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Skeptics and GMO Labeling

Chipotle switched from GMO soybean oil to non GMO sunflower oil. The sunflower oil is a herbicide resistant sunflower that was derived from conventional breeding. It is tolerant of the herbicide imazamox. 144 weed species have evolved resistance to imazamox vs, 28 weed species have evolved resistance to glyphosate.

But its non GMO.

Chipotle still sells soda sweetened with high fructose corn syrup which is almost certainly GMO derived.Not that you could ever tell, but hey thats not the point, is it?

And then there is the cheese, is it made from GMO rennet?

They made a tweet today that said "@onetruecathal @kevinfolta neither. It's an FPC rennet that is not GM." But FPC rennet is derived from GMOs. I think they are trying to weasel out of that one.
 
Chipotle switched from GMO soybean oil to non GMO sunflower oil. The sunflower oil is a herbicide resistant sunflower that was derived from conventional breeding. It is tolerant of the herbicide imazamox. 144 weed species have evolved resistance to imazamox vs, 28 weed species have evolved resistance to glyphosate.

But its non GMO.

Chipotle still sells soda sweetened with high fructose corn syrup which is almost certainly GMO derived.Not that you could ever tell, but hey thats not the point, is it?

And then there is the cheese, is it made from GMO rennet?

Or, as PT Barnum's sign said: "THIS WAY TO THE EGRESS". Everyone wants to see an egress. :cool:
 
They made a tweet today that said "@onetruecathal @kevinfolta neither. It's an FPC rennet that is not GM." But FPC rennet is derived from GMOs. I think they are trying to weasel out of that one.

Thanks, I missed that.

GMO concerns about FPC are few compared to those directed at genetically modified crops. Recent campaigns in Vermont, a major cheese-producing state that just passed a GMO-labeling law did not address the use of FPC to make cheese; dairy products are simply exempt. FPC is not allowed in organic cheese based on the certification rules in the United States, Europe and Canada, providing an option for consumers who wish to avoid FPC.

FPC is an important but little-known success of biotechnology. Cheese-makers still use animal rennet, but to a large extent, FPC has removed the need for animal rennet in the production of cheese.

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.o...hat-even-die-hard-gmo-opponents-eat-and-love/



FPC which wouldn't exist without GMO technology is deemed to be non GMO (by Chipotle anyway) because..umm...because we said so, and there is no better alternative.

In the end, what this means is that most cheese in North America is made from vegetarian friendly but still animal originated, GMO derived FPC rennet. And that while use of this type of rennet is banned in GMO-free European countries doesn’t mean the cheese we buy from those countries are necessarily FPC free. To quote one Danish expert “We can’t use FPC rennet in Denmark for our own domestic cheese or cheese make for other European countries which have banned its use. We only use it for cheese we export to North America. .”Why? Because again, it is a cheaper and more consistently available form of rennet.

The whole thing is hilarious.

http://www.fifthtown.ca/artisan_cheese/editorial/the_importance_of_knowing_your_rennet/
 
Thanks, I missed that.



http://www.geneticliteracyproject.o...hat-even-die-hard-gmo-opponents-eat-and-love/



FPC which wouldn't exist without GMO technology is deemed to be non GMO (by Chipotle anyway) because..umm...because we said so, and there is no better alternative.



The whole thing is hilarious.

http://www.fifthtown.ca/artisan_cheese/editorial/the_importance_of_knowing_your_rennet/

FPC is also "higher quality" than animal rennet (at least according to wikipedia), I guess they save the good GMO stuff for us Americans with our sophisticated and cultured palate. The whole thing is ridiculous. I've even people get bent out of shape that their cast iron was seasoned with GMO oil. Its superstitious behavior.
 
FPC is also "higher quality" than animal rennet (at least according to wikipedia), I guess they save the good GMO stuff for us Americans with our sophisticated and cultured palate. The whole thing is ridiculous. I've even people get bent out of shape that their cast iron was seasoned with GMO oil. Its superstitious behavior.

