Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

That's not the issue. The issue is whether exhibit 36C (not 36) is a profile of tissue sampled from the blade of the knife.

No, the knife is exhibit 36. The traces of matter are assigned letters.

 

[Strozzi]

Diddly squat.

It is easier to go to the railway station or the pub - or even a shop [in England, we have shops that will "unlock" stolen mobiles and laptops for you] - and buy your cheapo laptop there.

No income tax. No VAT.

No questions asked.

Look, I am not saying Rudy did not steal the laptop himself. However, there is no compelling reason to reasonably believe he did.

I worked at a place where overnight, burglar s broke in and stole all the computers, hacking off cumbersome cables. It is a very common crime. It is a huge logic fallacy to boldly assert, "Rudy was responsible for all the laptop thefts in Perugia."

Vixen, the burglar who stole the laptop from the lawyers' office gained entry by throwing a rock through an upper window and climbing up to a 2nd floor balcony and in. A normal way would be to be standing on terra firma and throw the rock from there, so as to be able to flee if anyone responds. That would be more efficient and safe than climbing with a rock to the balcony and then whilst on the balcony throwing or using the rock to break the glass, for in that position the burglar is up on the balcony and could be compromised and trapped by anyone on the ground responding.

To do that, or some variant of that, requires the person to have several physical skills. He must be able to climb to the 2nd floor balcony, which suggests he is in physical shape to ascend (and descend) without a ladder. He must also be able to throw a rock a short distance, say 12' or 15', with some precision. Both skills are common among guys who are good basketball players. Good basketball players tend be a bit tall, tend to be slender, agile, and can probably toss an 8 lb. rock 10' or 15' with good aim.

If Rudi and Mignini were in a beauty contest to be chosen the better climber and rock thrower, I think Rudi would defeat Mignini who is much older and has a greater girth.

 

[Vixen]

The problem with this statement is that there is no way to date DNA. Amanda, unlike Rudy, had a perfect right to--and would be expected to--scatter her own DNA anywhere in her own home, at any time during her residence there.



All court verdicts that accepted the "staged burglary" have been overturned. So it is not established at all.

Amanda transported her own DNA to her own bathroom sink every day when she washed and brushed her teeth. "Mixed" just means it was collected together with Meredith's DNA in the swiping motions used by the technicians who collected it.

I am sure the Scientific Police bore all this in mind.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, the burglar who stole the laptop from the lawyers' office gained entry by throwing a Rick through an upper window and climbing up to a 2nd floor balcony and in. A normal way would be to be standing on terra firma and throw thr rock from there, so as to be able to flee if anyone responds. That would be more efficient and safe than climbing with a rock to the balcony and then while on the balcony throwing or using the rock to break the glass, for in that position the burglar is up on the balcony and could be compromised and trapped by anyone on the ground responding.

To do that, or some variant of that, requires the person to have several physical skills. He must be able to climb to the 2nd floor balcony, which suggests he is in physical shape to ascend (and descend). He must also be able to throw a rock a short distance - say 10' or 15' with some precision. Both those skills are common among guys who are good basketball players. They tend be a bit tall, tend to be slender, agile, and can probably toss an 8 lb. rock 10' or 15' with good aim.

If Rudi and Mignini were in a beauty contest to be chosen the better climber and rock thrower, I think Rudi would defeat Mignini who is much older and has a greater girth.

Someone wit

That's an interesting theory, Strozzi. However, the lawyers there believe their property was stolen by an agent looking for specific legal information.

Perhaps Rudy, drugdealer, drifter, police informer, cat burglar was also an agent for crooks who wanted to steal confidential legal data.

 

[Vixen]

No the defense agreed it was not Mez's DNA or at least it wasn't shown that it was connected to the murder or that it wasn't shown it wasn't from contamination.

Wrong. The defense were present when Stefanoni tested the sample and found Mez' DNA.

They did not challenge the DNA profile, as it was indisputable it was Mez' DNA with 15 matching allelles.

 

[Vixen]

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? I said that Rudy explained away the presence of so many computers by saying that he worked in IT. There was no truth to his claim.

His encounter with Giorgio Armani in Milan was a random occurrence.

Citation?

 

[Grinder]

It is common knowledge. Absedefghi (?) says they know the cop who issued the ticket.

Here is the text of the narrative, written by Seattle police officer Jason Bender:


In the city of Seattle

I was on uniformed patrol in the marked unit as 3U5. At approximately 0028 hours, I responded to the report of a loud party in the listed location. The complainant relayed to dispatch that participants from the party were throwing rocks at his house and at passing cars. The complainant requested officer not contact him. Upon arrival, I noted loud amplified music coming from the listed address. The music could be heard from a distance greater than 75 ft from the source. I also noted several rocks in the street. I did not locate any damage at that time. I contacted a party participant and had them retrieve a resident.

S1/Knox contacted me (in front of the house). She stated that she was one of the current residents. She stated that she was the one who was hosting the party (as she was moving out). She stated that she was not aware of any rock throwers at the gathering.

