Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[carbonjam72]

.
I also think it is strange that blood was not found at Rudi's place, unless Rudy cleaned up downstairs before going home. There was blood there, wet sandals, a chair by the shower, some kind of curtain/rod on the floor in the kitchen, maybe a knife print according to RWVBWL and other strange things. I wonder if Rudy cleaned up and borrowed some clean clothes? I suspect Rudy knew that the boys were all gone for the weekend.

Cody
.

I thought they found Meredith's blood at Rudy's place? In drain pipe?

 

[Dan O.]

I think he goes on to say something about recording his later spontaneous convo with AK meaning writing it down.

Grinder, do you think these are the words of a 20 year old Amanda Knox, dictated without prompting or questioning over a span of time from 03:00 till 05:45?

I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi where I work periodically.
...​

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder, do you think these are the words of a 20 year old Amanda Knox, dictated without prompting or questioning over a span of time from 03:00 till 05:45?

I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi where I work periodically.
...​

That highlighted sentence shows how fatigued the cops were.... if they'd had their wits about them, they would not have let that sentence lead - it is obviously meant to cover the problem with the whole thing - that it is NOT spontaneous, at least not from Knox.

Knox had absolutely no idea what was at stake, legally speaking - as per the pedigree of that statement.... only someone who would find themselves with the unenviable task of trying to take this into court would care about it - at all.

No one says, in a foreign language, "I wish to relate spontaneously what happened," unless at the very least - prompted. Either that, or Knox is more helpful that even rumoured:

AK: "Look, I want to make sure my statements make it into court, because I need them to be as damning as possible. So, help me out here, how do I need to phrase this?"

GM: "Well, your statements need to be spontaneous, they cannot be 'led' or coached at all."

AK: "OK, what if I just start writing, but I'll make sure some future judge completely understands that these are my spontaneous, uncoerced, top-of-my-head thoughts as this time."

GM: "I cannot help you there - you understand I am sure. If I tell you to start your statement with the fact that everything you say is spontaneous, then that ruins the whole exercise."

AK: "No problem. I'm here to help. I'll just, then, start off that way. But if you don't mind, what's the Italian rendering of "spontaneous" that I need to use?"

GM: "Oh right, we're talking English here in this little re-creation. The phrase that would be helpful - but be aware I cannot tell you this, it must be your own - is, 'Voglio riferire spontaneamente quello che e successo perche....'...."

AK: "Ok, stop! I got this......"​

That about sums it up.

 

[Dan O.]

At 9:50 Mignini says he recorded what she said in her spontaneous statement to him. He uses the same term, at least as translated.

In an earlier CNN interview, Mignini says "She then repeated [her story] to the interpreter, who was Mrs. Donnino, I remember there was a police woman officer who wrote the statement down [verbalizzava]".

So, what was Mignini recording?

 

[Dan O.]

.
I also think it is strange that blood was not found at Rudi's place, unless Rudy cleaned up downstairs before going home. There was blood there, wet sandals, a chair by the shower, some kind of curtain/rod on the floor in the kitchen, maybe a knife print according to RWVBWL and other strange things. I wonder if Rudy cleaned up and borrowed some clean clothes? I suspect Rudy knew that the boys were all gone for the weekend.

Cody
.

Do you pay attention to any of the responses to your posts?

Rudy cleaned up first in the small bathroom next to Meredith's bedroom and then according to Rudy's own statements in the common washroom in the basement of his apartment.

At a time when Rudy cannot know if the police have witnesses spotting Rudy heading home from the cottage, Rudy declares that he was wearing a yellow sweatshirt tied around his waist to cover his wet pants. He would not have needed to do this if he had changed pants downstairs before heading home.

Perhaps you can explain how Rudy managed to fit through the bars on the downstairs bathroom window where the blood trail continues from outside to inside.

Why haven't the police questioned the last person known to have been in the downstairs apartment? Perhaps they were watering the plants and trying to tend to the injured cat.

The curtain in the downstairs kitchen comes off the door when a stupid cop puts her foot through the glass window.

 

[Grinder]

When he says "recorded" in Italian, is he saying transcribed or audiorecorded?

Was his "recording" made available to the defense? Is it part of the file?

If he did record it, where did he get the budget funds?

Strozzi, Grinder isn't really an Italian name. The translation uses recorded both for the police and for Mignini's interview with AK. I'm thinking that recorded means transcribed in both cases.

 

[anglolawyer]

Strozzi, Grinder isn't really an Italian name. The translation uses recorded both for the police and for Mignini's interview with AK. I'm thinking that recorded means transcribed in both cases.

