Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

There was a human interaction on Raffaele's computer at his apartment at either 12.18pm or 12.26pm so they'd only just got to the cottage by 12.34pm and immediately called Filomena after discovering the broken window.

Dear me, we should keep in mind that there was no way to know Mez was dead behind the door from the open door etc. Now if they knew it would be more likely they would have called first thing.

 

[MichaelB]

New Translation: Testimony of “Internet cafe guy” Spiros Gatsios

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Testimony-of-Spiridon-Gatsios.pdf

 

[Sonia]

First of all it was considerably less that he claimed - read the transcript not True Crime Books. Milan is a big big city but he just found a place with a compromised lock - sure that's mensa logic.

Ah yes he threw away the knife and waited a month to steal one from a nursery.

CT's testimony is highly questionable.

I misremembered the amount Rudy said he paid. Actually, Rudy's whole account of the "South American person" at the train station is very hard to believe. We all know Rudy lies his head off about many things.

I don't think the Milan nursery lock was compromised. I think he picked the door lock and let himself in. It's not that hard. But there's no way to find any of this stuff out unless Rudy sits down with a journalist and unburdens himself. He'll need money when he gets out. What are the chances he'll talk?

There's no way for CT to prove or disprove his story of the break in now, unless Rudy does it for him. But I bet there were more knives and more burglaries in Rudy's one-man crime jag than anyone knows except Rudy.

 

[Sonia]

Noticed no linky and it turns out to come from ole Nina Burleigh in an opinion piece in CNN without quotes. I don't trust her work without corroboration. I've done a quit look and it seems all the references emanated from Nina. I watched the video Del Prato made and she didn't mention this theory.

I do actually believe it may be accurate or close as the place allegedly had been broken into before and thousands in cash stolen which, if a key were used, would cause me to change the locks immediately.

* * *

Nina Burleigh went and used her own resources to pound the pavements, locate all her sources, and interview them for her book. Who is going to corroborate the information she obtained and compiled in the notes for her book? That would entail duplicating her rounds and re-interviewing all the sources. Nobody is going to do that now that the case is over.

She names all the individuals that she interviewed in her notes for each chapter. She couldn't possibly have included all her interview notes and source documents within the scope of that book. When she talks about what she learned from her sources in places like CNN, she's relying on what her sources told her.

I find her work credible, but this is a skeptic's site, so I understand that others cannot or will not trust her. I do wonder why you would question her work.

 

[Antony]

Raf was a fantasist, knife fetishist, who heavily used drugs. Amanda boiled with resentment about Mez pointedly avoiding her on Halloween. Both showed signs of immaturity and irresponsible behaviour.

It's only my theory.

No, it's defamatory fiction. Your assertions are factoids invented by the prosecution in an attempt to give plausibility to their case, and cover up its complete lack of merit.

Your problem is that the bogus evidence brought by the prosecution disappeared in the Hellmann trial, and when Nencini was given a second go, there was nothing left - as will be made clear by the ISC motivations report currently being prepared. All you have left is defamatory personal attacks.

 

[anglolawyer]

English law dates way back to Anglo Saxon law based on eye-for-eye bartering. For example, you take my eye out, I'll take your flock of sheep, etc. Italian law, based on the Inquistion. But nonetheless, the principles have been developed over many centuries.

A respect for the due process of law is therefore, not, "excessive deference to authority".

You claim to be a lawyer, but you do not respect the court?

Oh please. The point (so I thought) was to compare and contrast the information-processing ability of the court on one hand and a discussion forum on the other. The latter has certain advantages which, in this case, resulted in a vastly more accurate approximation than the wildly incorrect one the Italian judiciary have wrestled with for over 7 years.

The Bar Standards are for barristers. It has no connection with Crown Prosecution Service who are the body in England & Wales who decide whether there is a case to answer (cause). This is presented on behalf of the prosecutors for the police.

The barristers enter the picture only once the case is listed.

I suggest you read the code of conduct for crown prosecutors, which you will find here. Check out the general principles (section 2). The CPS follows pretty much the same code as the barristers.

 

[anglolawyer]

Vixen

In one of your early posts, you said:

Do I have an opinion as to guilt or innocence of Amanda & Raf? I have a healthy scepticism of either position. What formed your view of your position?

It's heartening to see how far your thinking has come along after only a few days posting here.

 

[lonepinealex]

Vixen

In one of your early posts, you said:

Do I have an opinion as to guilt or innocence of Amanda & Raf? I have a healthy scepticism of either position. What formed your view of your position?

It's heartening to see how far your thinking has come along after only a few days posting here.

And so surprising too!

 

[anglolawyer]

And so surprising too!

http://youtu.be/LPn0KFlbqX8

 

[RWVBWL]

How do I get to Cesena?