I issued S1/Knox this infraction for the noise violation and a warning for the rock throwing. I explained how dangerous and juvenile that action was.

See Cad event 264012 for further.

No further action taken at this time.

The report was retrieved by seattlepi.com reporter Levi Pulkkinen during early coverage of the homicide case.
​

Now what erroneous statements did you make. There was only one party not parties. She was not accused of rock throwing and there was no reports of serving cars. The street is narrow allowing only one lane of traffic and low speeds. Strangely no cars reported or were seen with damage. In fact the officer couldn't find any damage. The only reference to cars came from the anonymous caller.

ETA

By the same token you could argue Amanda has police tickets for wild partying and encouraging her guests to throw rocks at passing traffic, making cars swerve.

She had exactly one ticket on her record Nov. 1, 2007 not tickets (lie 1) She was accused of rock throwing (lie 2) there is no mention of cars swerving which in fact is impossible on that street (lie 3)

Pretty dense lying.

 

[acbytesla]

By the same token you could argue Amanda has police tickets for wild partying and encouraging her guests to throw rocks at passing traffic, making cars swerve. This is far more dangerous than being in possession of a stolen laptop, which is all Rudy had been charged with, prior to the murder. It is a mercy none of these drivers crashed and suffered injury and fatalities, some with young children as passengers, possibly.

Nobody here seems the slightest bit horrified by this behaviour, yet fixate on a stolen laptop as proof Rudy was lone perpetrator.

You can't be serious. This argument is ignoring the facts. Both about Rudy Guest and Amanda Knox and the singular ticket, not tickets, she received for holding a party that violated a noise ordinance. Amanda did NOT encourage anyone to throw rocks. There is also no evidence that any of the party goers actually did throw rocks.

The house where the party took place is abut a block away from Greek Row At the University of Washington. A very large University where more than 40, 000 students go to school. Most between the ages of 18 and 22. A lot of young men with lots of testosterone who have been known to raise some hell. It could have easily been one of the guys who came for the beer, rock band and the girls or it could have been any one in that neighborhood.

I threw many parties like that. As the host, you certainly can't be accountable for everyone inside your house, let alone people out in the street.

As for Rudy. You can say it doesn't matter, but you're really just putting your head in the sand. Rudy was caught in the nursery. A business that had been burgled just weeks before. He had no permission to be there. Just a wild claim that a person charged him IIRC 20 dollars to sleep there.

He was caught in possession of a knife stolen from the kitchen, a woman's gold watch that has since disappeared. Maybe the gold watch that was stolen from Rudy's next door neighbor Ms, Diaz just days before...we'll never know for sure. Also a laptop and a phone that had been stolen from a law office a few blocks from his apartment. These he claimed that he bought at the train station.

Sure, it's possible that he did buy them. But why? He had other computers at his house and he had very little money. Not even enough for a room for the night.

Raf, too, had a conviction for being in possession of drugs. Some would argue, buying illegal drugs - associated with serious organised crime - is equally as bad as someone buying stolen goods, if not more so.

Yet we only ever hear about one of the alleged perps. At Rudy's trial and at Massei and Nencini, it was not judged Rudy was the actual killer, nor that there was a burglary, other than the murder perps stealing Mez' cash, credit cards and mobile phones (x 2), strangely, for MO cat burglar Rudy, leaving the laptop completely behind.

That's because it matches Rudy's MO and there really is no evidence of any other perps. You sort of leave that out, don't you.

Consider:
Rudy's MO
Rudy's shoe prints.
Rudy's palm print
Rudy's DNA in places he had NEVER been before. (Upstairs in the cottage) on Meredith, inside Meredith.
Rudy fleeing the country after the murder.
Rudy's statements, not under duress, in a phone call with his friend.
The TOTAL lack of connection to Raffaele and an almost total lack of connection to Amanda.

Rudy's statements as to the time of the murder would exclude that Knox or Sollecito were involved.
Rudy's own voluntary statements that Amanda wasn't there and that he didn't know Raffaele.

At some point this adds up.

 

[Kauffer]

It is common knowledge. Absedefghi (?) says they know the cop who issued the ticket.

So now it's one ticket is it? Not tickets as you stated.

What was it for exactly? Different from what you stated?

What were the circumstances? What did the officer concerned say about it?

Was Amanda really accused and cited for encouraging others to throw rocks?

Why don't you find the actual evidence for what actually happened?

 

[acbytesla]

It is not a falsehood. It is my opinion and thus falls foul of forum rules to call everything I say a lie. It indicates someone unable to debate without getting personal.

So, all you are presenting are your opinions without facts? That since these are you opinions, they don't actually have to be based on the facts or evidence .

 

[Grinder]

Wrong. The defense were present when Stefanoni tested the sample and found Mez' DNA.

They did not challenge the DNA profile, as it was indisputable it was Mez' DNA with 15 matching allelles.

Happen to have a cite for that.