Even in English 'recorded' does not necessarily mean tape-recorded.

 

[Grinder]

That guys translations aren't accurate.

thanks do you have specific significant corrections?

.
Hi Grinder.

I know you are referring to Stefanoni's (or was it Commodi's) statement, but I think float is a better and more accurate word, which is probably why she used 'fly' instead.

Most dust floating in the air is not visible to humans under normal lighting conditions, however it does become visible when a beam of sunlight pierces a darkened room, as most of us have observed. There is often lots of it, at least in my home.

Cody
.

absolutely float is better. my point is how small the amounts we are talking about are. mostly referring to the pgp always repeating the meme that it doesn't fly

.
I also think it is strange that blood was not found at Rudi's place, unless Rudy cleaned up downstairs before going home. There was blood there, wet sandals, a chair by the shower, some kind of curtain/rod on the floor in the kitchen, maybe a knife print according to RWVBWL and other strange things. I wonder if Rudy cleaned up and borrowed some clean clothes? I suspect Rudy knew that the boys were all gone for the weekend.

Cody
.

even with a cleaning not leaving any blood at home is somewhat odd. of course it was the ple looking

Grinder, do you think these are the words of a 20 year old Amanda Knox, dictated without prompting or questioning over a span of time from 03:00 till 05:45?

I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi where I work periodically.
...​

no. i was only addressing the meaning of recording as used in the video

In an earlier CNN interview, Mignini says "She then repeated [her story] to the interpreter, who was Mrs. Donnino, I remember there was a police woman officer who wrote the statement down [verbalizzava]".

So, what was Mignini recording?

as i said i was only discussing the meaning of recording as used by mignini. i am saying he didn't mean electronic recording

Do you pay attention to any of the responses to you posts?

Rudy cleaned up first in the small bathroom next to Meredith's bedroom and then according to Rudy's own statements in the common washroom in the basement of his apartment.

At a time when Rudy cannot know if the police have witnesses spotting Rudy heading home from the cottage, Rudy declares that he was wearing a yellow sweatshirt tied around his waist to cover his wet pants. He would not have needed to do this if he had changed pants downstairs before heading home.

Perhaps you can explain how Rudy managed to fit through the bars on the downstairs bathroom window where the blood trail continues from outside to inside.

Why haven't the police questioned the last person known to have been in the downstairs apartment? Perhaps they were watering the plants and trying to tend to the injured cat.

The curtain in the downstairs kitchen comes off the door when a stupid cop puts her foot through the glass window.

without weighing in on the downstairs issue, it would seem very difficult for him to not leave some blood at his place. he tossed the shoes in germany but what about his clothes and the knife? i wonder if the ple checked garbage cans in the area.

 

[Grinder]

Even in English 'recorded' does not necessarily mean tape-recorded.

i was answering this:

Mignini was not referring to later when he met with AK. I believe Mignini referred to AK having said sufficient compromising information that the recording was suspended. Is he deliberately referring to a police recording which was stopped at that point? Maybe Mignini knows something we don't about a recording being stopped.

This is something I hope an Italian-speaker will listen to to see if the English translation is correct.

 

[anglolawyer]

i was answering this:

Mignini was not referring to later when he met with AK. I believe Mignini referred to AK having said sufficient compromising information that the recording was suspended. Is he deliberately referring to a police recording which was stopped at that point? Maybe Mignini knows something we don't about a recording being stopped.

This is something I hope an Italian-speaker will listen to to see if the English translation is correct.

Yes, I know. I was agreeing with the point I thought you were making.

 

[Grinder]

Yes, I know. I was agreeing with the point I thought you were making.

You were agreeing? Great and happy football weekend to you.

 

[MichaelB]

This was on IA the other day about this:

This is an example of how inaccurate Eric Paroissien's translations are. Mignini actually says "il verbale della Polizia viene sospesa", which in the context means "the Police's [written] record [of the questioning] is suspended". I've added words implicitly implied in square brackets. This is actually a strange way of saying it, because to my knowledge the Police did not make a written record/document of the questioning - so perhaps he meant to say that the S.I.T. (Sommaria Informazione Testimoniale) = questioning was suspended, or maybe the word "verbale" is used in these situations to describe S.I.T.'s. What is certain is that it does not mean audio or video recording. Mignini then goes on to explain how when there is a development in the investigation of this type (Amanda confessing), the questioning is stopped and they must call the magistrate.

 

[codyjuneau]

.
I also think it is strange that blood was not found at Rudi's place, unless Rudy cleaned up downstairs before going home. There was blood there, wet sandals, a chair by the shower, some kind of curtain/rod on the floor in the kitchen, maybe a knife print according to RWVBWL and other strange things. I wonder if Rudy cleaned up and borrowed some clean clothes? I suspect Rudy knew that the boys were all gone for the weekend.

