Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

It was actually established very early that Rudy Guede made the stain on the pillowcase and it has even been claimed that it was the forensic match to Rudy that led to his arrest and ultimate conviction. Like, hey stupid perp, don't leave your identity on the pillow under the victim that you rape and murder.

Rudy's identification came from his fingerprints on a database, as a foreigner.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the logical fallacy of special pleading

In his book Honour Bound, Raf himself confirms the defense did not want it tested in case forensics said it was him.

Given Stefanoni's many dubious actions, they were right to be concerned. However, your point is totally and utterly irrelevant. The FP should have tested it in the very first days of the investigation. Any argument to the contrary is special pleading.

 

[analemma]

Good grief! I thought it was a cow! This changes everything!

You are correct!!!!! It was a cow

Sorry for the mistake.

I hope that sustituting a hippo fopr a cow does not result in the overturning of the annullments.

 

[anglolawyer]

Massei and his peers preferred the opinion it was more than one having reviewed all the evidence in front of them.

I dare say, Curatolo didn't have a watch, hence the time adjustment based on circumstantial events.

You are a veritable tsunami of misinformation. Curatolo claimed not only that he had a watch but that he precisely recalled to the minute when he arrived at the square. Galati, in the prosecution appeal from Hellman, laughably called him 'extraordinarily accurate'.

 

[analemma]

Of course, Rudy is scum, but as the forensic police have identified at least three perps, why is it imperative for Rudy to shoulder the blame for all of them, as per US media opinion?

You think that "Poor, Poor, Rudy" is scum?
At least you are probably not Migninni

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Jules Leotard

Of course, Rudy is scum, but as the forensic police have identified at least three perps, why is it imperative for Rudy to shoulder the blame for all of them, as per US media opinion?

No PG commenter has ever given a satisfactory answer to the question of how Rudi could have left so much evidence in Meredith's room and the hallway, and Raffaele and Amanda so little (although many have shown themselves to be as nimble as circus aerialists in avoiding addressing it). By this I mean that the differential of evidence is so huge. Against Raffaele one has the highly disputed bra clasp, and against Amanda nothing.

 

[analemma]

I do not believe for a minute a policeman informed Amanda of all the details of the murder victim that enabled her to tell Mez' friends in vile graphic details how she had died, adding "I could [insert foulmouthed word] kill for a pizza!"

How would you know???????????????????
You act like you know nothing but fatoids and lies until someone shove the factoids back at you and then yuour rwsponse is either NOTHING or "I do not believe for a minute"
It is not as matter of believing for you.

 

[Grinder]

You are a veritable tsunami of misinformation. Curatolo claimed not only that he had a watch but that he precisely recalled to the minute when he arrived at the square. Galati, in the prosecution appeal from Hellman, laughably called him 'extraordinarily accurate'.

Not only that but the "circumstantial evidence" Massei relied on wasn't accurate so it wasn't evidence or circumstantial, it was a fable told by Curatolo and the used by Massei to change a crucial part of C's testimony. His mention of disco buses being there when he left just before midnight (they didn't run at all on the holiday) was used by Massei to move his departure to 11 to 11:30 because that's when the last disco bus, if running, would have left. The midnight time wouldn't work with other circumstantial "evidence" such as the ear witnesses.

Think about it. The judge altered the testimony to fit his theory. The PGP tried to excuse this by saying city buses were running but they don't have the same schedule and weren't what the "reliable" witness testified to.

 

[Grinder]

What or who are the forensic police?

Can anyone tell us how specifically they identified three perps?

 

[Antony]

Of course, Rudy is scum, but as the forensic police have identified at least three perps, why is it imperative for Rudy to shoulder the blame for all of them, as per US media opinion?

The forensic police never "identified three perps". They arrested 3 innocent people on evidence that turned out to be completely wrong, then spent considerable effort on manufacturing evidence against 2 of the innocents, which has since been completely discredited. Can you not understand the difference?

Note, none of the "evidence" to hand at the time of the arrests was ever used at the trial - other than Amanda's statements illegally used to convict her of callunia, in defiance of the ISC ruling that they were inadmissible.

 

[Grinder]

The forensic police never "identified three perps". They arrested 3 innocent people on evidence that turned out to be completely wrong, then spent considerable effort on manufacturing evidence against 2 of the innocents, which has since been completely discredited. Can you not understand the difference?

Note, none of the "evidence" to hand at the time of the arrests was ever used at the trial - other than Amanda's statements illegally used to convict her of callunia, in defiance of the ISC ruling that they were inadmissible.