This is why we can't have nice things. :mad:
 
Chipotle still sells soda sweetened with high fructose corn syrup which is almost certainly GMO derived.

Well seeing as how corn as a plant species is 100% artificial...

GMO Aversion is just another form of "Where I am Now Ludditism." Mankind has been tinkering with and improving plants to make them better since literally before history.
 
Well seeing as how corn as a plant species is 100% artificial...

GMO Aversion is just another form of "Where I am Now Ludditism." Mankind has been tinkering with and improving plants to make them better since literally before history.

All of our food is genetically modified the only question is do we do it the long way by selecting for the attributes we want or directly manipulate the genes.
 
All of our food is genetically modified the only question is do we do it the long way by selecting for the attributes we want or directly manipulate the genes.

I've been trying to tell my idiot hippie friends this for years.

Personally, I think their objections to GMO's boil down to "someone's making too much money from it".
 
Yeah there's no wild corn. Wild potatoes are pretty poisonous. There's not wild orange carrots. There's no wild oranges.

All of those things; corn, edible potatoes, orange carrots, oranges... all man made.

The normal caterwaul is "But GMO is different!"

No it's not.
 
I've been trying to tell my idiot hippie friends this for years.

Personally, I think their objections to GMO's boil down to "someone's making too much money from it".
I personally think the main objection is to glyphosate resistant and Bt GMOs and somehow the label "GMO" developed a bad connotation which ruined GE technology in general. Although you do have a point about "someone's making too much money from it". Monsanto did use RR tech and the profits derived to aggressively dominate the markets they are in. That obviously generated a whole lot of ill will.
 
Oh God Monsanto. Jesus this has become such a boogeyman. You can't have a discussion about GMOs without some hippie going "But... but MONSANTO!!!!"
 
Monsanto did use RR tech and the profits derived to aggressively dominate the markets they are in. That obviously generated a whole lot of ill will.

Dominate? Then they suck at it! If they are even the biggest player (I don't think they are) it's not by much.
 
Oh God Monsanto. Jesus this has become such a boogeyman. You can't have a discussion about GMOs without some hippie going "But... but MONSANTO!!!!"
First off I am no hippie. Secondly Monsanto is the company that generated their own bad reputation and for good reason. The fact that Monsanto's poor reputation rubbed off onto GMOs in general is actually quite sad. Only a very naive person would deny that is the primary origin of the anti-GMO sentiment though. Monsanto is bad--->Monsanto is the largest producer of crop GMOs--->therefore we can't trust GMOs.

I personally don't agree with that logic. But I am not so naive as to ignore that's one of the primary drivers of the anti-GMO sentiment.
 
I personally think the main objection is to glyphosate resistant and Bt GMOs and somehow the label "GMO" developed a bad connotation which ruined GE technology in general.

Which is funny. You talked about traits that would be useful to organic farmers in a hypothetical organic certification that allowed GE crops (supposedly, the original proposed National Organic Program rules allowed them --but, obviously, that didn't work out). What could better starter trait* than BT? It can (and does) dramatically cut down the use of insecticides which should be a goal of organic agriculture.

I like a quote by Karl Haro von Mogel when he commented on an article at Biofortified:
Moreover, it is becoming increasingly common in organic agriculture to inject LIVE Bt bacteria INTO the plants to control the same pests. In sweet corn, this involves injecting Bt bacteria suspended in oil into the developing ear. No doubt, eaters of fresh sweet corn will be exposed to Bt. Here is a PDF file at Johnny’s Selected Seeds that explains the practice.
Indeed, organic researchers are trying to put live Bt bacteria in more crops than just sweet corn. I attended an organic ag lunch discussion where a researcher was talking about injecting Bt bacteria into the stems of squash plants, to get them living inside the vascular tissue of the plants to protect them from insect pests. They complained that it is difficult to inject all the plants individually. So I suggested, “why not fill a shotgun shell with tiny beads coated with live bacteria and shoot all the plants at once?” They laughed, but loved the idea. I missed the opportunity for the perfect followup: “Wait, why not coat the beads with just the Bt gene so the plants produce it themselves?” (Because that would be genetic engineering!) It is simply amazing that two processes could be so alike, yet so mutually exclusive.