Cody
.

Do you pay attention to any of the responses to your posts?
Rudy cleaned up first in the small bathroom next to Meredith's bedroom and then according to Rudy's own statements in the common washroom in the basement of his apartment.

At a time when Rudy cannot know if the police have witnesses spotting Rudy heading home from the cottage, Rudy declares that he was wearing a yellow sweatshirt tied around his waist to cover his wet pants. He would not have needed to do this if he had changed pants downstairs before heading home.

Perhaps you can explain how Rudy managed to fit through the bars on the downstairs bathroom window where the blood trail continues from outside to inside.

Why haven't the police questioned the last person known to have been in the downstairs apartment? Perhaps they were watering the plants and trying to tend to the injured cat.

The curtain in the downstairs kitchen comes off the door when a stupid cop puts her foot through the glass window.

.
Re the highlighted sentence, is it supposed to be a rhetorical question Dan? If not, please elaborate so that I can answer it properly.

Cody
.

 

[Dan O.]

Have these questions not all been asked and answered before? Will these answers be ignored and the same question asked again in the future?

 

[Grinder]

Have these questions not all been asked and answered before? Will these answers be ignored and the same question asked again in the future?

I sure they will be. I know your organized records make it frustrating when some of us go over things we should have down pat.

On your timeline you didn't give a best guess for when Mez had her last meal. I'd put it at 6:30 with a range from 5:30 to 7:30.

As we have discussed many times that time along with Lalli's digestive analysis added to phone activity that TOD was no later than 9:45-9:55.

 

[Dan O.]

I don't give guesses in my timeline. I provide times of evidence based events along with the source or documentation of that evidence. The evidence for the time of Meredith's last meal is in the testimony of the English girls. It should also be in Massei. When I have time I may revishissed update this section.

 

[carbonjam72]

I don't give guesses in my timeline. I provide times of evidence based events along with the source or documentation of that evidence. The evidence for the time of Meredith's last meal is in the testimony of the English girls. It should also be in Massei. When I have time I may revishissed update this section.

Hope I'm not being dense here, but the relevant issue is when Meredith began eating, not when she finished, right? Question is when did the girls start eating?

 

[Grinder]

I don't give guesses in my timeline. I provide times of evidence based events along with the source or documentation of that evidence. The evidence for the time of Meredith's last meal is in the testimony of the English girls. It should also be in Massei. When I have time I may revishissed update this section.

Times range from 5:30 to 6:30 per the girls IIRC

 

[codyjuneau]

Have these questions not all been asked and answered before? Will these answers be ignored and the same question asked again in the future?

.
I still do not understand Dan. You specifically said 'Do you pay attention to any of the responses to your posts?' What posts did I make that I did not pay attention to?

In a more general sense, I do not automatically agree with the opinions people express in their posts, whether it is in response to one of my posts or not.

For example, in your reply to my first post, you state that:

"The curtain in the downstairs kitchen comes off the door when a stupid cop puts her foot through the glass window"

I do not agree with this, and I have commented on it before. In the video taken of the lady breaking into the cottage's downstair apartment (police_video_november_2_2007.mp4) at time: 6:51 to 6:54, there is a blurry view through the downstair door's window before the lady starts kicking at the window. In that view there appears to be the colored fabric of the curtain already on the floor. It compares very closely to the view at 6:57 after the window has been broken. IMO.

Cody
.

 

[Magister]

We discussed the downstairs apartment back in February and satisfactory answers were not forthcoming.

To recap....

1. Human blood was found downstairs (per Bongiorno)
2. Someone entered with a key that night and locked the door on leaving
-we know Giacomo asked Meredith to water the plants.
-there were conflicting reports that the downstairs keys were found either in Amanda's room or hanging up in the hall.
-Amanda has confirmed she was unaware that there were any spare keys to the downstairs flat.
3. The curtain on the floor could have been from Giacomo's room
-look at the silvery coloured pieces on the floor and the bloodstains in his room on the video.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-evidence-downstairs-apartment/
4. Has it been confirmed that it was the police who kicked down Giacomo's door?
5. The blood on Stefano's bed and duvet were excessive for a cat with a wounded ear. See also Marco Marzan's testimony.
6. Blood on a lightswitch
7. Clothes lying in disarray on the floor in the sitting room area.

Growing marijuana is/was illegal so the police had a hold over the boys.
None of them has spoken out since so we don't know if a pair of trousers/pants were found to be missing.