Didn't they use the staged burglary, lack of consistent alibi, and suspicious behavior in the trial. Someone will bring up the arrest warrant which focused on the statement which couldn't be used but was. They also used Raf's nothing was stolen answer to the police. Oh and the door being locked remark supposedly made by Amanda.

 

[acbytesla]

Of course, Rudy is scum, but as the forensic police have identified at least three perps, why is it imperative for Rudy to shoulder the blame for all of them, as per US media opinion?

But that too is a lie. 6 experts testified in trial and 5 out of 6 said that it could be a single assailant. Why do you keep ignoring this fact? Is it because it doesn't match the story you want to tell?

 

[Numbers]

In his book Honour Bound, Raf himself confirms the defense did not want it tested in case forensics said it was him.

The pillowcase was in the possession of the police and prosecution. It was their obligation to test and evaluate the evidence for the presence of semen and identification of the DNA profile if the stain was indeed biological. They chose not to, or at least to not announce any such test or result.

A defense request to test evidence apparently has no practical effect in Italy, based on this series of trials, since a judge will apparently not utilize the full power supposedly legally his or hers to force the police and prosecution to conduct such a test.

 

[Planigale]

Massei and his peers preferred the opinion it was more than one having reviewed all the evidence in front of them.

I dare say, Curatolo didn't have a watch, hence the time adjustment based on circumstantial events.

But equally the time adjustment could be made to favour the defence. Why should time adjustments only favour the prosecution? The principle of presumption of innocence means when there is a choice of interpretations the one favouring innocence should be preferred. So the correct interpretation if one believes Curatolo is Knox and Sollecito were in the square at the time the murder occurred, he provides an alibi, Curatolo provides evidence of innocence. The prosecution has to somehow say he is right in recalling the presence of Knox and Sollecito (persons who he did not know, had no reason to pay particular attention to, and who he did not identify till months later), but wrong in the time and continued presence of Knox and Sollecito in the square. It is not sufficient to select a few facts, ignore others and say the select few are compatible with guilt when others are incompatible. Innocence needs to be disproved.

 

[acbytesla]

In his book Honour Bound, Raf himself confirms the defense did not want it tested in case forensics said it was him.

But that isn't what they argued in court. Raffaele was understandably concerned that they were manufacturing the case against him. Wouldn't you if you were in his position?

They said those were his shoes that made all those bloody shoe prints. And the day that his father, not the police proved that the shoe prints not only didn't match his shoes but in fact matched Rudy's shoes, they say that they found Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp!

 

[Numbers]

The pillowcase was in the possession of the police and prosecution. It was their obligation to test and evaluate the evidence for the presence of semen and identification of the DNA profile if the stain was indeed biological. They chose not to, or at least to not announce any such test or result.

A defense request to test evidence apparently has no practical effect in Italy, based on this series of trials, since a judge will apparently not utilize the full power supposedly legally his or hers to force the police and prosecution to conduct such a test.

{Highlighting added to quote.}

Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, CPP Article 190, Right to evidence

1. Evidence shall be admitted on request of a party. The judge shall decide without delay by issuing an order, excluding any evidence that is not allowed by law or manifestly superfluous or irrelevant.
2. The cases in which evidence may be admitted ex officio are set by law.
3. Decisions concerning the admission of evidence may be revoked after hearing the parties.

 

[Kaosium]

Massei and his peers preferred the opinion it was more than one having reviewed all the evidence in front of them.

Do you know what that 'evidence' was? He listed the 'evidence' for multiple attackers in his report, right after he had to admit that from the standpoint of forensic science the scene was compatible with a single attacker.

Massei 368-372 PMF translation:

The consultants and forensic scientists have asserted that from the point of view of forensic science, it cannot be ruled out that the author of the injuries could have been a single attacker, because the bruises and the wounds from a pointed and cutting weapon are not in themselves incompatible with the action of a single person. With regard to this, it is nevertheless observed that the contribution of each discipline is specifically in the domain of the specific competence of that discipline, and in fact the consultants and forensic experts concentrated their attention on the aspects specifically belonging to forensic science: time of death, cause of death, elements indicating sexual violence, the injuries present on the body of the victim, and the causes and descriptions of these. The answer given above concerning the possibility of their being inflicted by the action of a single person or by more than one was given in relation to these specific duties and questions, which belong precisely to the domain of forensic science, and the meaning of this answer was thus that there are no scientific elements arising directly from forensic science which could rule out the injuries having been caused by the action of a single person. But, to actually answer this question, of whether the criminal action which determined Meredith's death was the action of one person alone or several people acting together, it is necessary to take into account, not only the contributions of forensic science, but also other elements which have emerged and which are relevant to this point, and to evaluate the situation in a way which takes the comprehensive picture into account.