Note that the link to the PDF file is obsolete but that a file that is probably similar can be found at http://www.johnnyseeds.com/assets/information/112082825828760.pdf


* I understand that, obviously, one can come up with better traits than that eventually. Transforming C3 plats into C4 plants could be one example. Making nitrogen fixers out of plants that aren't could be another. Making perennials out of plants that are currently grown as annuals could be another (though that can have bad implications for rotations). I´m sure you can think of other. One could throw in biofortification but that's really more for the consumer.
 
Which is funny. You talked about traits that would be useful to organic farmers in a hypothetical organic certification that allowed GE crops (supposedly, the original proposed National Organic Program rules allowed them --but, obviously, that didn't work out). What could better starter trait* than BT? It can (and does) dramatically cut down the use of insecticides which should be a goal of organic agriculture.

I like a quote by Karl Haro von Mogel when he commented on an article at Biofortified:


Note that the link to the PDF file is obsolete but that a file that is probably similar can be found at http://www.johnnyseeds.com/assets/information/112082825828760.pdf


* I understand that, obviously, one can come up with better traits than that eventually. Transforming C3 plats into C4 plants could be one example. Making nitrogen fixers out of plants that aren't could be another. Making perennials out of plants that are currently grown as annuals could be another (though that can have bad implications for rotations). I´m sure you can think of other. One could throw in biofortification but that's really more for the consumer.
I use Bt occasionally. Not every year, but when I get a serious infestation that's going to cause a yield reduction or crop failure. I have no problem with cry toxins, I seriously doubt they are harmful to humans in any way what so ever. The reason I have no interest in Bt crops is because I already have Bt and would hope it isn't overused, resulting in Bt resistant pests.

Absolutely I can think of better uses and you touched on one. Perennial wheat! Plant the right mix of perennials, and if wheat is one that goes to seed in it's own season being dominant, then you could probably harvest wheat in it's season and pasture livestock the rest of the year. Maybe even a blend of a c3 winter wheat and a c4 summer wheat both perennial and get two wheat harvests from a pasture that also had a blend of low growing legumes and other forbs. And a good blend would eliminate the need for any agrochemicals at all!:D Two grain crops and pasture forage all from the same acre! Actually the potential is almost unlimited for GE technology IMHO. But as I have stated before, those kinds of GMOs have yet to be created. It's easy to understand why. A perennial that doesn't need agrochemicals means you get 1 sale of seed. Far different than 1 or more sales of seed each year combined with locking in a chemical herbicide sale on top of that. It's the business model that determines the need for the GMO, not the farmer's needs or the public's needs.
 
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Do you have a serious answer? Keep in mind that the EU requires labeling and it works just fine.

It kind of is a serious answer. I think we've ceded too much power to the food woos like Vani Hari, "the Food Babe".

Here's the proof that this is nonsense: 80% of people polled think that food that contains DNA should be labeled.

Are Americans really dumb enough to worry about food containing DNA?

A recent university survey found that 82% of Americans support the mandatory labeling of genetically engineered food. No big surprise there; a perennial argument by advocates for labeling is that most people want things that way. (Labeling initiatives were rejected by voters in California and Oregon.)

But here’s another interesting finding of the poll, one of a monthly series of so-called Food Demands Surveys by Oklahoma State University: Almost as many Americans, 80%, support “mandatory labels on food containing DNA”—which all food has because it all comes from living things with genetic material.

I don't really care if the system "works fine" in Europe, I'm opposed to it on principle. Let the "GMO-free" products put the label on their products if they want to. That would work just as well if your goal is to distinguish one from another. How can you tell if a food is not "organic"? Anything that isn't labeled "Organic" on the package or where it is being sold in the case of produce, isn't (according to whatever definition they use in the case of food). You can just assume that because if it did qualify you can bet the people selling it would want to advertise that fact to consumers. The same goes for GMOs. Just assume that everything not labeled "GMO-free" contains GMOs.
 

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