So,
about Kokomani,
here's an interesting tidbit from Perugia Shock that is often overlooked,
I believe that it is FS paraphrazin' what Koko stated to The Massei Court,
for he wrote this in a posting on April 2nd, just a few days after Hekuran Kokomani's testimony in The Massei Trial:
"A tow truck comes forward, inside there's a man, a woman and a boy. They ask Hekuran directions for Cesena. He answers What time is it? He doesn't understand their replay. Probably it was This one is crazy, let's go. How rude, so we will never know exactly what time it was.
* * *

From what I recall,
Koko's cell phone pinged in the area of Miss Kercher's flat around 8:30pm on the night she was raped and murdered.

Odd,
I also recall that this was about the same time Rudy Guede said he was at Meredith's, awaiting his date...

Weren't Koko and Rudy friends?

So why is Koko still hanging around the flat when the tow truck driver and the occupants of the broken down car are there at around 11:00pm?

What was Koko doing all this time,
from 8:30 to 11:00pm, on a chilly Nov. night while his bro was on a date?

 

[carbonjam72]

"Sin City"

So,
about Kokomani,
here's an interesting tidbit from Perugia Shock that is often overlooked,
I believe that it is FS paraphrazin' what Koko stated to The Massei Court,
for he wrote this in a posting on April 2nd, just a few days after Hekuran Kokomani's testimony in The Massei Trial:
"A tow truck comes forward, inside there's a man, a woman and a boy. They ask Hekuran directions for Cesena. He answers What time is it? He doesn't understand their replay. Probably it was This one is crazy, let's go. How rude, so we will never know exactly what time it was.
* * *

From what I recall,
Koko's cell phone pinged in the area of Miss Kercher's flat around 8:30pm on the night she was raped and murdered.

Odd,
I also recall that this was about the same time Rudy Guede said he was at Meredith's, awaiting his date...

Weren't Koko and Rudy friends?

So why is Koko still hanging around the flat when the tow truck driver and the occupants of the broken down car are there at around 11:00pm?

What was Koko doing all this time,
from 8:30 to 11:00pm, on a chilly Nov. night while his bro was on a date?

Good questions Randy.

But isn't it also the case that Meredith's phone was used to try to access her bank (we presume by Rudy) at about 10pm, from outside the gardens where the phone were tossed into (we presume by Rudy) and found the next morning?

If Rudy has already made his getaway, to be at the gardens by around 10pm, then Koko can't be still 'keeping watch' for Rudy, or having some other job to do at the crime scene, if Rudy and Koko were working together that night in some capacity.Right? The fact that Koko is there AFTER Rudy has left, means they were not together that night.

Koko was also, IIRC, a drug dealer for an Albanian gang? Someone's gotta mind the store, and service the customers who come out for some goods on a cold night, no? Maybe the Albanians don't want to hear Koko tell them how cold it is, they just want their money for the goods they front him?

I'm just speculating about what Koko was doing, but if Rudy had already left the scene in a wet, bloody, sweat shirt wrapped mess, its hard to say Koko was "with him" that night, if Koko is still hanging around at the scene being an idiot with tow truck people at 1030 or 11pm.

There's no reason to believe Rudy Guede committed this crime with others, at least no reason based on evidence at the crime scene that I'm aware of. Just the prosecution's claims, based also on nothing.

btw, wasn't there some guy covered with blood yelling at his girlfriend over the phone that same night, that a reporter (was her name Francesca Bene?) tried to write about, and got threatened by Zugarini to stop? Just saying Perugia is apparently a crime ridden locality where all kinds of crap is going on outside in the night time. They're not all in conspiracy. Kind of reminds me of the movie, "Sin City".

 

[Antony]

I am sceptical.

"Sceptical" of the defendants' innocence, but not sceptical of all the defamatory gossip that you are now repeating.

It doesn't mean I can't have a personal theory based on the facts, so far.

There is such a thing as "presumption of innocence", Vixen. Your "personal theories" are based on discredited speculation, not "facts".

Of course, I don't have all the facts, and I was not there at the trial.

Let's see if Marasca - Bruno are any the wiser in their MR.

I predict they will, in your words about the previous ISC's ruling on Hellmann, "shred" the Nencini verdict. Except this time it will be based on real law and not on partisanship. They will, at the very least, state that Nencini's rulings of fact have no evidential basis, so that a guilty verdict was not possible or legal.

Further, I think that their ruling will mirror the Hellmann verdict very closely, and will be seen in effect as a reinstatement - even if technically that is not open to them.

 

[Antony]

Amanda was charged with transporting a knife, so presumably the courts agreed there was probable cause.

The evidence at the Nencini trial was that the knife was not the murder weapon. (*) Without it being the murder weapon, there is no longer any indication that it was ever transported. These charges are now annulled, and since you accept that the defendants are innocent, then you must accept that they also did not transport the knife.

(*) The fact that Nencini went against the evidence to declare it the murder weapon, and even invented Raff's DNA on it, I predict will be in the coming motivations report as one of the reasons for the annulment.

 

[Dan O.]

...

btw, wasn't there some guy covered with blood yelling at his girlfriend over the phone that same night, that a reporter (was her name Francesca Bene?) tried to write about, and got threatened by Zugarini to stop? Just saying Perugia is apparently a crime ridden locality where all kinds of crap is going on outside in the night time. They're not all in conspiracy. Kind of reminds me of the movie, "Sin City".

