that physical interaction with people in the afterlife were possible. All they'd have to do is to find the water wherever it is in a properly controlled test.

This contradicts the FAQ on the randi.org website.

link

No, this is not the same thing. Cassidy's claim is not dependent on the existence of spirits, whereas the moustache man's claim is. If Cassidy can demonstrate an impossible claim then it doesn't matter whether or not she believes that it's spirits that are responsible, and passing the test won't say anything about the existence or otherwise of spirits.

According to Cassidy it is? What makes you think it isn't?

ETA: I see there is a confusion due to the number of claims Cassidy has made between sound files and breaking diamonds and her insistence on including both in the protocol however Cassidy has always claimed she has no paranormal abilities and has always claimed spirits do the work.

We need from her ONE claim. Spelled out clearly and without ambiguity so we can find out if it rest on a "previous assumption."

 

[Daylightstar]

I doubt it takes an expert to unwrap a PC and check the recording app works good. If it costs, it has to cost.
...

It'll require more than that.

...
Sorry the recording was for 11 seconds, and is 140KB

Alright, than you could put the audio in a zip file and attach it to a post made by you.
Zip file limit is 250Kb so you're good to go.

 

[Cassidy]

You do understand that you will have to pay for any and all equipment that is to be used, don't you?

Yes, I've financed the equipment, and likely need to hire a room of some sort too. I'm strapped for cash now, but I'm being financially supported for the rest of the way.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Hi Cassidy,

Two questions:

1. Why not just use bloodstones or something cheaper and easier? This will make the test much less expensive and it will allow you to get a lot more practice in before the test. Applicants almost never practice by doing self-testing before the big test. Then, they show up and there's all the extra pressure and they are nervous and things don't work out. Practice makes perfect, but that would take a lot of diamonds. We don't want to see you end up in the poorhouse, so if there's a cheaper alternative, I urge you to use it and practice, Practice, PRACTICE.

2. Who's the guy you had the £200 bet with? Could you convince him to join this conversation?

Thanks,
Ward

 

[Biscuit]

Straight from this post.

I'll need to wear the diamond ring, whilst connecting to the spirit.

It seems pretty clear there is a previous assumption.

Of course it's up to JREF if they want to make an exception.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Straight from this post.



It seems pretty clear there is a previous assumption.

Of course it's up to JREF if they want to make an exception.

They make this exception virtually every time they conduct a test.

Ward

 

[Biscuit]

and again here

I don't really see the difficulty in proving the transference of spirit activity into a PC, and then have them alter a diamond.

She is clearly claiming spirits alter the diamonds. How the spirits do it would not be the purview of the test. That spirits exist would be a previous assumption that violates the JREF's stated protocol.

 

[Biscuit]

They make this exception virtually every time they conduct a test.

Ward

But they don't make exceptions for every applicant and they give two examples of applicants who's applications were rejected based on previous assumptions.

What and for who they make exceptions for is up to them, obviously, I just wanted cassidy to be aware that they have already rejected applications that make the assumption spirits exist. It may be best to focus her energy on proving spirits exist rather than what spirits can do.

 

[Dumb All Over]

No, I've never experienced nothing supernatural til I hit 31.

So, you are saying you did experience something supernatural before the age of 31, right?