One first such additional element is what has been said of Meredith's personality and her physical condition; one must take into account that, according to what has already been noted, Meredith, when the attack began, [395] was awake and dressed and not lying on the bed; additional elements are given by the place in which the violent action appears to have taken place, of which the file of photographic documents make it possible to determine, as they represent Meredith's room, with the various pieces of clothing and objects present there.

In fact, putting together the elements mentioned above - including, of course, the forensic observations - it is considered that the injuries and the violence were the result of an action of several people.
A first indication to be taken into account is Meredith's physical build: the photographs of her body and the data of her approximate height and weight reveal a physique with "normotrophic muscular mass and normally distributed subcutaneous fat" (cf. declarations Lalli p. 3), a slim physique which would have permitted Meredith to move with agility. To this must be added the declarations of the parents and the sister of Meredith. Her mother, Arline Carol Mary Kercher, recalled that Meredith had practised football and karate (p. 7 hearing 6 June 2009), and her sister, Stephanie Arline Lara, stated that Meredith also did boxing, if only the once, and that "physically she was very strong" (p. 20, hearing 6 June 2009). Also her father, John Leslie Kercher, declared that his daughter was quite strong and had taken a course in karate (p. 23 hearing 6 June 2009).

It has also been noted that Meredith was not in bed and undressed when the "advances" and the attempts to subject her will commenced. Being still dressed and awake, and since it must be excluded because of what has been said above that the violent action could have taken place with Meredith lying on the bed, it is considered that she, who was sober and fully conscious since no traces indicating either the use of drugs or the abuse of alcohol were found, would have opposed a firm resistance, as she could claim a strong physique, experienced in self-defence by the lessons in karate that she had taken. The signs of this resistance, however, consist in a scream, the scream heard by Nara Capezzali at around 23:30 and by Maria Ilaria Dramis when, having gone to bed at 22:00 pm, she awoke at a later time which she was not able to quantify; they consist also in some tiny defensive wounds: one on the palm of her right hand of a length of .6cm showing a tiny amount of blood; another on the ulnar surface of the first phalange of the second finger of the left hand, also of length .6cm; another on the fingertip of the first finger with a superficial wound of .3cm, and another tiny wound corresponding to the fourth radius.

Compared with these almost nonexistent defensive wounds (cf. report of Dr Lalli, pp. 33, 34, 35 with the relevant photos), there is an injured area which is impressive by the number, distribution and diversity, specifically of the injuries (bruises and wounds) on the face and neck of Meredith.
This disproportion is all the more serious and inexplicable if one considers Meredith's physical and personality characteristics recalled above. It seems inevitable that it must be considered that the criminal action was carried out by several people acting together against Meredith, who, strongly limited in her movements, could not defend herself in any way nor shield herself with her hands in order to avoid a vital part of her body (the neck) being repeatedly struck.

Furthermore, it is impossible to imagine in what way a single person could have removed the clothes that Meredith was wearing (shoes, pants and underwear), and using the violence revealed by the vaginal swab, could have caused the resulting bruises and wounds recalled above, as well as removing her sweatshirt, pulling up her shirt, forcing the bra hooks before tearing and cutting the bra. In order to maintain such a hypothesis (action performed by a single attacker), Professor Introna suggested that Meredith was undressing, and thus when her attacker arrived, she had already removed her own shoes, pants and underwear; the attacker would have come up from behind, thus taking her by surprise. But this reconstruction appears unrealistic, as we have seen. It must also be noted that the representation of Meredith's room with the distribution of the various furnishings and the direction of opening of the door towards the interior of the room (see in particular photos 80, 89, 94) makes it rather improbable that someone entering into that room could have surprised Meredith from behind, especially as in addition, and there seems no reason for this as already noted, [397] she would have had to be (but one cannot see where in the room her attacker would have been able to surprise her from behind) naked from the hips down.