The story is that on the morning after Meredith's murder he washed up at the water fountain by the news kiosk right in front of Curatolo's bench and asked for change at the kiosk to use the phone. Where was Toto at this time? We see him later that day on the bench away from the kiosk at the edge of the basketball court. And why is it that Rudy who plays basketball on the court doesn't know where this public phone is?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Mixture analysis needs more research

"Defense experts say that although they commend the city and the U.S. attorney’s office for ordering the reviews, their biggest concern is the lack of standardization of how DNA mixtures are interpreted and that there is no universal standard in such interpretations.

“Thus the more important question here is whether DNA mixtures can accurately be interpreted by any forensic laboratory,” said Julia Leighton, general counsel for the District’s Public Defender Service." link to Washington Post article previously cited

It is not entirely clear what the Washington lab is alleged to have done wrong. However, the general point is a good one. DNA mixture interpretation allows for subjectivity to enter into the analysis, at least for the present.
EDT
Besides the problem of analysis of mixtures, it seems to me that in this case and in the Duke lacrosse case, one has the problem of how to interpret the very meaning of having a mixture. The PG position is that the presence of other contributors besides Raffaele to the clasp is irrelevant because his DNA has no business being there. My position is that the presence of DNA from multiple individuals suggests that there are innocent routes of DNA deposition.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda was charged with transporting a knife, so presumably the courts agreed there was probable cause.

The evidence at the Nencini trial was that the knife was not the murder weapon. (*) Without it being the murder weapon, there is no longer any indication that it was ever transported. These charges are now annulled, and since you accept that the defendants are innocent, then you must accept that they also did not transport the knife.

(*) The fact that Nencini went against the evidence to declare it the murder weapon, and even invented Raff's DNA on it, I predict will be in the coming motivations report as one of the reasons for the annulment.

I believe Vixen was trying to argue that "probable cause" equals "judicial fact".

Either that, or he is taking the view of many, that just because someone is charged with a crime (in this case, transporting the knife), the authorities must have at least been justified in suspecting them - even if those suspicions were unreasonable or part of a larger fantasy. Were the authorities justified in assuming a "sex game"? A crime based on one of the three's psychopathology?

 

[Bill Williams]

Vixen

In one of your early posts, you said:

Do I have an opinion as to guilt or innocence of Amanda & Raf? I have a healthy scepticism of either position. What formed your view of your position?

It's heartening to see how far your thinking has come along after only a few days posting here.

Now that the PMF brand is collapsing and most don't dare post their factoids on this side of their iron curtain, Vixen may have gone rogue from them.

The purpose can be gleaned from what is actually posted. In series, he's simply reposting long-since discredited factoids. It's like points from Edward McCall's wiki in miniature.

Speaking of that - did you read Edward McCall's opinion as to why Conti & Vecchiotti are not to be trusted? One element of that mistrust, acc. to EMcM, was that Maresca (the Kercher lawyer) once wondered outloud if C&V were working for the Sollecitos. Wondering, esp. verbal speculation (aka. muttering) within earshot of others is stuff you can take to the bank, apparently.

That struck me as a rather "thin" proof.....

 

[Grinder]

Bill the knife had to be brought from Raf's because it WAS the murder weapon because <Dr. Steffi should be given benefit of doubt as a professional and Mez' DNA was found on it and AK's DNA twice.

How does Marasca get away with defamation or since he is musing about a crime calumnia.

 

[Bill Williams]

Bill the knife had to be brought from Raf's because it WAS the murder weapon because <Dr. Steffi should be given benefit of doubt as a professional and Mez' DNA was found on it and AK's DNA twice.

How does Marasca get away with defamation or since he is musing about a crime calumnia.

Ok, sorry, I get confused. I'd thought it was the defendants who were accorded this benefit.

I'd read that in one of the True Crime books!

 

[Bill Williams]

Here's the difference between die-hard guilters (now behind the Iron Curtain) and the rest of the world. For DHG, it is Amanda, Amanda, Amanda, Amanda, Amanda, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil, psychopathology, evil.

For the rest of the world, this was found by analemma on IIP:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/05/07/the-ritual-sacrifice-of-amanda-knox/

From the very first, I’ve found this case more than perplexing. As a clinical supervisor who specializes in assessing complex mental health cases and offering feedback and direction to therapists, I’m accustomed to looking at the big picture and sorting out what may need course correction in the therapeutic approach.

In this legal case I see what psychotherapists call “countertransference” — an emotional reaction that belongs more to the practitioner than the client. In effect, due to social, cultural and religious predispositions, the prosecution concocted the following: two middle-class college kids without any criminal records or history of mental illness, who, in the first week of young romance, smoke some dope, watch a movie and then decide to hook up with a drifter they’ve never met before to have a “sex game” that then leads to extreme savagery. With that story having run its course as a fiction, another judge has decided it was arguments over rent money and household hygiene that led to murderous rage.

In short, it's no wonder guilters/haters focus on Amanda. The rest of the world is wondering about Mignini's mental health!