What to do about all these people fleeing Libya, Syria, etc.?

[angrysoba]

So what is done with them when they are rescued?

This is a massive problem. I am sure almost all of these a good people, but amongst these there are some vile human beings, I read about one ship where some of the Muslims on board thought it was ok to throw the Christians over board..... and they are coming to live in Western countries. That's concerning.

When I see these stories told about individuals, I always want them to reach their destination and get the better life they wanted... But to think of just the sheer numbers off poor, unskilled, uneducated (which I'm sure make up a majority) the consequences scare me. I can see why the rise of anti-immigration parties has taken root in Europe.

This article seems to be quite good on this. Short answer is that Italy's somewhat overwhelmed trying to look after asylum seekers and wants the rest of the EU to agree to take in a proportion of the migrants.

I suggest that countries that want to be in the EU and NATO should take in a certain number and put them in the army to fight battles that the EU and NATO are interested in so that the migrants can earn their citizenship in the way that prospective Roman citizens did. Or something.

 

[Giz]

Because you're sending them back to the very thing they're fleeing from.

If we accept all the refugees that don't like their country being a hellhole, then their country is bound to remain a hellhole. Better to send them back with a civics 101 textbook and/or AK as appropriate. Then they can try and change their own country for the better.

 

[Caper]

This article seems to be quite good on this. Short answer is that Italy's somewhat overwhelmed trying to look after asylum seekers and wants the rest of the EU to agree to take in a proportion of the migrants.

I suggest that countries that want to be in the EU and NATO should take in a certain number and put them in the army to fight battles that the EU and NATO are interested in so that the migrants can earn their citizenship in the way that prospective Roman citizens did. Or something.

I think Australia has it right on this. Just don't allow a single boat to get to shore. It won't take long for the deaths to stop.

 

[dudalb]

I think Australia has it right on this. Just don't allow a single boat to get to shore. It won't take long for the deaths to stop.

Won't stop the deaths, just move them back to the country the refugees are fleeing from.
Most of them are'nt white, so it really does'nt matter.....

 

[carlosy]

I think Australia has it right on this. Just don't allow a single boat to get to shore. It won't take long for the deaths to stop.

Are they rescuing survivors from sunken ships?

 

[fuelair]

Where are they going when they get to Europe?

That boat that sank had 900 people on it (or close). How many boats make it that are not noticed? Or are they all noticed?

It is a very, very hard question. The west can absorb a million refugees.... But there is a billion behind them.

And so many people cannot get that through their heads.

 

[Caper]

Are they rescuing survivors from sunken ships?

They are not coming. What is the sense if there is no potential for pay off?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

The said vacuum was going to happen anyway. The people aren't fleeing a society that failed when the despot was removed. They're fleeing a society that failed under the despot, his fall only made the fall visible, that is all.

The best thing we could do for them, in theory, is sweatshops, China style. They would bring something useful (cheap labor), and in return they would be able to live reasonably free lives.

It's either that, or nation building - like what failed in Iraq. The West doesn't have the willpower for that. It might or might not have the resources, but it has other concerns as well. Plus such operations are routinely decried as colonialism a few years down the line, plus many actors are deeply committed to sabotaging such actions, so there is exactly zero motivation for it.

Modify the relevant laws and introduce sweatshops for migrants that will produce goods currently imported from east Asia. That's the best that can be done.

McHrozni

If European countries allow these people in, there will be millions of them, and their ranks will include thousands of jihadis and incipient terrorists, who are impossible to spot. I would not admit any of them.

 

[rwguinn]

Snicker. Aren't some you you the folls.who continually condemn the US southwestern states for bellyakin about the Illegals.coming.over.the Rio Grande and the Sonora Desert?

 

[Caper]

And so many people cannot get that through their heads.

I don't think so either. There was a woman on a bbc podcast I listened to this morning... and god bless her, she is working for people that need help. But she kept going on about more legal channels needing to be created. That's fine. But it solves nothing. Create room for 5 million to come safely and legally, there are millions more ready and set to fill the illegal more dangerous route.

 

[dudalb]

But this does point out why the "Let the countries in the Mid East destroy each other and it won't effect us" point of view simply won't work.

 

[commandlinegamer]

Was going to post something sarcastic here, but I just don't feel up to it tonight.

 

[angrysoba]

But this does point out why the "Let the countries in the Mid East destroy each other and it won't effect us" point of view simply won't work.

Not sure whose point of view that is, but if - as argued above - these regimes would inevitably fall anyway, it makes little sense squandering thousands of lives and trillions achieving the same effect.

 

[arthwollipot]

If we accept all the refugees that don't like their country being a hellhole, then their country is bound to remain a hellhole. Better to send them back with a civics 101 textbook and/or AK as appropriate. Then they can try and change their own country for the better.

Lol. Oh wait, you're serious?

I think Australia has it right on this. Just don't allow a single boat to get to shore. It won't take long for the deaths to stop.

Yeah, that worked real well for us.

 

[McHrozni]

If European countries allow these people in, there will be millions of them, and their ranks will include thousands of jihadis and incipient terrorists, who are impossible to spot. I would not admit any of them.

The question is what we can do for them. Of course there is the option of not doing anything, which could well be the best for us.

The problem is they will never blame Jihadis for their suffering, although it is primarily their fault. They will blame western imperialism (que?), Israel (?????) and war in Iraq and in Syria and whatnot. But never their own, making the problem worse over time.

McHrozni

 

[Caper]

Yeah, that worked real well for us.

It has right? Hasn't it worked exactly as intended?

 

[Darat]

This is nothing to do with religion, it's about extreme poverty and not being able to see a future for you and your family and the human capacity to hope for a better future. If you want to talk about ideology in regards to this problem it is the ideology of the "free market" you need to address as that is what causes the deaths, i.e. people wanting to make money and a demand for their services.

 

[Caper]

This is nothing to do with religion, it's about extreme poverty and not being able to see a future for you and your family and the human capacity to hope for a better future. If you want to talk about ideology in regards to this problem it is the ideology of the "free market" you need to address as that is what causes the deaths, i.e. people wanting to make money and a demand for their services.

It has something to do with religion when the Muslims decide to throw the Christians off the boat.

 

[Information Analyst]

Note that they are frequently fleeing into death. Likely a more certain one.

Not necessarily. This case was highlighted by the BBC this morning. When interviewed, the aunt clarified that this young man - who came from a well-off family in the Gambia - was not fleeing any danger. Rather, his desire to get to Europe illegally put him in danger that eventually cost him his life.

 

[Information Analyst]

The other question I have is this. These people are paying thousands of dollars to make this journey. Either they have it saved or a relative in the west is pledging it for them. I am wondering this. Why can't they just fly to the west if they have that kind of money? Surely there is an airport in Nigeria and Nigerians are allowed to vacation to Italy..... No?

Well, I work with a few Nigerians, some of whom regularly visit the country to see family.

Anyone flying into the UK without the necessary visas will be nabbed by the Border Agency and eventually deported. Some destroy their identity documents in transit, in order to try to claim that they come from somewhere less safe that they shouldn't be deported back to.