ETA - This is what you wrote:"The defense concurred and did not challenge that the DNA was not Mez'."

The defense did not challenge that the DNA was not Mez's they agreed that it was not a valid DNA of Mez because of all the scientific protocol errors made. Did Steffi find some DNA of Mez in the lab where Mez's DNA had been in volumes? Yes, but since adequate controls weren't in place it was most likely contamination and certainly not acceptable to present in a court of law. You should listen to the BBC series on DNA.

 

[Grinder]

So now it's one ticket is it? Not tickets as you stated.

What was it for exactly? Different from what you stated?

What were the circumstances? What did the officer concerned say about it?

Was Amanda really accused and cited for encouraging others to throw rocks?

Why don't you find the actual evidence for what actually happened?

Check, check check and check

 

[js202]

It is incontrovertible that a remarkably full DNA profile of Mez was found on the blade, notwithstanding from the striation marks, an attempt by someone to scrub it clean with possibly something like a Brillo pad (steel wool).

The defense concurred and did not challenge that the DNA was not Mez'.

Again, this is all dyed in the wool guilter mythology, with the fine care to invisible striations and "remarkably full" DNA signatures to the kitchen knife blade, etc. This is the stuff of Harry Rag.

So, in fact, you were not honest with your babe in the woods routine as you embarked upon this onslaught of posts, just days ago. Soon, in this brief period of time, you will have made more posts in this thread than I have made in four years. You are clearly an obsessive with a long background mulling over the minutiae of this matter.

 

[acbytesla]

I have indicated elsewhere why it is not true "there is no evidence of Raf or Amanda in Mez' room".

This is fallacious anyway, as the police treated the entire apartment as the murder scene.

Amanda, unlike Rudy, has a forensically proven presence in the burglary room.

There are two Amanda DNA traces in the burglary room mixed with Mez', which are highly incriminating, not explained away by "Amanda & Mez lived there".

A shard of glass from the burglary room - which has no forensic trace of Rudy - was deposited inside the locked murder room. This could only have been from the two perps at large, as forensics established the burglary was staged after the fact of murder to conceal the identities of the perps.

In addition, Amanda transported Mez' DNA from the murder room to the bathroom for her DNA is also found there, mixed with Mez'.

There is no innocent explanation for any of this.

Of course there is and it is nonsense and ignorant to claim that it is somehow incrimiating. Amanda lived there. Her DNA would be expected to be present throughout her entire apartment and it is entirely irrelevant that it is mixed with Meredith DNA or blood. Because you cannot date dna, there is no way to know when it was deposited. That day, the day before, the week before, the day after. There is no reason except confirmation bias to believe that there is more chance to be the result of it happening simultaneously or at different times.

 

[RoseMontague]

I am neutral. However, after a several hundred messages later, not one person has given me a clear solid reason or alibi that proves Raf and Amanda innocent.

The burden of proof is to prove guilt. I can't find a single person on the pro guilt side to even give a timeline for guilt that fits with the evidence.

 

[Sonia]

Citation?

We know his employment history from the interviews that Nina Burleigh did with members of the Guede family and the Caporali family, including Rudy's Aunt Georgette, who helped him get that last job in the cafe.

The Giorgio Armani photo with Rudy was snapped in a Milan bar owned by Armani, where he was known to pose with tourists.

The Armani Group actually went to the trouble of issuing a statement that Rudy Guede was unknown to Giorgio Armani and to the Armani Group. Their statement was picked up by many publications, including this one:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/me...d/2007/11/21/1195321812671.html?page=fullpage

 

[RoseMontague]

There is no physical evidence whatsoever of Rudy in the burglary room, yet you claim he was a cat burglar who came in through the window.

Why is there this inconsistency in your reasoning?

Who needs evidence of him in the burglary room when he admits it in his third interview with the cops. He even says he leans out the window. Too funny.

 

[RoseMontague]

Wrong. The defense were present when Stefanoni tested the sample and found Mez' DNA.

They did not challenge the DNA profile, as it was indisputable it was Mez' DNA with 15 matching allelles.

The defense consultant was present, yes. He said the result obtained was worthless and of no scientific value. This is in his report filed with the court.

 

[lonepinealex]

We know his employment history from the interviews that Nina Burleigh did with members of the Guede family and the Caporali family, including Rudy's Aunt Georgette, who helped him get that last job in the cafe.

The Giorgio Armani photo with Rudy was snapped in a Milan bar owned by Armani, where he was known to pose with tourists.

The Armani Group actually went to the trouble of issuing a statement that Rudy Guede was unknown to Giorgio Armani and to the Armani Group. Their statement was picked up by many publications, including this one:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/me...d/2007/11/21/1195321812671.html?page=fullpage

and this is even after ignoring the laughable idea of an "IT buff" with loads of computers but no internet connection.

 

[anglolawyer]

No, the knife is exhibit 36. The traces of matter are assigned letters.

But we are talking about the sample that allegedly came from the blade. That is 36C.