The breaking of the bra alone, from which a small piece of material with hooks (photos 140, 119, 118 and 117) was cut off and thrown to the floor, by an act which was necessarily conducted from behind Meredith (one cannot see in what other way the bra could have been thus forced), requires the following observation: such an action would occupy both hands of the attacker, and thus Meredith would have had her hands free, and in that situation she could have attempted some action in self defence (for example trying to run out of the room and attempt to flee, in other words reacting towards her attacker by getting away from him), whereas in fact there is no trace of such a thing, and it seems inexplicable unless it is admitted that several attackers were present, with a distribution of tasks and roles: either holding Meredith and preventing her from any significant defensive reaction, or actually performing the violent actions (and here one must recall that a biological trace of Rudy was found on one of the cuffs of Meredith's sweatshirt, which appears to be the sign of having gripped Meredith in order to prevent any reaction, any defence). Also the diverse morphology of the injuries and their number and distribution lead one to consider that those participating in this criminal action were more than one. Many injuries appear to have been caused by an activity of restraining; others were inflicted by a pointed and cutting weapon, and are greatly diverse in dimension and harmfulness; furthermore, even when directed at the same part of the body they sometimes attained the victim from the right and sometimes from the left. In fact, in order to maintain the hypothesis of a single attacker it would be necessary to hypothesise that the same person continually modified his own harmful conduct, first exercising a strong manual pressure on the victim, producing bruises, then deciding to seize the knife, thus changing the very nature of the attack (now armed rather than with the hands) and then striking first on the right (4cm wound) and then on the left (8cm deep wound). In the first case, a single blow was apparently halted by the jawbone (4cm deep wound), and instead in the second case, the knife was held inside the victim's neck, after the same knife having been used to run over the surface of the same part of the neck, just a few centimetres below the zone on which the more serious and deeper wound was inflicted. Furthermore, in spite of all these changes in the action of the attacker, Meredith would have remained in the same position, continuing to offer the same part of her body (the neck) to the attacker who would in the meantime have picked up a knife. Yet after the first wound, the normal and instantaneous reaction would have been to protect the wounded part (the neck, precisely, which would have moved away from the possibility of another blow) even running the risk of receiving the blow on another part of the body. Conversely, considering the neck wounds sustained, it must be believed that Meredith remained in the same position, in a standing position, while continuously exposing her neck to the action of the person striking her now on the right and now on the left. Such a situation seems inexplicable if one does not accept the presence of more than one attacker who, holding the girl, strongly restrained her movements and struck her on the right and on the left because of the position of each of the attackers with respect to her, by which it was easier to strike her from that side. One of these attackers was Rudy and the others were those who allowed Rudy to enter the house and who were with him in the house and who, in order to lead the investigations astray, then organised the staging of the broken window and the mess in Romanelli's room: Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, according to all that has already been shown.

 

[Kaosium]

In his book Honour Bound, Raf himself confirms the defense did not want it tested in case forensics said it was him.

That was only for that one time period, they asked for it to be tested at the end of the Massei Trial and then again in their appeals.

 

[Vixen]

But that isn't what they argued in court. Raffaele was understandably concerned that they were manufacturing the case against him. Wouldn't you if you were in his position?

They said those were his shoes that made all those bloody shoe prints. And the day that his father, not the police proved that the shoe prints not only didn't match his shoes but in fact matched Rudy's shoes, they say that they found Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp!

You need only fear the police if you are guilty (maybe in USA this is different, from what we read in the papers).

Raf writes, in Honour Bound
[excerpt re the stain on the pillow under Mez' body]

We thought long and hard about demanding a full analysis, but we did not trust the Polizia Scientifica as far as we could spit and were deathly afraid they might choose to construe that the semen was mine. So we held back.
[excerpt ends]

A very different story from Dan O.'s.

In fact it's rather akin to a kid saying,"It wasn't me who stole the apples" (to a farmer), or a kid with icecream all over its face, before anyone even knew the apples were stolen, or the icecream gone.

A bit like Amanda yelling in the questura, "I hope they catch the [insert foulmouthed epithet] b&stards [note use of plural] that did it!" (i.e., The murder and sexual assault of Mez.)

 

[Strozzi]

This is worth emphasising the measurements made are too good to be true. There is no way these can be real measurements of the bathmat footprint made blind to the suspects measurements. These are fitted to match those of Sollecito. Even his measurements have the length of the ball of the foot differing from Sollecito thus excluding him. His claim of identity is patently false.

The video of Stefanoni collecting the bra clasp and corrupt police forensic examiner Rinaldi's measurements of the bathmat foot smear to falsify it to fit Reffaele's footprint should be used as educational materials to demonstrate police corruption. Unlike DNA data analysis, the untutored casual observer can easily see and understand the police forensic antics.

Any article showing these, whether in a popular magazine for the casual reader or included in a college scientific text or police training materials, should also include some of Vixen's bald false statements so future readers can understand the interpretations Vixen-like commentators give to fabricated evidence in support of the "railroad job from hell". I don't want Vixen to not get credit. Her pen name should be included along with Stefanoni's, et al, so readers don't forget that the corruption goes on even beyond Italy.